Comic for May 3, 2023: Windows to the Soul

[S'aaruuk]

You beat me to it but I was going to state that King Adelaide pointed out in their conversation that 'femininity' and 'strength' were not mutually exclusive terms.

[Ainoko Ironrose]

You beat me to it but I was going to state that King Adelaide pointed out in their conversation that 'femininity' and 'strength' were not mutually exclusive terms.

So much this!

[Tyger42]

*cough* He-wolf. There is no indication as of yet that Natani doesn't still identify as male.

Except that Nat's gender confusion was due to her brother's mind/soul within her own mind/soul. With the link now severed, her own femininity should/will resurface with force.

Also, IIRC at one time she and Keith were discussing her "appendages" and I believe she invited him with "You wanna touch 'em"? Don't remember the page, but I remember the line.

"Gender confusion"? Now we're carting out straight up TERF terminology? Even if that's not how you meant it, it's phrasing that's best to stay away from.

There have been indications Nat might have ended up identifying male anyway, the link with her brother just gave the push. Regardless, until it's stated otherwise, it'd be inappropriate to refer to Nat as a girl.

[Neutral Smith]

We'll see how it works out without an external (Zen) influence.

[S'aaruuk]

*cough* He-wolf. There is no indication as of yet that Natani doesn't still identify as male.

Except that Nat's gender confusion was due to her brother's mind/soul within her own mind/soul. With the link now severed, her own femininity should/will resurface with force.

Also, IIRC at one time she and Keith were discussing her "appendages" and I believe she invited him with "You wanna touch 'em"? Don't remember the page, but I remember the line.

"Gender confusion"? Now we're carting out straight up TERF terminology? Even if that's not how you meant it, it's phrasing that's best to stay away from.

There have been indications Nat might have ended up identifying male anyway, the link with her brother just gave the push. Regardless, until it's stated otherwise, it'd be inappropriate to refer to Nat as a girl.

Relax Tyger...no one's "carting out" any TERF terminology as you put it. Please remember that Messenger Lynn even referred to Natani as "Confused wolf" when asking for the documents declaring Keith as an ambassador. Don't recall the actual page, but clearly remember the scene.

[Rakaydos]

*cough* He-wolf. There is no indication as of yet that Natani doesn't still identify as male.

Except that Nat's gender confusion was due to her brother's mind/soul within her own mind/soul. With the link now severed, her own femininity should/will resurface with force.

Also, IIRC at one time she and Keith were discussing her "appendages" and I believe she invited him with "You wanna touch 'em"? Don't remember the page, but I remember the line.

"Gender confusion"? Now we're carting out straight up TERF terminology? Even if that's not how you meant it, it's phrasing that's best to stay away from.

There have been indications Nat might have ended up identifying male anyway, the link with her brother just gave the push. Regardless, until it's stated otherwise, it'd be inappropriate to refer to Nat as a girl.

Relax Tyger...no one's "carting out" any TERF terminology as you put it. Please remember that Messenger Lynn even referred to Natani as "Confused wolf" when asking for the documents declaring Keith as an ambassador. Don't recall the actual page, but clearly remember the scene.

Natani has never been confused about his gender. It hasnt matched his sex in years, but he's never been confused about it. Other people just project their own confusion (guy? but boobs!) onto him.

[Bellhead]

*cough* He-wolf. There is no indication as of yet that Natani doesn't still identify as male.

Except that Nat's gender confusion was due to her brother's mind/soul within her own mind/soul. With the link now severed, her own femininity should/will resurface with force.

Also, IIRC at one time she and Keith were discussing her "appendages" and I believe she invited him with "You wanna touch 'em"? Don't remember the page, but I remember the line.

"Gender confusion"? Now we're carting out straight up TERF terminology? Even if that's not how you meant it, it's phrasing that's best to stay away from.

There have been indications Nat might have ended up identifying male anyway, the link with her brother just gave the push. Regardless, until it's stated otherwise, it'd be inappropriate to refer to Nat as a girl.

Relax Tyger...no one's "carting out" any TERF terminology as you put it. Please remember that Messenger Lynn even referred to Natani as "Confused wolf" when asking for the documents declaring Keith as an ambassador. Don't recall the actual page, but clearly remember the scene.

