Mekkan's Early Days

The comic stuff here.

Moderators: Tom, avwolf

Post Reply
Message
Author
User avatar
Master
Posts: 204
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2017 12:01 am
Location: haha, look at him go!
Contact:

Mekkan's Early Days

#1 Post by Neptune » Sun Aug 12, 2018 5:27 pm

Is there any lore for the creation of the universe and Mekkan before the masks came along? We know that both were possibly created 3,000-5,000 years ago (as of now; I guess Tom's fixing things he believes to be flawed, like Keidran aging), but is there anything specific? How large is the planet? I've heard that the planet can be anywhere from 2,000-7,000 km in radius, depending on how much area that supercontinent takes up. What's its star system like? Were there two moons, then one was destroyed (if it wasn't a retcon)?
Image Haha, he's so tiny! Where is he going?

User avatar
Master
Posts: 204
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2017 12:01 am
Location: haha, look at him go!
Contact:

Re: Mekkan's Early Days

#2 Post by Neptune » Sun Aug 12, 2018 9:10 pm

Oh well, here's a little timeline of what I believe to have happened.
  • c. -2500—-4500: The universe was created. Possibly an alternate universe to Earth's. Since there has been no time for bright Wolf-Rayet and O-type stars to evolve and go supernova, the sky here is much brighter than on Earth. Mekkan's Galaxy is a starburst galaxy.
  • c. -2000: the Dragon is created by the creators of the Galaxy, presumably to inhabit other planets.
  • >-2000: The last of the beings that created Mekkan's Galaxy die, and leave their children to rule. The Masks are three of such siblings who are given control of a star system which is now forming.
  • -2000—-1000: Mekkan is created. It's radius is not certain, but is likely in the 2000—6000 km range, being smaller than Mars or Earth-size. In its first days, Mekkan was likely hot and freshly coalesced together, but then cooled down.
  • -1000: The first Non-Superhuman sentients pop up on Mekkan. They were most likely created so that their fates could be controlled until they die, and the masks do, too. They were probably humans or adlets*.
  • -750: Humans and Keidran split into three groups (maybe) and voyage to the north, west and east respectively and don't come into contact with each other for over 250 more years (definite).
    • -1000: The first Basitins awaken on the islands that make up Mekkan's Southern Hemisphere. Since they don't know how to traverse long distances over the seas, they stay on the island and fight each other for a while.
    • ~-500: Basitins conquer the Foxes and Forest Wolves, and end up in a sliver of human territory before they're pushed out of the peninsula. The Foxes were affected such by this that words in their dialect (maybe) have Basidian origins. Possible Balkanization of Keidran ethnic groups by Basitins to divide and conquer?
    • ~-250: Constant wars spread all over Keidran country in the west, and tension rises in the east. Basitins start sending their criminals to the far north.
    • -250: Snow Leopards are forced to move south or killed off.
    • 450: Mekkan could possibly end up in mass conflict, with the Basitins possibly crusading after Keith, Wolf-human tensions, constant terrorizing of Foxes by Wolves, and the Templar being in confusion, not to mention Wolves destroying a Tiger-human festival**.
    • 500<: Nobody knows for certain.
    *My term for Human-Keidran hybrids, since they look a lot like the Inuit Adlet, in theory.
    **If that is what it was.

    Whoops, formatting is screwed.
Image Haha, he's so tiny! Where is he going?

User avatar
Council Member
Posts: 508
Joined: Sun Mar 17, 2013 8:55 pm
Location: Sol system, Orion spiral arm, Milky Way

Re: Mekkan's Early Days

#3 Post by MuonNeutrino » Sun Aug 12, 2018 10:06 pm

Neptune wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 9:10 pm
  • c. -2500—-4500: The universe was created. Possibly an alternate universe to Earth's. Since there has been no time for bright Wolf-Rayet and O-type stars to evolve and go supernova, the sky here is much brighter than on Earth. Mekkan's Galaxy is a starburst galaxy.
  • -2000—-1000: Mekkan is created. It's radius is not certain, but is likely in the 2000—6000 km range, being smaller than Mars or Earth-size. In its first days, Mekkan was likely hot and freshly coalesced together, but then cooled down.
Under that timeline there hasn't been time for such massive stars to evolve, yes. There also hasn't been enough time for *any* stars, regardless of mass, to even form in the first place - a few thousand years is nowhere near enough time for that process. If the twokinds universe was indeed created such a short time ago, it would have had to have been created with stars already in existence, and thus they could be at any stage in their evolution the creator wanted. Similarly, the galaxy doesn't necessarily have to be a starburst either; there hasn't been enough time for it to have become one naturally (or evolve in any way, really), so it'd just be in whatever state it was created in.

