Last Man Posting

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Bellhead
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Re: Last Man Posting

#15226 Post by Bellhead »

Huh... Now that I'm looking for it, I can't find it.. But there was a comic page, and I'm pretty sure it was between Keith and Natani, where one punched the other in the face (with tongue sticking out) and "blep" was the sound effect for it. Probably been retconned. Eh.

But yeah. With the advent of technology and the beyond rapid integration of it, culture took a major turn, at least here in the US. My father was in school in the '70s, and he was told that with their current rate of technological advancement, we'd all have flying cars and we'd talk to each other on our handheld wireless video phones, all by the year 2000. It is now 2021. I still want my flying car.

But I digress. My point was supposed to be Star Wars. Back when that first came out, science fiction (strictly speaking) was the genre relating to seeing how society functions differently in a different environment. It just so happened that it was easiest to consider that on other planets. Klingons, for instance, were a warrior race, solely derived from fighting and physical strength. It's how Star Trek got away with Kirk kissing Ahura, which was the first interracial kiss on network television, and they got a LOT of flak for it, even though it was on-genre.

Anyway. Back in that era, the only special effects anyone could use were cardboard backgrounds, green screen, and cheap props, because the technology just wasn't there. Star Wars IV was the first movie, ever, to attempt that level of special effects. Fire, floating ships, laser beams and explosions... They broke a lot of boundaries with it. From what I understand, that's just one of the reasons it made such an impact, in addition to Lucasfilm (and now Disney *shudder*) making more of them.
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Re: Last Man Posting

#15227 Post by Neutral Smith »

Modern movies also lack good writing. I really agreed with https://youtu.be/CQ92cggLMx8 The Critical Drinker - Why Modern Movies Suck - They're Written By Children (some strong language... but that can be expected of a drinker)
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Re: Last Man Posting

#15228 Post by Technic[Bot] »

My problem with modern cinema is that they are completely terrified or trying anything new. They just rehash the same stories over and over. Sometimes they do not even try to hide with and reboot old stuff. Worst part is that audience rewards them and punish any production that tries anything novel

That is why I don't watch movies or tv anymore...
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Re: Last Man Posting

#15229 Post by Bellhead »

Finally got a chance to watch that. Now I want to watch Dune.

But he's right, though. I remember watching one of the later Michael Bay Transformers movies and thinking, "there's nothing but special effects", and the remembering the first one, and thinking, "this kid's just an old toddler". Even the new Terminator movie had almost no substance, just a lot of special effects and swearing. That was really all I got out of it.

And on that note, I would like to remind the world of the era of cheesy special effects, crappy CGI and obviously fake backgrounds. Modern effects draw your attention to the appearance and away from the writing, by appearing impressive. Older, cheaper effects, done properly, will use good writing to make your mind bridge the gap in the Uncanny Valley, thus improving its overall appearance and storytelling capability. Tremors 1, Terminator 1, Jurassic Park.. Even the original Star Wars, had some of the shoddiest special effects I've seen to date, yet I wouldn't hesitate to watch them again.

Seeing that First Gen. Star Trek Enterprise hanging from strings in the cut-scenes, or seeing an inverted Zippo in the background of the original Thunderbirds in marionation, really drives home the fact that they were focused on the story and how to tell it, rather than making the image itself look perfect. *snerk* There was a scene in Lost In Space (the show, not the movie) where a villain was literally wearing oven mitts.

Sidenote, the original Lost In Space had this character that I'm too lazy to look up, but he was this ditzy stowaway guy who basically just caused problems. He was a detestable character, but the actor who played him did an absolutely phenomenal job. As in, "I LOVE how well this actor is able to play this thoroughly terrible role." That sort of thing just can't happen anymore.
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Re: Last Man Posting

#15230 Post by Tornir »

Bellhead wrote: Fri Nov 05, 2021 12:36 am ////
Sidenote, the original Lost In Space had this character that I'm too lazy to look up, but he was this ditzy stowaway guy who basically just caused problems. He was a detestable character, but the actor who played him did an absolutely phenomenal job. As in, "I LOVE how well this actor is able to play this thoroughly terrible role." That sort of thing just can't happen any more.
Sounds like Dr Smith.
*looks him up*
Yep, that's him.
Seems he was supposed to have been a boring, disposable, stock bad guy/plot device, but he took to off-script ad-libbing and made himself a central character.

