Comic for November 20, 2021: Meeting of Monarchs

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Tiennos
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Re: Comic for November 20, 2021: Meeting of Monarchs

#31 Post by Tiennos »

IHeartMaeve wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 5:25 pm
Tiennos wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:25 pm
Sky Shatter wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 4:09 am Ooooo... It's a major accomplishment when an author can make the reader really hate the bad guy, instead of just love to hate them. Kudos to Tom.
Well in this case it's the opposite. I hope Clovis gets killed soon because I find him boring and badly written and I just want the story to move on.
I disagree. He actually has a ton of half-decent offscreen lore about him, like his hatred of women partly stemming from his half-fox heritage, which is from his mother's side of the family.

I don't remember much else, but the point is, some characters are far deeper than they appear to be at face value, and you shouldn't judge just by the onscreen info.
Okay, maybe he's interesting offscreen but I've only read the comic, so all I got was a guy whose character can be summed up with "evil greedy cartoon villain." His plan to rescue his underlings was secretly a plan to kill them which was secretly a plan to lure the dragon which might be part of another plan (and I'm calling it right now: getting the guys captured in the first place was secretly part of the plan all along). All of that with no foreshadowing which makes it look like he has the secret ability to pull stuff out of his [censored] when convenient.

If you enjoy this character then good for you, but I certainly don't.
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Bellhead
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Re: Comic for November 20, 2021: Meeting of Monarchs

#32 Post by Bellhead »

Bellhead wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 1:47 pm Note the map shown here, and the distances between their stops. I remember somebody, probably Eric, saying that the return trip would be shorter than their trip out, and their trip out was a little less than a month. I seem to remember them talking about it specifically, but I can't find the page...
Found it!

It was Eric that said it, just off camera. I KNEW I wasn't crazy.
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Starcat5
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Re: Comic for November 20, 2021: Meeting of Monarchs

#33 Post by Starcat5 »

All these people talking about Clovis getting dusted and possessing Reni's body. An I the only one expecting him to come out of this as some kind of anti-Adrakist? All the power he ever wanted, but now looking like a fox-dragon? And possibly still female? I know a good number here just want him gone, but I would rather see the Seer's pawn who was sent off to get knocked off the board, to turn around and be a bigger problem for the Templars than for Nat and Zen. A chaotic third party that ruins everyone's day. Like a busty, Dragon-Fox Joker.
Bellhead wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 3:17 am Found it!

It was Eric that said it, just off camera. I KNEW I wasn't crazy.
Oh trust me, you are crazy. You just aren't wrong. :twisted:

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Tornir
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Re: Comic for November 20, 2021: Meeting of Monarchs

#34 Post by Tornir »

We still don't yet know the exact nature of the link between Clovis and Reni. Some are speculating that his body is gone, and this is some degree of possession, but that would mean if Reni (or anyone else) forced him out, he'd be dead. I can't see a narcissist like him going for a plan with no exit strategy. Also, Reni's female, and Clovis is a pretty big misogynist.
I think, like in TDM, he wants to be back at his desk at the guild, pulling the strings in safety.

Now, what is it that he wants?
He could be wanting to use Reni's magic, combined with his greater knowledge, to reverse the transformation Nora cursed him with (he could be using an illusion spell to appear male)

I don't think he'd try simply using Reni to fight Nora, that's got no hope of success. But...
What if he's setting a trap? Last time, Nora joined the link and kicked him out, what if he's lined up something that would let him possess Nora if/when she does that with Reni?

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Bellhead
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Re: Comic for November 20, 2021: Meeting of Monarchs

#35 Post by Bellhead »

Starcat5 wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 8:11 am snip
Bellhead wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 3:17 am Found it!

It was Eric that said it, just off camera. I KNEW I wasn't crazy.
Oh trust me, you are crazy. You just aren't wrong. :twisted:
... True.

In regards to your theory, I disagree. With that level of power, in Reni's body he'd have transformation abilities, and in his own he'd still have his current appearance, even after changing his gender. He might go out hunting dragons, but there's no reason for him to go hunting adrakists.

Though, to be fair, I could also see him going after the Templar if he thinks Brahn tried to set him up. But as we see here, he's too greedy and selfish for revenge based genocide. I just don't think it matches his character.
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tony1695
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Re: Comic for November 20, 2021: Meeting of Monarchs

#36 Post by tony1695 »

I think this is just Clovis going for some revenge by proxy. Subjugating a dragon, bending a being that even the gods have trouble with to his will? One that can take any form he wants, either the perfect bodyguard or bedroom partner? The [censored] has an ego the size of the moon, it certainly tracks, and he definitely seems petty enough. Sure, it's not the dragon responsible for his predicament, but it's the next best thing.
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Starcat5
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Re: Comic for November 20, 2021: Meeting of Monarchs

#37 Post by Starcat5 »

Bellhead wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 9:19 am In regards to your theory, I disagree. With that level of power, in Reni's body he'd have transformation abilities, and in his own he'd still have his current appearance, even after changing his gender. He might go out hunting dragons, but there's no reason for him to go hunting adrakists.

Though, to be fair, I could also see him going after the Templar if he thinks Brahn tried to set him up. But as we see here, he's too greedy and selfish for revenge based genocide. I just don't think it matches his character.
I never said that he would be hunting Adrakists. I said that he would be an ANTI-Adrakist. As in, a dark reflection. Adrakists are humans (usually) with scaly limbs who worships Dragons. Clovis would throw a party if he learned that Dragons had gone extinct! And yeah, he'll probably wind up being a male Fox-Wolf again. I was just hoping he'd suffer a Monkey's Paw scenario.

