Comic for September 8, 2019: Self-Mastery Training

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Re: Comic for September 8, 2019: Self-Mastery Training

#16 Post by Ddraig » Mon Sep 09, 2019 12:36 am

BadJoke wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 11:11 pm
My theory is that Rose is going to order Raine to hurt Red, or hurt Red herself while ordering her to stand aside. That way she'd force her to fight back as strong as she can (she can't use Red directly, he's to straightforward and cares too much about Raine to engage in anything hurtful to her in any way).
I doubt it'd be that malevolent. The worst I could see Rose doing is ordering Raine to strip in front of Red (And this is where I expect Raine would manage to overcome it - hush you). It'd fit both a sense of humor and Rose's older keidran standards of nudity
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Re: Comic for September 8, 2019: Self-Mastery Training

#17 Post by steelabjur » Mon Sep 09, 2019 2:32 am

aitaituo wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 7:37 pm
Spoiler!
Image
That was exactly my thought.

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Re: Comic for September 8, 2019: Self-Mastery Training

#18 Post by tony1695 » Mon Sep 09, 2019 3:03 am

I think part of the reason she's enjoying it is because Raine is Euchre's daughter. Y'know, the guy who was willing to let her die to maintain his cover?
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Re: Comic for September 8, 2019: Self-Mastery Training

#19 Post by multilis » Mon Sep 09, 2019 4:39 am

"I thought I told you to keep standing on one leg"... that means ***SUCCESS***, she has disobeyed the command... thanks to seeing Red. So Rose is thinking that Red is the needed motivation.

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Re: Comic for September 8, 2019: Self-Mastery Training

#20 Post by AndreRhineDavis » Mon Sep 09, 2019 7:30 am

oof. "hurt people hurt people", as they say.

I feel like Rose's reference sheet says it all.
Young Adult:
- Easy-going farm girl
- Playful
- Mischievous
- Enjoys messing with people

Elder:
- Sarcastic
- Blunt
- Cynical
- Enjoys messing with people
It sounds like Rose has always been a trickster and prankster and enjoys trolling people, but the psychological trauma of her near-execution and the years of psychological abuse serving under Trace have really taken its toll. Deep down, I don't think she wants to really hurt Raine, but it's far too easy for her to take things too far. Look at how easily and emotionlessly she spoke of killing Trace, and how completely apathetic and nonplussed she is to the idea of humans being turned into hens. I mean sure, all these people are her "enemies", but she's just so... emotionless about it all. As if the concepts of murder or torture are so *mundane* to her. She doesn't even *hate* these people anymore... hate and rage and pain have been replaced by this cold emotionless disassociative apathy.
I can very easily see her pushing Raine too far and humiliating her and abusing her without even thinking much of it. She'd probably just say "oh grow up" if Raine started crying out of distress. It seems Rose has been hardened to the point where pretty much all her empathy and morality is burnt away. She's a lot like Euchre now, not trusting anyone, not caring about anyone, seeing everyone and everything as pawns to be manipulated for her own goals. I honestly believe that if it were in her best interests to kill Raine, she could do it in a second with little to no remorse. Now that Trace has removed her restrictions, the only reason why Trace (or any of them) are alive right now is because Rose doesn't feel like it's in her best interests to kill them, at least right now. Maybe deep deep down, Rose does care about Raine and maybe even about the lives of people in general, but all of that is deeply covered by a thick layer of cold hard apathy and disassociation.

That's the vibe I get from the comic, at least.

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Re: Comic for September 8, 2019: Self-Mastery Training

#21 Post by HSishi » Mon Sep 09, 2019 3:15 pm

Rose: "Hm ..."

Me (in :redhair:'s situation): "Uh-oh ... better get out and away ... FAR away!

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Re: Comic for September 8, 2019: Self-Mastery Training

#22 Post by Ddraig » Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:32 pm

multilis wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 4:39 am
"I thought I told you to keep standing on one leg"... that means ***SUCCESS***, she has disobeyed the command... thanks to seeing Red. So Rose is thinking that Red is the needed motivation.
"Why are you standing on one leg" is Red, "Boy, I thought I told you to stay - " is Rose talking to Red. Doesn't look like Raine put down her other foot.
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Re: Comic for September 8, 2019: Self-Mastery Training

#23 Post by Eclipse » Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:59 pm

JayJayForce wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 9:46 pm
Hmm, first thought is that she's going to order Raine to get into a compromising situation with Red, though the other poster's idea of giving Red control is valid as well. Though I'm not sure if Red would really go too far with that. He's a jerk, but he still likes Raine a lot.
Yeah, I was thinking compromising situation as well.
aitaituo wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 10:45 pm
Eclipse wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 9:20 pm
The more I see Rose the more she disturbs me. Now she's engaging in petplay with Raine? Did she just throw her morals out the window?

