New to online text-based RPing, only experience so far didn't go so well; want advice

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Moniker Pending
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New to online text-based RPing, only experience so far didn't go so well; want advice

#1 Post by Moniker Pending »

Hello, everyone! As the title says, I've only been involved in one online text-based roleplaying campaign; I have much more experience with RPs with established rules and ways of calculating things, such as pen and paper RPGs, but my own experience with online text-based roleplaying has been one campaign involving myself and three others on Skype, which ended relatively soon after the campaign began, and in which I didn't quite understand how things were done. As such, I have some observations of what occurred, and I'd like some advice on how to avoid the same problems in the next RP that I end up joining.

1. The RP was set up in a very haphazard and non-detailed manner. I don't know how this stuff usually goes, but when the campaign was initially set up, we basically said "we're in a modern-day city in a setting that allows fantastic elements; let's describe our characters, and then start by having them run into each other." Very few things were established from the beginning. There was no discussion regarding what kind of events we would try to have occur in the campaign, I had to learn after the game started that magic wasn't known about by the public (and thus that my character had no knowledge of it), and plenty of other things had to be established on-the-spot. Somehow, I get the idea that RPing isn't usually this haphazard, and that the fact that this campaign was so haphazard contributed a lot to its early abandonment.

2. During the whole time the RP was going on, everything seemed very unbalanced. The other characters in the group included a young man who was secretly the prince of Hell (a secret even to himself, though he was always an outcast due to the suspicions of locals), and two elite wizard spies with all kinds of magical powers. My own character, however, was an eccentric scientist/engineer, armed with a combat-modified chainsaw, various other gadgets, and several varieties of bombs, as well as some other technology accessed in specific locations (it wasn't really portable), and connections to a local vigilante gang that was protecting the local neighborhood (which had been basically abandoned by the rest of the city). None of that really compares to being able to turn into a huge dragon or being able to turn your enemies to dust with lightning and stuff (both powers had by the wizard spies; the secret demon prince never got a chance to use his powers), and in addition, my character had no knowledge of the demons which were suddenly invading the city, or how to fight them. However, even with my character being severely underpowered compared to the other characters, my character ended up getting the most accomplished: once a bunch of huge demons showed up to take their clueless and scared prince back to Hell, and the wizard spies declared that we were outmatched, my character threw a bunch of smoke bombs so that everyone could escape. While the young man who just found himself in the middle of a demon invasion was moping and wondering why the demons seemed to be after him, and the wizard spies ended up revealing small details about their mission here and there to their newfound party members, my character's the one who led the group to one of the vigilante gang's safehouses in order to prepare for the upcoming adventure and inform the vigilantes of the new threat to the city, and later into the tunnels in order to better move throughout the city. The RP ended soon after we started to move through the tunnels, with demons in pursuit. At the same time, I have a feeling that, once the campaign went beyond my character guiding the others through the city, and into the point of actually having to face the demon threat directly, my character's usefulness would become significantly less than that of the other characters. Also, given that my character was the only one with much involvement in local affairs (the wizard spies were from out-of-town, and the secret demon prince was basically just an orphaned layabout and social outcast), I ended up being the one who introduced and designed many of the more "specific" locations within the city as my character brought the group to them.

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MrFlyingAmoeba
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Re: New to online text-based RPing, only experience so far didn't go so well; want advice

#2 Post by MrFlyingAmoeba »

I love giving my opinion on things! This is a bit quick and dirty, but should suffice as an overview.

Alrighty, biggest thing is communication. Kinda obvious when I put it like that, but you want everyone to be on the same page of expectations.

1) You answered it yourself, the problem is that the RP was haphazardly setup, with little forethought into the plot or setting. This is twice as dangerous when not based on a pre-existing world, since nobody except the GM knows what the lore is, and results in players either tip-toeing around in fear of stomping on something they weren't supposed to do, (Resulting in seriously boring RPs where PCs are unable to characterize themselves because they don't know what even exists to reference) or flying into places the GM never wanted them to go. (Resulting in RPs where the OOC devolves into arguing over what is and isn't allowed)

There really isn't a silver bullet. The GM absolutely needs to have some minimum of setting or everything burns to the ground. (Unless in the rare RP where everything is up for grabs, but those are also difficult to run) On the other hand, have too much and you risk losing players who don't want to read a textbook to play. Here's an example of a GM who put a lot of work into his setting. Some players don't mind reading, and even want such things maximized. Quick note, if you're doing this, make darn sure to format your stuff like that GM did or nobody will bother reading it.

Ultimately, it boils down to the GM communicating what he wants and what the players want. GM needs to establish enough fluff and rules to where players aren't fumbling in the dark, but also leave enough room for them to play with sand. This is a generalized statement, RPs will differ depending on setting and GM.