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Re: Comic for November 20, 2021: Meeting of Monarchs

#38 Post by Bellhead »

Starcat5 wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 12:35 pm
Bellhead wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 9:19 am In regards to your theory, I disagree. With that level of power, in Reni's body he'd have transformation abilities, and in his own he'd still have his current appearance, even after changing his gender. He might go out hunting dragons, but there's no reason for him to go hunting adrakists.

Though, to be fair, I could also see him going after the Templar if he thinks Brahn tried to set him up. But as we see here, he's too greedy and selfish for revenge based genocide. I just don't think it matches his character.
I never said that he would be hunting Adrakists. I said that he would be an ANTI-Adrakist. As in, a dark reflection. Adrakists are humans (usually) with scaly limbs who worships Dragons. Clovis would throw a party if he learned that Dragons had gone extinct! And yeah, he'll probably wind up being a male Fox-Wolf again. I was just hoping he'd suffer a Monkey's Paw scenario.
Ah. Miscommunication. I thought you meant Anti-Adrakist as "against Adrakists", like anti-war, or anti-technology. I would have used "reverse Adrakist" instead, being the backward version, the opposite of worship. Makes more sense now.
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MaverickMopete
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Re: Comic for November 20, 2021: Meeting of Monarchs

#39 Post by MaverickMopete »

tony1695 wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 9:48 am The [censored] has an ego the size of the moon,
That's a terrible underestimation. He has an ego the size of the universe, which he believes revolves around him.

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Re: Comic for November 20, 2021: Meeting of Monarchs

#40 Post by Warrl »

MaverickMopete wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:51 pm
tony1695 wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 9:48 am The [censored] has an ego the size of the moon,
That's a terrible underestimation. He has an ego the size of the universe, which he believes revolves around him.
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Re: Comic for November 20, 2021: Meeting of Monarchs

#41 Post by Rafe »

Considering his "universe-sized ego", an especially evil motive ocurred to me, wondering just what Clovis meant when he told Reni "I'm here for you."

He earlier implied that he was going to capture certain females (Natani was one example) and use them as his personal sex slaves.
Could it be that he's threatening something like that for Reni?

When massive amounts of magic (and ego) are involved, anything could be possible. The details could be interesting.

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Thomas Rot
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Re: Comic for November 20, 2021: Meeting of Monarchs

#42 Post by Thomas Rot »

He's here for Reni as well? OK, she's been here ever since everyone arrived on the first night, but unless Breakfast Cereal has been sharing that info with him as well, how does Clovis know that?

Even if he planned for her to be there, his words when first meeting Reni don't read like "Good evening, Miss Reni, I've been expecting you", they read how any random person would react if a dragon unexpectedly crashed their personal moment with a dying loved one. Did he just hope to stick around long enough to attract Reni before anyone else showed up and raised the alarm? And how on earth does "We have very little time" fit into his apparent plans for something he didn't even bother informing his henchmen about, even as vaguely as he mentioned Brutus to them?

Anyway with Clovis' dialogue here it sounds thankfully like he won't be thinking about Nat or Zen or other priorities while he has a chance to fix himself. And since he is now technically communicating with her by reading her mind, and is hardly in control of the entire magical apparatus of his shiny new toy, it's possible he can't think about anything else. Reminder that whenever Reni reads people's minds, or Nora in the Clovis mindscape in TDM, there's a visual marker of their eyes glowing and apparently focusing exclusively on the mindreading (in Reni's case at least, Nora is too OP'd to come to a reasonable conclusion about that). So there may be a small window of opportunity, once Raine or whoever realises that a dragon losing their magic means they don't stand a chance against whoever could do that, for them to take cover somewhere… obviously not the dungeons though, so no chance anyone else notices Brutus for the moment. Not a great situation for the beach party but at the very least Clovis might actually be too distracted to take them out immediately.

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Re: Comic for November 20, 2021: Meeting of Monarchs

#43 Post by Technic[Bot] »

Thomas Rot wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 1:38 pm He's here for Reni as well? OK, she's been here ever since everyone arrived on the first night, but unless Breakfast Cereal has been sharing that info with him as well, how does Clovis know that?

Even if he planned for her to be there, his words when first meeting Reni don't read like "Good evening, Miss Reni, I've been expecting you", they read how any random person would react if a dragon unexpectedly crashed their personal moment with a dying loved one. Did he just hope to stick around long enough to attract Reni before anyone else showed up and raised the alarm? And how on earth does "We have very little time" fit into his apparent plans for something he didn't even bother informing his henchmen about, even as vaguely as he mentioned Brutus to them?

Anyway with Clovis' dialogue here it sounds thankfully like he won't be thinking about Nat or Zen or other priorities while he has a chance to fix himself. And since he is now technically communicating with her by reading her mind, and is hardly in control of the entire magical apparatus of his shiny new toy, it's possible he can't think about anything else. Reminder that whenever Reni reads people's minds, or Nora in the Clovis mindscape in TDM, there's a visual marker of their eyes glowing and apparently focusing exclusively on the mindreading (in Reni's case at least, Nora is too OP'd to come to a reasonable conclusion about that). So there may be a small window of opportunity, once Raine or whoever realises that a dragon losing their magic means they don't stand a chance against whoever could do that, for them to take cover somewhere… obviously not the dungeons though, so no chance anyone else notices Brutus for the moment. Not a great situation for the beach party but at the very least Clovis might actually be too distracted to take them out immediately.
The wolves that attacked Edinmire dressed as templar were Clovis men. That is how she knows Reni was in town.

Anyhow she is a 20 ton royal dragon even if she didn't showed up to defend it would be hard to keep a low profile as that
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