Comic for August 21, 2021: Detritus vs Stone

[Technic[Bot]]

Trace should have his own link into the estates magic. The backdoor worked for him and he had to allow the others to enter the estate to begin with.
The question is, can Trace muster the willpower to overpower Detritus?
Does he even realize that this might be possible?

To questions 2 and 3, Yes, and No. Trace was the Grand Templar for a reason. Not just his magical potential, but his skills as well. It's just that now, he's at the level of "slightly capable apprentice", and lost most of his memories.

As for that first one...
I personally think any part of that link that would be helpful here would have been an active part; one that he would have to manually trigger, or focus on specifically, which he kinda can't do in his current, good state.

The backdoor you mentioned (which I assume was when he used the gate key), seems to be a more passive connection. It seems that anyone he thinks is okay to enter, is okay to enter. Of course, since Group B entered the Estate through there and not through the front door, it's possible that it bypasses the security systems since it would only ever be activated by Trace and nobody else. Or it could be like the vampires in Buffy The Vampire Slayer, and later Angel, where he only has to say it once, and that's that.

But either way, I'll put forth Rose's quote, "I still can't outright attack you", meaning that even Rose, with NO RESTRICTIONS, is incapable of using the security systems to cause harm. And that's DEFINITELY the Nora way of doing things, since she's probably one of the main architects of those magic systems. She was always more of a trickster than a killer, anyway, and I wouldn't put it past Old Trace to follow her rules to stay on her good side.

I am pretty sure Trace, as paranoid as he was has a built in failsafe in case of catastrophic failure. You know something he keeps in case Rose manages to break loose , detritus start playing with matches or the ritual is about to blow up. I imagine such failsafe turns detirtus into fertilizer purgersthe ritual vessel, in this case Maren, and decomissions Rose then reboots all manor systems and grant sole and direct control to Trace.
That being said as Gen. Bell points out given current Traces amnesiac state he would not be able to trigger it since he does not remember it exists, and if he were to remember, well then detritus an Clovis are the least of the party problems.

Also i think there are two layers of the manor security, 3 depending how you count. First you have Nora enchantment that turns any trespasses into a farm animals and Stoneward himself, this is dragon magic and is personally enchanted by Nora. Then on a separate "circuit" when have trace implementations: the broken golems, Rose and Detritus. I really doubt Nora has anything to do with Traces Necromantic experiments. Althought we really do not know what she did, or didn't do after Trace went [censored] insane. Again as you mention she is no killer so i doubt she helped Trace with all the coups, genocide and necromancy, on the other hand i doubt Trace was very communicative with her during that period.
What is the third? Oh normal enchantments like the beach room, stuff any normal mage puts in his home to show off.

[Tornir]

I think the back door had no security apart from the initial access restriction; only Trace can open it. I'm guessing anyone who's created a compatible gate can open it with any gate key. There doesn't appear to be any estate security systems active on the grounds, just monitoring. Roan and Sam got all the way to the front door before the system zapped them (and I'm guessing Restricted Rose could not have overridden that, even if she'd wanted to).

Talking of Rose, she could be critical to what's currently playing out.
Since Detritus went live, she's lost all control (and monitoring?) privs, but she's still running and can communicate within the greenhouse, however she has an intimate knowledge of the estate systems (even the bits she couldn't control).
Trace remembers basically nothing about them, but as she's already done, Rose could tell him:

"Hey Trace, run:

Code: Select all

kill -9 $(pidof Detritus)

and

Code: Select all

kill -1 $(pidof Rose)

Detritus would then (if they aren't totally shut down) face the possibility of the remaining lizard rocks being 'ported in to help Stoney chase them round the greenhouse.
Or maybe they could be chickenized? Rose did mention a need for eggs...

[MaverickMopete]

When all you have is a crate, every problem looks like something you should throw a crate at to solve it.

work with what you've got at hand, after all.

[Bellhead]

When all you have is a crate, every problem looks like something you should throw a crate at to solve it.

work with what you've got at hand, after all.

In the immortal words of what's-her-name from "I, Robot",

WELL IT WORKED, DIDN'T IT?!