2) Agh, this is such a frustrating problem too. Again, communication in the OOC prior to the RP starting is critical. It's up to the GM to enforce the hammer of OP justice, but players can also be on guard for other players suddenly developing a case of the Mary Sues. One early standard filter is to have everyone put their character sheets up for approval by the GM before the RP starts in earnest. This allows not only the GM to look it over for overpowered issues, but for other players to bring up points that the GM might have missed. A good RP usually has characters gaining power over time, not starting as beings of ultimate power who can do whatever they want all the time. The objective for players making a character should not be "How do I make myself untouchable?" but "How do I make a character that is fun for myself and others?"
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Re: New to online text-based RPing, only experience so far didn't go so well; want advice

#3 Post by Moniker Pending »

MrFlyingAmoeba wrote:You answered it yourself, the problem is that the RP was haphazardly setup, with little forethought into the plot or setting. This is twice as dangerous when not based on a pre-existing world, since nobody except the GM knows what the lore is, and results in players either tip-toeing around in fear of stomping on something they weren't supposed to do, (Resulting in seriously boring RPs where PCs are unable to characterize themselves because they don't know what even exists to reference) or flying into places the GM never wanted them to go. (Resulting in RPs where the OOC devolves into arguing over what is and isn't allowed)

There really isn't a silver bullet. The GM absolutely needs to have some minimum of setting or everything burns to the ground. (Unless in the rare RP where everything is up for grabs, but those are also difficult to run) On the other hand, have too much and you risk losing players who don't want to read a textbook to play. Here's an example of a GM who put a lot of work into his setting. Some players don't mind reading, and even want such things maximized. Quick note, if you're doing this, make darn sure to format your stuff like that GM did or nobody will bother reading it.

Ultimately, it boils down to the GM communicating what he wants and what the players want. GM needs to establish enough fluff and rules to where players aren't fumbling in the dark, but also leave enough room for them to play with sand. This is a generalized statement, RPs will differ depending on setting and GM.
Well, that's another thing I was wondering about - there was no GM. It was run entirely by the players, who would introduce content themselves, and I guess there was just an understanding that if anyone was out of line, it would be worked out by the players, but none of that was explicitly stated. I suppose I should have made it a bit more clear that this campaign was very different from the pen and paper games that I'm used to. Another difference...
Agh, this is such a frustrating problem too. Again, communication in the OOC prior to the RP starting is critical. It's up to the GM to enforce the hammer of OP justice, but players can also be on guard for other players suddenly developing a case of the Mary Sues. One early standard filter is to have everyone put their character sheets up for approval by the GM before the RP starts in earnest. This allows not only the GM to look it over for overpowered issues, but for other players to bring up points that the GM might have missed. A good RP usually has characters gaining power over time, not starting as beings of ultimate power who can do whatever they want all the time. The objective for players making a character should not be "How do I make myself untouchable?" but "How do I make a character that is fun for myself and others?"
... is that there were no established mechanics, no character sheets, nothing like that. We just described what we were doing, and it happened. Shall I take it that this isn't the way it usually happens?

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Re: New to online text-based RPing, only experience so far didn't go so well; want advice

#4 Post by Geo_&_Bio »

Moniker Pending wrote:
Well, that's another thing I was wondering about - there was no GM. It was run entirely by the players, who would introduce content themselves, and I guess there was just an understanding that if anyone was out of line, it would be worked out by the players, but none of that was explicitly stated. I suppose I should have made it a bit more clear that this campaign was very different from the pen and paper games that I'm used to. Another difference...

... is that there were no established mechanics, no character sheets, nothing like that. We just described what we were doing, and it happened. Shall I take it that this isn't the way it usually happens?

Although text based games are always going to have players reacting to players, rather than GM reacting to players and vice versa, having someone with a clear defined rule set is something that makes a game flowing rather than holding it up and questioning the values of what the other person said or where the heck the story is being taken too. Having a general plot that overhangs rather than forced or nonexistent is something that people tend to like as it allows you to move the story and it allows the players to have their form of freedom. Unlike pen and paper games where the GM literally has to pave the road for the PCs, the players are also contributing in building the world itself, This might be the reason why there was such a weird difference in power levels as two were wizards, one was a demon prince and one was a scientist, without establishing a dotted line story, players will make some weird characters or some really underwhelming characters.

Having some form of mechanic, character sheets, and ect will definitely help organize your group a bit better. It can't really be said that this is all concrete, as it is a player to player novel than a game itself, but it definitely helps if your trying to make something coherent.
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Re: New to online text-based RPing, only experience so far didn't go so well; want advice

#5 Post by Myperson54 »

Not having a GM is, as you might expect, a pretty serious hurdle to organization. Not only are they generally present to move along the plot, they're also in charge of managing some mechanics (if they exist) and organizing/presenting information. There are plenty of times, especially in text-based games, where there are unspoken rules or basic mechanics (e.g. no godmodding, certain playstyles are considered unacceptable, etc.). Generally the players can manage themselves on this, and a GM isn't really necessary. However, they should be there in case something falls between the cracks. A GM is also there for consistency's sake. If there's information the players should know about each other or the game world, the GM is responsible for letting them know. As your example illustrates, leaving information like that unspoken can lead to tons of problems.