Natani has never been confused about his gender. It hasnt matched his sex in years, but he's never been confused about it. Other people just project their own confusion (guy? but boobs!) onto him.

From the original comic description: "A webcomic about a clueless hero, a mischievous tiger, an angsty warrior, and a gender confused wolf." So no, nobody's projecting, that is literally Nat's original description. I'll also cite this page and Natani's own reference sheet ("fun fact" in the bottom right). Natani has repeatedly and continually suppressed facets of his personality that would indicate femininity, which isn't something you do when you have full confidence in your own identity.

For instance, I am male, I identify as male, and I always have. I typically grow my hair out during winter for the warmth, and one year I decided to put it into a ponytail braid for a while just because. It looked quite feminine, I won't lie, but I felt quite comfortable wearing it because I had full confidence in my own gender identity. If I had any doubts, I never would have done something so unmistakably feminine. Natani, on the other hand, continually avoids feminine acts, appearances and mannerisms. Psychologically speaking, if he really were completely confident in his gender identity, he wouldn't do such things when in a safe and comfortable environment. Take his singing, for example. It's not like he doesn't have a desire to, but because it sounds so feminine, regardless of his skill, he chooses not to.

Let me ask you this:
For the males, would you be able to feel comfortable while walking around wearing a wig in the cold simply because it feels warm? Would you feel confident in your masculinity while wearing a pink sweater with hearts on it, outside of February?
And for the females, would you still feel feminine if you wore loose fitting jeans and a tee shirt with short hair in front of other women?

Short answer, no, probably not, because there are very few people who are comfortable enough to do such things and still have absolute confidence in their own gender identity. The less comfortable you are, the more you would flat-out refuse the activity, and the more comfortable you are, the more open you would be to trying such an act. Either you accept a non-conforming part of your personality as a part of yourself you are comfortable with, or you do such with full confidence that it doesn't represent who you are. The only reason one would refuse to partake, would be if they believed it would change who they were in some way.

[Warrl]

In the scene where Natani was addressed as "confused wolf" - Keith's Trial (part 1 part 2) - there were plenty of other things he could, and probably would, have been confused about. Like the fact that he's apparently in the middle of a trial being conducted in a language he doesn't understand, and apparently people are talking about him... Like the fact that in the middle of the trial Keith pulled out a sword...

[Tyger42]

Relax Tyger...no one's "carting out" any TERF terminology as you put it. Please remember that Messenger Lynn even referred to Natani as "Confused wolf" when asking for the documents declaring Keith as an ambassador. Don't recall the actual page, but clearly remember the scene.

"Confused wolf" =/= "Gender confused". That specific term is one I have only ever seen used by transphobes to try to invalidate our identity, passing off "transgenderism" ( another term that I only see used by transphobes ) as a mental illness.

Not sure if Lynn meant Natani's gender or not. Nat was confused by a lot at that moment. Even if it was what Lynn meant, maybe pointing to a conservative old codger's use of the term isn't the defense of it you think it is.

I do find it interesting that rather than say perhaps "Oh, I didn't realize that phrasing was offensive," ( even when I acknowledge you may not have meant it that way ) your response was to double down.

[Tyger42]

From the original comic description: "A webcomic about a clueless hero, a mischievous tiger, an angsty warrior, and a gender confused wolf." So no, nobody's projecting, that is literally Nat's original description.

You think perhaps there's a reason that phrasing isn't used in the description anymore?

I'll also cite this page

Natani is having the same struggle most men have if they realize for the first time they're attracted to another man. I'll go a step further and speculate that homosexuality wasn't even something he was aware was a thing.

and Natani's own reference sheet ("fun fact" in the bottom right). Natani has repeatedly and continually suppressed facets of his personality that would indicate femininity, which isn't something you do when you have full confidence in your own identity.