[steelabjur]

Well, that’s a callback!

https://twokinds.keenspot.com/comic/168/

Both times he's done it have reminded me of Killer Croc in the Batman: TAS episode "Almost Got 'Im", I half expect him to say "It was a big crate..."

[Thomas Rot]

At least now we have clarity that Detritus has in fact taken over everything.

The more I think about what's actually going on with the parts of the ritual Detritus ought to be monitoring, the less I think that is true.

Maren herself, to begin with. That apparition on page 1117 wasn't sent by Detritus, I think that much is clear: he barely paid attention to more substantial threats to the ritual, things like the holes in the mansion roof, people loose in the hallways, crime lords wielding magically OP'd red crystals. It's unlikely that that same dude went to the trouble of conjuring an apparition to lure a comparatively unthreatening teenager over a ledge. Unless Maren has really been wired into the estate, that had to be Rose's work. What was said on that page also signals quite clearly that either Maren or Rose (or both) is aware of where Maren's body currently is and wants Karen, or whoever else was within earshot, to know about that danger.

If that is true, then either Maren is still conscious and actively attempting to fight back, or Rose is quietly still exerting influence over a good deal of the estate without Detritus's knowledge. Or both. And in either case there is a massive hole in whatever plan Detritus has — which, thus far, has consisted of the essentially passive actions of shutting off the mansion's power and releasing the guardians. Nothing more (pro)active than that. No attempts to fry Sythe, or corral the people escaping the Oasis Room, or handle the multiple break-ins. He says he's taken over everything; he might even believe he has; but he sure hasn't been acting that way and perhaps may not be able to, if he notices and tries.

[Technic[Bot]]

I think the back door had no security apart from the initial access restriction; only Trace can open it. I'm guessing anyone who's created a compatible gate can open it with any gate key. There doesn't appear to be any estate security systems active on the grounds, just monitoring. Roan and Sam got all the way to the front door before the system zapped them (and I'm guessing Restricted Rose could not have overridden that, even if she'd wanted to).

Talking of Rose, she could be critical to what's currently playing out.
Since Detritus went live, she's lost all control (and monitoring?) privs, but she's still running and can communicate within the greenhouse, however she has an intimate knowledge of the estate systems (even the bits she couldn't control).
Trace remembers basically nothing about them, but as she's already done, Rose could tell him:

"Hey Trace, run:

Code: Select all

kill -9 $(pidof Detritus)

and

Code: Select all

kill -1 $(pidof Rose)

Detritus would then (if they aren't totally shut down) face the possibility of the remaining lizard rocks being 'ported in to help Stoney chase them round the greenhouse.
Or maybe they could be chickenized? Rose did mention a need for eggs...

I understand the SIGKILL for Detritus, not so much why the SIGHUP for Rose, wouldn't that simply kick her out of her session and kill all her child processes?

At least now we have clarity that Detritus has in fact taken over everything.

The more I think about what's actually going on with the parts of the ritual Detritus ought to be monitoring, the less I think that is true.

Maren herself, to begin with. That apparition on page 1117 wasn't sent by Detritus, I think that much is clear: he barely paid attention to more substantial threats to the ritual, things like the holes in the mansion roof, people loose in the hallways, crime lords wielding magically OP'd red crystals. It's unlikely that that same dude went to the trouble of conjuring an apparition to lure a comparatively unthreatening teenager over a ledge. Unless Maren has really been wired into the estate, that had to be Rose's work. What was said on that page also signals quite clearly that either Maren or Rose (or both) is aware of where Maren's body currently is and wants Karen, or whoever else was within earshot, to know about that danger.

If that is true, then either Maren is still conscious and actively attempting to fight back, or Rose is quietly still exerting influence over a good deal of the estate without Detritus's knowledge. Or both. And in either case there is a massive hole in whatever plan Detritus has — which, thus far, has consisted of the essentially passive actions of shutting off the mansion's power and releasing the guardians. Nothing more (pro)active than that. No attempts to fry Sythe, or corral the people escaping the Oasis Room, or handle the multiple break-ins. He says he's taken over everything; he might even believe he has; but he sure hasn't been acting that way and perhaps may not be able to, if he notices and tries.