So I'd say having a GM is rather important. They help enforce consistency in both play and information. That brings me to your second question: Do there need to be set mechanics like in a regular tabletop?

Probably not. In fact, almost definitely not - I haven't seen anyone here use actual dice in their games so far, with the exception of Roll to Dodge, and that hardly qualifies as "mechanics". Most text-based RPs on a forum will require some form of character sheet, but in all likelihood, it won't list stats. At most, one would expect to find a profession or proficiency on a forum character sheet, and the player for that character would be expected to act accordingly. There are generally no hard rules outside the believable though; If I'm playing a mechanic, I know how to fix an engine, but not perhaps any more than basic first aid. I'm not going to cure a disease with my skills. I don't need stats or a random number generator to tell me that.

Some people do like to use stats in their games, and I plan on using a die-roller in a game I'm preparing, but for the most part I wouldn't worry about "mechanics"; it's mostly character acting.

Coming full circle, you can have consistency without having hard stats, rules, or mechanics, and that's what a GM is for. They monitor and establish what is and what is not acceptable in their game. If you just write what makes sense in-character, the GM will sort out anything weird.

EDIT:
Geo makes some very good points; I stand by what I said of course, but he mentions that having hard mechanics can help a game flow well. That's one of the issues I have with forum roleplays that I'm actually trying to address in designing my future game setting. What's the perfect amount of structure for text? I don't know yet, but I agree with Geo - having some structure helps.
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Moniker Pending
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Re: New to online text-based RPing, only experience so far didn't go so well; want advice

#6 Post by Moniker Pending »

So... shall I take it that the RP I was in was just a poorly-made RP, and that most text-based RPs have structure which the RP I was in had lacked, and usually don't have the same problems as a result?

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Re: New to online text-based RPing, only experience so far didn't go so well; want advice

#7 Post by MrFlyingAmoeba »

Unfortunately they still have issues similar to what you did, but they're less overwhelming, yep.
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Re: New to online text-based RPing, only experience so far didn't go so well; want advice

#8 Post by Geo_&_Bio »

Myperson54 wrote: Probably not. In fact, almost definitely not - I haven't seen anyone here use actual dice in their games so far, with the exception of Roll to Dodge, and that hardly qualifies as "mechanics". Most text-based RPs on a forum will require some form of character sheet, but in all likelihood, it won't list stats.

Some people do like to use stats in their games, and I plan on using a die-roller in a game I'm preparing, but for the most part I wouldn't worry about "mechanics"; it's mostly character acting.
Oh how I wish there was some form of Dice mechanic already established in the forums, or at least a custom mechanic for the RP forums. Oh, how I wish I could set up a 25 point buy pathfinder game on the forums.

Myperson54 wrote:EDIT:
Geo makes some very good points; I stand by what I said of course, but he mentions that having hard mechanics can help a game flow well. That's one of the issues I have with forum roleplays that I'm actually trying to address in designing my future game setting. What's the perfect amount of structure for text? I don't know yet, but I agree with Geo - having some structure helps.
I wouldn't really say hard mechanics, just mechanics in general. Setting up parameters is usually a good sign of what people can and cannot do as well as trying to see how far we can go before we hit a wall. Although, having some form of dice rolling system that everyone can visibly see and contribute towards would probably help as people probably wont make these weird overpowered posts that make you say "Really, guy? What the heck?"

Moniker Pending wrote:So... shall I take it that the RP I was in was just a poorly-made RP, and that most text-based RPs have structure which the RP I was in had lacked, and usually don't have the same problems as a result?
Eh, it was your first game and going from a pen and paper game to a text based game is pretty rough. Hopefully you take what we say with a grain of salt and learn from past experiences. I know I had my troubles setting up my first text based game with "The World Wars", a horrific contraption that I built that barely even made it past page 1. The problem is that the GM kind of needs to push the players a bit, but not to much like a pen and paper or free roam like said pen and paper. It is a very difficult process to nail down and some people have managed to create epics based on the simplest of premises or with epic proportions; while others seems to either try far to hard or don't try at all and fail miserably. I know many of us RP forum vets seem to suffer the 5 pages of death. Like ameoba stated, it still has problems as it requires every single player to contribute to writing this story, but it is far less overwhelming. It probably works rather well with people you actually know as you can write at a rather consistent rate rather waiting for anon to contribute and the story falls because someone missed a bit of detail or just left entirely without notice.
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