Also don't like that look she gave Red. This isn't going to be fun (for Raine anyway. But it's totally going to be fun for us).
I think the idea is that if the commands are repulsive to Raine, it gives her more motive to resist the commands. The issue is apparently willpower. OTOH, we only have Rose's word that resisting a slave collar will somehow help her control her transformations. If only there was someone who could make new enchanted items for Raine.
Well yeah, I got that much, but it doesn't make it any more right. What Rose is doing to Raine here is morally questionable regardless of the reason behind it.
Ddraig wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 12:36 am
I doubt it'd be that malevolent. The worst I could see Rose doing is ordering Raine to strip in front of Red (And this is where I expect Raine would manage to overcome it - hush you). It'd fit both a sense of humor and Rose's older keidran standards of nudity
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AndreRhineDavis wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 7:30 am
oof. "hurt people hurt people", as they say.

I feel like Rose's reference sheet says it all.
Young Adult:
- Easy-going farm girl
- Playful
- Mischievous
- Enjoys messing with people

Elder:
- Sarcastic
- Blunt
- Cynical
- Enjoys messing with people
It sounds like Rose has always been a trickster and prankster and enjoys trolling people, but the psychological trauma of her near-execution and the years of psychological abuse serving under Trace have really taken its toll. Deep down, I don't think she wants to really hurt Raine, but it's far too easy for her to take things too far. Look at how easily and emotionlessly she spoke of killing Trace, and how completely apathetic and nonplussed she is to the idea of humans being turned into hens. I mean sure, all these people are her "enemies", but she's just so... emotionless about it all. As if the concepts of murder or torture are so *mundane* to her. She doesn't even *hate* these people anymore... hate and rage and pain have been replaced by this cold emotionless disassociative apathy.
I can very easily see her pushing Raine too far and humiliating her and abusing her without even thinking much of it. She'd probably just say "oh grow up" if Raine started crying out of distress. It seems Rose has been hardened to the point where pretty much all her empathy and morality is burnt away. She's a lot like Euchre now, not trusting anyone, not caring about anyone, seeing everyone and everything as pawns to be manipulated for her own goals. I honestly believe that if it were in her best interests to kill Raine, she could do it in a second with little to no remorse. Now that Trace has removed her restrictions, the only reason why Trace (or any of them) are alive right now is because Rose doesn't feel like it's in her best interests to kill them, at least right now. Maybe deep deep down, Rose does care about Raine and maybe even about the lives of people in general, but all of that is deeply covered by a thick layer of cold hard apathy and disassociation.

That's the vibe I get from the comic, at least.
I think you hit the nail on the head right here. She's been through so much BS that I could see her becoming numb to things like murder and slavery.

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Re: Comic for September 8, 2019: Self-Mastery Training

#24 Post by AmigaDragon » Tue Sep 10, 2019 12:31 am

Rose might be contemplating a control collar for Red. In a world where magical slave control collars are in use, I doubt humans would be exempt from such things. Collars would be made for each race that can be sold into slavery, though basitin collars might be more difficult to make or keep working because of their resistances. Otherwise, maybe Rose is thinking that an audience would be added incentive to resist the collar.
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Re: Comic for September 8, 2019: Self-Mastery Training

#25 Post by Yastreb » Tue Sep 10, 2019 12:39 pm

Neutral Smith wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 7:40 pm
It does give an odd insight of how the Mekkan society regards Dogs. At the absolute bottom of it.
Non-sentient dogs. I wouldn't like it either if somebody treated me the same way they would treat a non-sentiet being.

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Re: Comic for September 8, 2019: Self-Mastery Training

#26 Post by AndreRhineDavis » Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:04 pm

Yastreb wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 12:39 pm
Neutral Smith wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 7:40 pm
It does give an odd insight of how the Mekkan society regards Dogs. At the absolute bottom of it.
Non-sentient dogs. I wouldn't like it either if somebody treated me the same way they would treat a non-sentiet being.
Yeah, we know that regular cats and dogs exist. We have seen Brahn's daughter control a black cat, and Reni talks about transforming into a dog.
It seemed pretty obvious to me that Raine was talking about a regular dog. The confusing thing is that the term "a dog" is used in TwoKinds both for a regular dog and a Dog Keidran.