Clearly Detritus is not as skilled as he believes, he seems too focused on not being lapidated by crates to notices there are multiple security breaches everywhere but in the greenhouse, well even Sythe and Nibs are there soo, yeah nothing is is going according to plan for him. This overconfident is something i believe he picked up from his creator Trace, who believed he was soo good at magic he could bring back the death to life, however misguided he was Trace did have skill and talent to match his ego something Detritus definitely lacks.

[steelabjur]

Trace still clearly doesn't know how to fight, but at least he has the sense to raise a shield. At least now we have clarity that Detritus has in fact taken over everything. Too bad he doesn't understand that Stoney was made with a will of his own, not to serve the Estate. I wonder if he'll realize it...

Yeah I think our favorite malfunctioning DIY Alexa is not aware Stony is not like the rest of the golems around. How could he? Stony was made (born? Is he alive?) Years before detritus was a thought on the back of Trace mind. And he obeys and protects real trace not his malfunction home automation.

Also I am surprised detritus is physical not some hologram mag ic projection or something. Seems a weird design choice.
Also what was inside the crate? Seeds?

Detritus was originally designed as a prototype replacement body for Saria that Trace put a copy of his mind in as a test, and decided to scrap the experiment after seeing the result in favor of the "Maren Plan", obviously Old!Trace wanted a wife replacement he could touch.

[Tornir]

I understand the SIGKILL for Detritus, not so much why the SIGHUP for Rose, wouldn't that simply kick her out of her session and kill all her child processes?

Child processes have already been killed, by the looks of it; she's just got a locked down session in the greenhouse, with some basic comms.
I'm assuming Trace's command authority overrides Detritus (who overrides Rose).
Trace removed the restrictions he'd placed on her, so if he resets, those may be the settings she'll come back with.
Even if she gets back with her default restricted mode, there'll be no Detritus to lock her down again, so she'll be able to brief the others on what's happening, and maybe harass Clovis?

[Technic[Bot]]

Trace still clearly doesn't know how to fight, but at least he has the sense to raise a shield. At least now we have clarity that Detritus has in fact taken over everything. Too bad he doesn't understand that Stoney was made with a will of his own, not to serve the Estate. I wonder if he'll realize it...

Yeah I think our favorite malfunctioning DIY Alexa is not aware Stony is not like the rest of the golems around. How could he? Stony was made (born? Is he alive?) Years before detritus was a thought on the back of Trace mind. And he obeys and protects real trace not his malfunction home automation.

Also I am surprised detritus is physical not some hologram mag ic projection or something. Seems a weird design choice.
Also what was inside the crate? Seeds?

Detritus was originally designed as a prototype replacement body for Saria that Trace put a copy of his mind in as a test, and decided to scrap the experiment after seeing the result in favor of the "Maren Plan", obviously Old!Trace wanted a wife replacement he could touch.

I was under the impression he was a protoype for whatever Rose ended up being.

I understand the SIGKILL for Detritus, not so much why the SIGHUP for Rose, wouldn't that simply kick her out of her session and kill all her child processes?

Child processes have already been killed, by the looks of it; she's just got a locked down session in the greenhouse, with some basic comms.
I'm assuming Trace's command authority overrides Detritus (who overrides Rose).
Trace removed the restrictions he'd placed on her, so if he resets, those may be the settings she'll come back with.
Even if she gets back with her default restricted mode, there'll be no Detritus to lock her down again, so she'll be able to brief the others on what's happening, and maybe harass Clovis?

Well most programs also respond to SIGHUP by terminating so this may disconnected her from the state and whatever life support she is on. But given her situation she may actually prefer that.

[Tornir]

I was under the impression he was a protoype for whatever Rose ended up being.

Not long ago, death was your obsession. Researching ways to extend life, and bring it back. You needed someone to test your work on, and I was all you had left. So when I got old and my time drew near… (link)

Headcanon: Rose is an immortality experiment, and is still alive (if only just). Detritus is a conscious transfer experiment, thrown together from animated bits a vulture would turn down. After turning Maren into Saria2*, he planned to Rose-ify both her and himself, so they could live together forever on the estate.

Well most programs also respond to SIGHUP by terminating so this may disconnected her from the state and whatever life support she is on. But given her situation she may actually prefer that.