A significantly sub-Earth radius for Mekkan would be tricky, mostly because you'd start having problems with low surface gravity unless it had a very unusual composition and very high density. I suppose Mekkan might just *have* low surface gravity (it would explain some of the improbable acrobatics we've seen :wink:), but I think that would have noticeable effects on the biology of the plants and animals (i.e. trees could be much taller). Or it could have a really unnaturally high density, which I suppose is also not impossible given that it would have to have been created out of whole cloth anyway instead of forming naturally. (Again, a few thousand years is nowhere near enough time to form a planet at all, let alone cool it off.)
Image

User avatar
Master
Posts: 204
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2017 12:01 am
Location: haha, look at him go!
Contact:

Re: Mekkan's Early Days

#4 Post by Neptune » Mon Aug 13, 2018 12:56 am

MuonNeutrino wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 10:06 pm
Neptune wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 9:10 pm
  • c. -2500—-4500: The universe was created. Possibly an alternate universe to Earth's. Since there has been no time for bright Wolf-Rayet and O-type stars to evolve and go supernova, the sky here is much brighter than on Earth. Mekkan's Galaxy is a starburst galaxy.
  • -2000—-1000: Mekkan is created. It's radius is not certain, but is likely in the 2000—6000 km range, being smaller than Mars or Earth-size. In its first days, Mekkan was likely hot and freshly coalesced together, but then cooled down.
Under that timeline there hasn't been time for such massive stars to evolve, yes. There also hasn't been enough time for *any* stars, regardless of mass, to even form in the first place - a few thousand years is nowhere near enough time for that process. If the twokinds universe was indeed created such a short time ago, it would have had to have been created with stars already in existence, and thus they could be at any stage in their evolution the creator wanted. Similarly, the galaxy doesn't necessarily have to be a starburst either; there hasn't been enough time for it to have become one naturally (or evolve in any way, really), so it'd just be in whatever state it was created in.
Since Mekkan's Galaxy was created 3,000—5,000 years ago (TwoKinds time), I would imagine that there were stars being constantly created and maintained until the Elder Gods passed. I would think there would be a few red giants here and there if the creators felt like it, though blue stars and Wolf-Rayets seem prettier-looking, being much brighter and making the night sky look very entertaining. Starburst Galaxies, though kind of unstable, look much more beautiful to the viewer than even galaxies like the Milky Way.
MuonNeutrino wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 10:06 pm
A significantly sub-Earth radius for Mekkan would be tricky, mostly because you'd start having problems with low surface gravity unless it had a very unusual composition and very high density. I suppose Mekkan might just have low surface gravity (it would explain some of the improbable acrobatics we've seen ;)), but I think that would have noticeable effects on the biology of the plants and animals (i.e. trees could be much taller). Or it could have a really unnaturally high density, which I suppose is also not impossible given that it would have to have been created out of whole cloth anyway instead of forming naturally. (Again, a few thousand years is nowhere near enough time to form a planet at all, let alone cool it off.)
Given how the universe was created to best suit aesthetics, I imagine some God thought it would be nice making a planet out of Osmium, so he poofed up some and made most of the planet's core of that, making the rest more terrestrial, because he realized that he wanted to live there in his retirement. Also, making planets artificially is theoretically much quicker and more controllable than natural planet formation, so a few thousand years isn't that bad.
Image Haha, he's so tiny! Where is he going?

User avatar
Master
Posts: 258
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:48 pm
Location: México
Contact:

Re: Mekkan's Early Days

#5 Post by Technic[Bot] » Mon Aug 13, 2018 2:35 am

Rummaging trough my old post i found this thread that delved into some deep lore. The quote in question i want to point out is this
Tom wrote:Just to let you guys know, evolution does not exist in Twokinds. Keidran and humans were created by demi-gods. They all came from the earth, only a few thousand years before the current comic. This is not to say that Twokinds is promoting a specific religion, or non-religion, it's just the fact of the matter is all.
So yeah while Keidran/Basitin/Humans have existed for a few thousand years only. The whole planet seems to have existed prior to them. Apparently some older/elder god created/modified the planet and possibly made the dragons for some reason. Some time later ~4000 years ago the mask got assigned to the planet, what for we do not know, but they eventually got bored and created the three races we all know and love (?).

In the same thread we can also see some discussion of proto-history about what or how the world was before the mask appeared. However it was noted that it is very old information, unlikely to still be canon.