Do you remember Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea? There was a scene in that where the giant monster attacking the sub was a rubber glove with seaweed stuck to it. They filmed the sub upside down in a fish tank, with the SFX guy reaching down into the tank with the glove to grab the sub and shake it around. The footage was then rotated 180 degrees, and played backwards, so the "monster" appeared to be rising from the depths, and the bubbles were travelling in the right direction.

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Re: Last Man Posting

#15231 Post by Bellhead »

Ah, the good old days... Get the same effect with $10 and some duct tape, as spending several thousand, if not tens of thousands, on CGI. Creativity really has gone downhill.
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Re: Last Man Posting

#15232 Post by Tornir »

CGI is safer and more reliable though.
Gerry Anderson lost a few Thunderbird models when the reusable Jetex solid fuel model rocket motors they used for take-off and landing effects failed.

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Re: Last Man Posting

#15233 Post by Bellhead »

That's part of the thrill! CGI fire and explosions will never compare to the real thing!

That's why Star Wars explosions look so out-of-place. They were real.
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Re: Last Man Posting

#15234 Post by Tornir »

Bellhead wrote: Fri Nov 05, 2021 5:08 pm That's part of the thrill! CGI fire and explosions will never compare to the real thing!

That's why Star Wars explosions look so out-of-place. They were real.
I think part of the problem here is that now they do compare with "the real thing".
Historically, films would create real explosions, but they were explosions that looked impressive but had no teeth. They didn't want the cast and crew in hospital (or the morgue) with blast and shrapnel injuries.
Now they can drop a 1000lb bomb on the building behind the actors using chroma key, and it will look and have all the effects of a real 1000lb bomb. They can also have CGI extras ripped to shreds by debris and blast. Dunno if it's true, but someone joked that medical students go to watch 18-rated war movies to see if the CGI guy did a good job simulating all the internal organs that get sent flying.

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Re: Last Man Posting

#15235 Post by Technic[Bot] »

I don't remember where I read it but i am under the impression star wars CGI budget was significant specially for that time.

Also i do agree that practical can end up better than shoddy chi bit there is still a los of talented people working on computer graphics that actually produce some outstanding visuals. (For example videogames are 100 computer graphics)

Most tv explosion are not real "explosions" even when practical they general just use burning gasoline and good cinematography to simulate the feel of the boom.

Real explosions demolition or otherwise tend to be very strong but visually unappealing. As they consume all oxygen on the are there is no fire

It is the other way around CGI artist, mortal Kombat is a documented example. Do scour the web for graphic imagery so they can recreate it on the screen. Why would a med student do that? On my local university they get a real corpse they get to take apart.
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Re: Last Man Posting

#15236 Post by Tornir »

I don't think the the original 1977 Star Wars used any CGI, it was all models, painted backdrops overlaid on the scene, and hand retouched prints. The targetting systems in the fighter cockpits were (IIRC) computer generated. That was about the best you could get from a computer in those days, a lot of kit back then didn't even have VDU capability.
It's been redone now, so DVDs and cinema re-releases do have CGI in places. If you could find an old VHS copy (and something to play it on), you'd be able to see the changes.

The med student thing is supposedly so they can laugh at the SFX errors; visible organs that are the wrong shape or in the wrong place, injuries that would've severed a major blood vessel and (messily) killed the victim in seconds being non-fatal, symptoms that don't match up with injuries, etc.
Military veterans are supposedly also known for sighing and shaking their heads at the things actors do in a "war zone".

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Re: Last Man Posting

#15237 Post by Technic[Bot] »

Sorry I misspoke.

What I tried to say was:
"star wars special effects budget was significant specially for that time"

Not sure. Some doctors spend several hours taking people apart and putting people together i think they would find boring watching some poorly rendered innards after they spent 7 hours inside a real person. My dad is a medic and rarely saw graphic movies, that i know of, but he was fond of watching plastic surgery tv shows.
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Re: Last Man Posting

#15238 Post by Bellhead »

Nothing quite like walking into the shop on a Monday morning to find that some Sales guy bumped the heat up, and the heat and AC have been fighting each other all weekend.

Gods, I hate stupid people.
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Re: Last Man Posting

#15239 Post by Neutral Smith »

God sent stupid people as the next plague.
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Re: Last Man Posting

#15240 Post by Bellhead »

I've figured that part out, at least. The issue is, we developed a tolerance before it took hold. Now even the stupidest of people can live as part of civilized society.
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