For instance, I am male, I identify as male, and I always have. I typically grow my hair out during winter for the warmth, and one year I decided to put it into a ponytail braid for a while just because. It looked quite feminine, I won't lie, but I felt quite comfortable wearing it because I had full confidence in my own gender identity. If I had any doubts, I never would have done something so unmistakably feminine. Natani, on the other hand, continually avoids feminine acts, appearances and mannerisms. Psychologically speaking, if he really were completely confident in his gender identity, he wouldn't do such things when in a safe and comfortable environment. Take his singing, for example. It's not like he doesn't have a desire to, but because it sounds so feminine, regardless of his skill, he chooses not to.

Let me ask you this:
For the males, would you be able to feel comfortable while walking around wearing a wig in the cold simply because it feels warm? Would you feel confident in your masculinity while wearing a pink sweater with hearts on it, outside of February?
And for the females, would you still feel feminine if you wore loose fitting jeans and a tee shirt with short hair in front of other women?

Short answer, no, probably not, because there are very few people who are comfortable enough to do such things and still have absolute confidence in their own gender identity. The less comfortable you are, the more you would flat-out refuse the activity, and the more comfortable you are, the more open you would be to trying such an act. Either you accept a non-conforming part of your personality as a part of yourself you are comfortable with, or you do such with full confidence that it doesn't represent who you are. The only reason one would refuse to partake, would be if they believed it would change who they were in some way.

You....really know nothing about trans people, do you? Trans women usually try to suppress masculine features and trans men usually try to suppress their feminine features. Go look up gender dysphoria. Not all trans people experience it to the same degree ( or at all ), but it's not uncommon for it to be the source of severe anxiety, depression, and even outright s*icidal ideations.

[Bellhead]

You....really know nothing about trans people, do you? Trans women usually try to suppress masculine features and trans men usually try to suppress their feminine features. Go look up gender dysphoria. Not all trans people experience it to the same degree ( or at all ), but it's not uncommon for it to be the source of severe anxiety, depression, and even outright s*icidal ideations.

I won't deny that I don't know much, and I'm not an expert on trans ideology by any stretch, but I was not referring to them. I was referring to those with their sex and gender being the same. I know it's different for trans people, and I know it's complicated beyond my comprehension, which is why I never brought it up. Also, the discussion of whether or not Natani is considered "trans" has raged for over a decade, with solid arguments on each side from trans and non-trans alike. As far as I'm concerned, Natani is female, identifies and is referred to as male, and is attracted to Keith regardless of gender. Nat's case is rather specific, and unique by our standards, which is why I never got into that argument.

That said, my point still stands. If you feel the need to prove something about yourself, then you inherently have some lack of absolute confidence in that part of yourself. Natani has the strength of a strong warrior and the body of a woman. He has a wonderful singing voice, but refuses to use it because of how others from his past would have heard it. However, in the company of Keith, alone at night when he's comfortable enough to fondle his own breasts, I see no reason for him to refuse to sing, even something as simple as a lullaby.

Granted, that might change as the two grow closer, but it's things like that that tell me that Natani isn't solidly one or the other, but a bit of both to some degree. That's why I said "tomboy". With that in mind, if Natani was fully and absolutely confident that he was completely male, he wouldn't worry about doing things seen as feminine, and would either accept those parts of himself (as he has been learning to do), or acknowledge that they have nothing to do with how he really feels (which he knows they actually do).

[Hayate]

Hey everyone, I’m just gonna go ahead and put out a warning that everyone needs to calm down and drop the heated gender debate. This isn’t the place for a shouting match.

[Thomas Rot]

Natani: (thoughts) The missing part of my soul...



Might this shadow above Reni's wing be what she's referring to? Did Clovis steal a fragment when making the link years ago? It seems Clovis' levitation gives Nat a connection to him, or maybe he kept hold of her end of the snapped link.
And is that Youngtani lending a hand in the attack (the first inset)? Not quite fully integrated yet at that instant.

And this re-raises a question/speculation I had weeks ago, if he reverts to fox (or better yet, vixen), what does the dragon damage translate to?

If that shadow in Clovis’ mindscape were the missing fragment, Natani wouldn't be able to access it even now. He doesn't have access to Clovis’ mind at the moment.

It looks like the seer's cat so I assume it is a representation of All-Brahn Breakfast Cereal being able to monitor what Clovis is up to using whatever linky magic is going on with the amulet.