Personally i think i goes somewhere like this:
  • Over 20 000 years ago*: The elder gods, or whatever will create the mask arrives in the Mekkan system.They start creating a planet or simply terraforming an existing one.
  • Over 10 000 years ago*: They finally finish the terraforming part, they create the dragons and other "lesser beast" to inhabit the planet
  • Over 5 000 years ago: The elder gods create the mask and assign them to watch over the planet, then they either leave the system or died
  • Over 4 000 years ago: The mask bored by the rather apathetic dragons and other animals that run the planet decide create the 3 races for fun and profit
  • Over 3 000 years ago: Their races turn out to be "lovers" rather than "fighters" and since hybrids screw with their scoring system they ban inter-species breeding
  • 2 months or so ago: The relation between the mask and their game is pretty sour for something. Ephemeral breaks most of the games rules by erasing Trace's memory in an attempt to prevent the Keidran extermination. Somhow she/he thinks this could somewhat spur a local tigress Flora to become a general and prevent him losing the game.
I do think ephemural is not the smartest demigod in the bunch

Also if the dragons predate the mask that could explain why dragons are compatible with pretty much anything they like. The mask used dragons as base for the other races.
*By this a simply mean: a helluva lot of time before current age.
You can motivate people with the things; Money, fear and love.
Link to my ramblings:
Twokinds [of] data

Templar
Posts: 398
Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2010 10:02 pm

Re: Mekkan's Early Days

#6 Post by aitaituo » Mon Aug 13, 2018 5:21 am

Why assume that the galaxy originates contemporaneously with the Masks or some elder god creating Mekkan? AFAWK, the Mekkan universe is 30 trillion years old and the gods are immortal-by-nanite biological organisms armed not with magic, but extremely advanced technology. Heck, Mekkan may be a holodeck program or MMORPG, if we're willing to speculate that far.
Image

User avatar
Master
Posts: 204
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2017 12:01 am
Location: haha, look at him go!
Contact:

Re: Mekkan's Early Days

#7 Post by Neptune » Mon Aug 13, 2018 4:22 pm

aitaituo wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 5:21 am
Why assume that the galaxy originates contemporaneously with the Masks or some elder god creating Mekkan? AFAWK, the Mekkan universe is 30 trillion years old and the gods are immortal-by-nanite biological organisms armed not with magic, but extremely advanced technology. Heck, Mekkan may be a holodeck program or MMORPG, if we're willing to speculate that far.
…Then the USS Enterprise NC-1701 (I think) ends up in LME because of going beyond Warp 10.

The reason it's believed the Elder Gods poofed up Mekkan's Galaxy is that Tom said so in the origin lore, as of now. There isn't much lore besides vague implications of what's been going on between then and "now."
Image Haha, he's so tiny! Where is he going?

User avatar
Master
Posts: 204
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2017 12:01 am
Location: haha, look at him go!
Contact:

Re: Mekkan's Early Days

#8 Post by Neptune » Mon Aug 13, 2018 4:32 pm

I saw that lore post, so I'm going to try and update my "timeline" as best as I can.

3,000-5,000 years ago* — The "Elder Gods" come along and they create the "Universe." There could be just a few or thousands, but all we know is that their lives were not permanent. A little bit of time after this, Mekkan is created.
2,500 years ago** — The Greater Beasts awaken. It's likely that there are more species of these things than just dragons. Who knows, maybe entire living planets were created!
2,000** years ago — The last original "god" dies, and has his children, the Masks, control this little world. They most likely know of Earth, so they decided to take their inspiration from Earth fauna. Shortly after this, the three races poof into existence and a game of Manipulative Chess is created.
2,000** years ago — Maybe the humans were plucked off an interstellar journey somewhere else and ended up here? Based on the idea that humans came by "ship."
1,500** years ago — Humans and Keidran start having families together and become allies. Order does not like this, so he demands Ephemeral to make them enemies again. They stop interbreeding, the hybrids die and they're pressured to go to war.
1,400** years ago — The Templar and Blood Order are created to preach hatred between the two species, and the former end up making the Human Givernment a puppet. Basitins move to the South because of conflict.
1,000** years ago — The Basitins invade the West Peninsula and annex most of Wolf territory and all of Dog and Fox territory. The humans push them back, and get Basitin respect. Maybe the Dogs and Foxes have unique loanwords in their dialect because of this? Depending on how long they were under the invading regime, I guess.
1,000 years ago to 100 years ago — Not much really happened in this period.
~2 months ago — Chaos and Ephemeral cause pressures between the two mainland races again, and Ephemeral makes hybrids a thing again to get the upper hand.
1 month from now — The first hybrid in at least 1,500 years is born. Maybe far more are born after this?
2 months from now** — The AB-Group reaches Lyn'Knoll. The Templar plan to kill all Keidran on Mekkan is presumably close to completion.
3 months from now** — The Tower is completed, but then destroyed somehow.
Years from now*** — Some human starship accidentally creates a wormholes which causes the ship to crash on Mekkan. Nobody knows where it came from. The humans want to destroy the evidence, because it directly compromises the "three gods" religion, the Keidran want to know if these humans are dangerous like the others, and the Basitins don't really know what to do with this information.