I've been thinking of Rose as hardware, with her life support as part of the estate OS kernel. If Detritus could have killed her, I'm sure he would have. The estate systems may have a shutdown option, but -r may not be possible without all devs (including Nora) being present to manually bring their bits back up.

...Rose is quietly still exerting influence over a good deal of the estate without Detritus's knowledge.

If you understand a system well enough, and have the time to experiment and prepare, it's often possible to do things you're not supposed to be able to do by going about it in ways the designers never anticipated, that don't leave any logs/flag alerts.
Rose has had years to do this.


*I'm not clear exactly how he planned to achieve this. Is it going to be something like Natani's heart's desire spell that animates a donor body instead of manifesting as a projection?

[Technic[Bot]]

I was under the impression he was a protoype for whatever Rose ended up being.

Not long ago, death was your obsession. Researching ways to extend life, and bring it back. You needed someone to test your work on, and I was all you had left. So when I got old and my time drew near… (link)

Headcanon: Rose is an immortality experiment, and is still alive (if only just). Detritus is a conscious transfer experiment, thrown together from animated bits a vulture would turn down. After turning Maren into Saria2*, he planned to Rose-ify both her and himself, so they could live together forever on the estate.

Well most programs also respond to SIGHUP by terminating so this may disconnected her from the state and whatever life support she is on. But given her situation she may actually prefer that.

I've been thinking of Rose as hardware, with her life support as part of the estate OS kernel. If Detritus could have killed her, I'm sure he would have. The estate systems may have a shutdown option, but -r may not be possible without all devs (including Nora) being present to manually bring their bits back up.

...Rose is quietly still exerting influence over a good deal of the estate without Detritus's knowledge.

If you understand a system well enough, and have the time to experiment and prepare, it's often possible to do things you're not supposed to be able to do by going about it in ways the designers never anticipated, that don't leave any logs/flag alerts.
Rose has had years to do this.


*I'm not clear exactly how he planned to achieve this. Is it going to be something like Natani's heart's desire spell that animates a donor body instead of manifesting as a projection?

Agreed Rose is not death, yet. And only because Trace did not allowed her to. I like to thing not only he needed someone to experiment with but he also was unwilling to let go the only living thing that reminded him of Saria. Regarding the resurrection ritual i am pretty sure involves ripping Maren soul of her body and somehow pulling Sarias souls from the afterlife into the now vacant body. I am also pretty sure the latter step will fail as for what little we know of Mekkan magic system this is impossible. Besides i doubt Saria would come back willingly given the nature of Trace experiment. Actually i take that back I half expect the ritual to almost succeed, Saria souls comes down to the heavens but only to plead Trace to stop this madness and leaves, which in turn causes Trace to snap.

And again i think whatever Trace programmed into the system is independent from Nora enchantments. Probably detritus does not have enough privileges to unplug Rose or still finds her useful...

[Tornir]

Wasn't resurrection considered black magic because it invariably killed the caster attempting it?
Is that why old Trace kept Detritus around? As a suicidal proxy for that ritual? It's pretty clear he's not going to initiate it himself unless old Trace resurfaces, and if that happens even 100% success would likely be a failure, because from what we've seen of Saria, she's be horrified and appalled by what he became, and what he did to her friend Rose; I doubt she'd want anything more to do with him.

[Bellhead]

Natani explained Dark Magic through a couple instances; first back during his first scene, and later on the Island with Keith. Dark Mana is the energy of living things, and crystals of it can be formed from dying earth, if my mental archive is right.. And dark magic is forbidden because it tends to kill the caster, not necessarily kills them. Trace showed that himself at the tower, when he used dark magic, and his hand turned into a claw.

Which brings us to this ritual. Per Nora, in theory it's possible to resurrect someone by stealing the life force of other things, but in reality it's impossible because the dark mana kills the caster before the spell can complete. I remember we had a theory some years back, not sure where it started, but it goes something like, Trace intended to use the towers to siphon the life force of everyone in range to use as the power source for the resurrection. I wonder if Nora's warnings led him to that idea...

[Tornir]

Whoa...
I could see how that could work, but it's definitely a nuclear mousetrap solution.
Saria would never forgive him.