Linguistically speaking, in a world like Mekkan where Keidran are sentient beings, I would expect there to be basic words in the language for the different species of Keidran, and if anything the animals would be named after the *Keidran*. As in, there might be a basic word "wolf" that refers to wolf Keidran, and then actual wolf animals would be called "the wolf-like animal" or something like that. But of course, we're not reading the comic in the human language as it would have naturally evolved on Mekkan, we're reading it in English which evolved in our world based on our culture and society.

Actually, the really interesting thing is how Raine mentioned that when she first transformed she thought she had turned into a werewolf. It makes you wonder what sort of werewolf stories/legends there would be, and how different their nature and cultural context must be in a world like Mekkan with the existence of wolf Keidran!

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Re: Comic for September 8, 2019: Self-Mastery Training

#27 Post by Neutral Smith » Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:25 pm

AndreRhineDavis wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:04 pm
Yastreb wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 12:39 pm
Neutral Smith wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 7:40 pm
It does give an odd insight of how the Mekkan society regards Dogs. At the absolute bottom of it.
Non-sentient dogs. I wouldn't like it either if somebody treated me the same way they would treat a non-sentiet being.
Yeah, we know that regular cats and dogs exist. We have seen Brahn's daughter control a black cat, and Reni talks about transforming into a dog.
It seemed pretty obvious to me that Raine was talking about a regular dog. The confusing thing is that the term "a dog" is used in TwoKinds both for a regular dog and a Dog Keidran.

Linguistically speaking, in a world like Mekkan where Keidran are sentient beings, I would expect there to be basic words in the language for the different species of Keidran, and if anything the animals would be named after the *Keidran*. As in, there might be a basic word "wolf" that refers to wolf Keidran, and then actual wolf animals would be called "the wolf-like animal" or something like that. But of course, we're not reading the comic in the human language as it would have naturally evolved on Mekkan, we're reading it in English which evolved in our world based on our culture and society.

Actually, the really interesting thing is how Raine mentioned that when she first transformed she thought she had turned into a werewolf. It makes you wonder what sort of werewolf stories/legends there would be, and how different their nature and cultural context must be in a world like Mekkan with the existence of wolf Keidran!
I was in the 'carnivores are intelligent, vegetarians herbivores lack higher brain functions' mode. But yes, we have seen a common cat.
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Re: Comic for September 8, 2019: Self-Mastery Training

#28 Post by AmigaDragon » Wed Sep 11, 2019 1:26 am

Raine wrote:Do so many of these have to be commands you'd give to a dog?
How does she know this? Did Raine or her caretaker(s) ever have a dog where she grew up that she knows this context? Or has she read books where dogs were trained for such commands?
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Re: Comic for September 8, 2019: Self-Mastery Training

#29 Post by Rafe » Thu Sep 12, 2019 12:30 am

Hmm, seeing something different happening here:

ROSE (To Red): It has been a while. You seem to be in something of a hurry, so I should probably let you two go for now.

RAINE: What? We're not done here... I mean, I'm not ready yet... I need some more time to...

ROSE: No, you're fine. Go swimming with you're friends. Try that revealing bikini or just go suit-less - Keidran don't go for swimsuits much, and you're in your furry mode.

RAINE: WHAT?! NO!...I

RED (To Rose): Are you sure she's okay?

ROSE: Yes. Tell him, Raine, we're just playing games.

RAINE (Through her teeth, unnaturally): Just... Playing... Games...

ROSE (to Red): See, she's in a most agreeable mood. I'm sure she'll do anything you ask.

RED: Okay, great! C'mon Raine let's go.

ROSE: You two have fun!

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Re: Comic for September 8, 2019: Self-Mastery Training

#30 Post by Technic[Bot] » Sat Sep 14, 2019 4:10 pm

Ok now Rose is really creeping me out. First of all as many of us have pointed out her "training" really makes little sense. How resisting the collar can help her gain control of her magic is beyond me.

Anyhow regarding what she will do I am pretty sure she will " ask" Raine to go to the beach room with everyone else wearing a rather skimpy outfit. We know she is really uncomfortable doing that so following Rose logic that would be a good incentive to resist the spell. And it is also a good excuse to get everyone on swimwear.

I do not think she will order Raine to kiss Red. Or at least I hope she doesn't. And it is unlikely to make her attack Red. She is likely to actually overpower the spell in that situation. After all protecting her friends is a way more compelling incentive for her. And then there is no reason for her to go to the beach party.
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