* As of August 2018.
** Mostly speculation.
*** Headcanon.
Image Haha, he's so tiny! Where is he going?

Templar
Posts: 398
Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2010 10:02 pm

Re: Mekkan's Early Days

#9 Post by aitaituo » Mon Aug 13, 2018 8:10 pm

Neptune wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 4:22 pm
aitaituo wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 5:21 am
Why assume that the galaxy originates contemporaneously with the Masks or some elder god creating Mekkan? AFAWK, the Mekkan universe is 30 trillion years old and the gods are immortal-by-nanite biological organisms armed not with magic, but extremely advanced technology. Heck, Mekkan may be a holodeck program or MMORPG, if we're willing to speculate that far.
…Then the USS Enterprise NC-1701 (I think) ends up in LME because of going beyond Warp 10.

The reason it's believed the Elder Gods poofed up Mekkan's Galaxy is that Tom said so in the origin lore, as of now. There isn't much lore besides vague implications of what's been going on between then and "now."
Having reviewed his old posts, I don't see where Tom suggests the larger universe and Mekkan were created contemporaneously. Tom's phrasing is "world." Analogously, the Bible says the heavens and the earth were created in seven days, but we know there is about a 10 billion year gap between those two events.

I don't mean to nitpick, but if we are going to get into the cosmological effects of the timeline, it's kind of important.
Image

User avatar
Master
Posts: 258
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:48 pm
Location: México
Contact:

Re: Mekkan's Early Days

#10 Post by Technic[Bot] » Tue Aug 14, 2018 2:10 am

aitaituo wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 5:21 am
Why assume that the galaxy originates contemporaneously with the Masks or some elder god creating Mekkan? AFAWK, the Mekkan universe is 30 trillion years old and the gods are immortal-by-nanite biological organisms armed not with magic, but extremely advanced technology. Heck, Mekkan may be a holodeck program or MMORPG, if we're willing to speculate that far.
aitaituo wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 8:10 pm
Having reviewed his old posts, I don't see where Tom suggests the larger universe and Mekkan were created contemporaneously. Tom's phrasing is "world." Analogously, the Bible says the heavens and the earth were created in seven days, but we know there is about a 10 billion year gap between those two events.

I don't mean to nitpick, but if we are going to get into the cosmological effects of the timeline, it's kind of important.
I have to agree. The only thing we are "mostly" sure is that the mask "appeared" around 4k years ago in a planet that already had dragons. For this we could assume that Tom the "elder gods" if we want to keep with the creationist motif, made everything else before within a reasonable time frame of a couple million years. Hell maybe they did nothing and simply found Mekkan inhabited by proto-dragons and decided it was a nice planet to mess with.

If you want my really crazy, off the rails, tin-foil hat head cannon you can consult below.
Spoiler!
There elder gods were actually humans terraforming planet for fun and profit. A startup, if you like, that tried to make more livable worlds and sell the real-state. Eventually their little gamble was either shut-down by regulations or the business tanked as many start-ups do, thier idea not being as good as they thought.
anyhow they should have "reverted" all planets they tampered with back to its original state, but either they could not, they did not wanted to or cared very little. One of this planets was Mekkan, which curiously was inhabited by dragon-like beast even before humans appeared.
To monitor such a large scale project hey used several A.I's per planet but after being left so many years without supervision or maintenance they went a bit rogue. They created the 3 races using record from earth fauna as templates and using the locals dragons to fill in the gaps, after all they are just advanced A.I's not gods to will living things into existence. Thus all races were compatible with dragons.
You can motivate people with the things; Money, fear and love.
Link to my ramblings:
Twokinds [of] data

Grand Templar
Posts: 1155
Joined: Sun Jun 08, 2014 11:19 pm

Re: Mekkan's Early Days

#11 Post by Warrl » Tue Aug 14, 2018 3:11 am

Spoiler! part of Technic[bot]'s spoiler
anyhow they should have "reverted" all planets they tampered with back to its original state, but either they could not,
I seriously doubt that that would be possible if there were a previously-existing biosphere. And if there were not, dragons would not already be present.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Majestic-12 [Bot], steelabjur and 13 guests