Comic for July 12, 2020: The Rose Garden

[Bellhead]

Back on topic. As for the Heart's Desire angle..
I wonder if Trace would use his own memory of Saria for that, or if he would try to bring her soul back and put it in Maren's body. That said, Heart's Desire was a spell designed for assassination, and like all spells, requires a power source. Under normal circumstances, it would drain from the person whose desire was used. Assume Trace found a way around that somehow, and we're left wondering just how much power that spell uses, given that it nearly killed Keith -a BASITIN- in mere hours, possibly less. Would he be able to maintain such a major mana drain indefinitely? Or would he simply "program" Maren's body to run it? Moreover, would he have been happy knowing that it wasn't really her? It just doesn't seem likely to me.

I have been thinking about this a little. Do we know what all these towers are supposed to do? I'd say that whatever they do, they should be able to power Heart's Desire as well wherever Trace wants to go with his replacement wife within human lands. In addition on what he told the other Templars they would do.
Heart's Desire has a few advantages the problem of resurrecting someone aside. His Saria, his Heart's Desire would understand what he has done to Rose and the Keidran and forgive him. From what we've seen? There was a lot I don't think the real Saria would forgive him. Understand, maybe, forgive? I doubt.
Considering how her death changed him, he might not mind that it's not the real Saria. A good enough replica might satisfy him, even if it didn't have a soul. Remember how reluctant Keith was to let the illusion of Laura go? Now take someone who wants the illusion.
As I said, we'll see.

No, officially we don't know what the towers' unterior purpose was. On the surface, they simply supply Templar with mana of a greater capacity than one could manage on their own, though we don't know what would happen to one if it drained all available mana from an area. The theory sprung up quite a while back, that the dark mana brought up at that point was what was driving the Templar crazy, but with this current page, I think Trace had been using it to build that giant dark crystal above Rose, for whatever reason.

That said, the main reason Keith wouldn't let Laura's illusion go, was that he believed it more than an illusion, and it may well have been, but the point is that he no longer knew it was an illusion. Trace knows Saria would not want him to go through all this, and I doubt he would accept her forgiveness, or understanding, were she to find out what he did, knowing full well the real Saria never would. As crazy as he was, he would not settle for a simple illusion, or he would not have gone through all this trouble.

After all, the main purpose of that spell is simply to convince someone to lower their guard. If he just wanted something that looked like her, without actually being her (which I would find deplorable but far better than this), he would have built something -or someone, probably with Nora's help- that would immitate her. And he would not have needed dark magic to do that. The more I think about it, it just doesn't make sense, with how far he went.

[steelabjur]

I thought the towers served two purposes, providing mana to Templar within their range, and basically acting like a control collar on any Keidran in their range when they're completed?

[Bellhead]

I thought the towers served two purposes, providing mana to Templar within their range, and basically acting like a control collar on any Keidran in their range when they're completed?

If you're referring to Sythe's comment, I think he was moreso talking about suppressing their animalistic instincts and making them more docile, rather than actually controlling anything. Then again, that was the only reference we have to it, so there's a chance it has been retconned.. or that it was a very short-range effect, and takes a long time to make an impact. But we know about those. What we don't know, is what Trace himself , or the Templar for that matter, needed them for.

[Eclipse]

I don't know about y'all but I've got a feeling that we'er gonna be losing a few character's by the time this chapters over. It's just a matter of who.

On another note. Anyone else getting a series finale vibe from this Chapter?

Nah. It feels more like we're at the halfway point at best. There's still multiple loose ends in the story right now, even if the necromancy ritual is stopped and Brahn/Clovis' army is stopped by the end of the chapter. The Templar are still running amok throughout Mekkan, Brahn or no Brahn, we're not done with that. Flora's baby isn't born yet. What's going on with the Riftwall Tavern? What's Carver going to do with the Western Basitins?

I agree with steelabjur that this chapter is going to change Trace's goals and he's going to want to stay and clean up his mess with the Templar. The end of the comic just won't feel satisfying unless he stops the madness his old self created. And I also agree that the teams are going to shuffle around a bit based on people's goals. So this might end up being a plot twist in the series rather than an ending.

To elaborate on this, first off, I suspect by the end of the conflict with Brahn and Clovis' army, Clovis will end up an ally somehow. Sounds a bit crazy, but Tom seems to love filling out the cast with unique characters with interesting quirks and seems to avoid killing characters off, so Clovis may actually end up joining them. As for how, maybe they find out Clovis was turned female and Natani relates with him, or Brahn betrays Clovis, or they're forced to team up due to a greater threat. Whatever the case, I have a gut feeling Clovis will end up an ally.

Now then, after that, steelabjur is probably right about them wanting to recruit allies for an army. If they're going to put a stop to everything Old Trace did, they're going to need an army to take on the Templar. But I think they're going to want to recuit allies from various races to form an army, not just the Tigers, so they temporarily split up into smaller groups (maybe for about a chapter) to recruit allies from other lands. Flora and Sythe go to the Tiger lands (Trace tags along but doesn't follow them to talk with the Tiger leaders, as his presence is probably not welcome). Keith, Lynn, Maddie, Natani, and Zen go back to the Basitin Isles to report to King Adelaide and request she send troops, possibly with Carver and the Western Basitins joining as well. Eric, Kat, Mike, and Evals go to Dog lands. Clovis and Brutus go to recruit the Foxes maybe? Not sure about Raine, Red, Maren, and Karen, maybe Euchre takes them to meet with the Snow Wolves? And maybe somewhere in here Maeve joins them because of Adira's arrest and they find out about the portal in Riftwall Tavern and try to recruit the Snow Leopards. Anyway, they'll temporarily go their separate ways to recruit the various races, I suspect they'll initially fail because deep-seeded racism. Then they'll regroup and then shuffle around based on who's able to stay and fight and who isn't, with Team A staying to fight the Templar and Team B evacuating to Lyn'knoll (with a few fighters for protection who will warp back to Team A via gate key). I suspect the teams will break down as follows:

Team A: Trace, Flora, Keith, Natani, Maddie, Lynn, Stoney, Reni, Maeve, Landen, Sealeen, Clovis, Brutus
Team B: Raine, Red, Sythe, Maren, Karen, Mrs. Nibbly, Zen, Eric, Kathrin, Mike, Evals

[aitaituo]

Team A: Trace, Flora, Keith, Natani, Maddie, Lynn, Stoney, Reni, Maeve, Landen, Sealeen, Clovis, Brutus
Team B: Raine, Red, Sythe, Maren, Karen, Mrs. Nibbly, Zen, Eric, Kathrin, Mike, Evals

Heh, I don't think Maeve is going anywhere without Adira.

[Rafe]

All I can think is, poor Rose. ...Also did she have to be naked, evil old Trace? I mean I ain't gonna say it's not hot in a totally messed up way but...

She's elderly, gray, practically dead, hanging from dark magic tendrils, and covered in fur to boot, and that's what catches your eye? I have concerns. That said, she's always been an eye-catcher, so I can kinda understand that point of view, with the limited resolution of that one panel...

Getting back to the imagery of Rose's (near) hanging and this scene of her hanging - somewhere between life and death here:
The nudity of Rose in both cases has nothing to do with eroticism. In both cases, I'm convinced that Rose is naked because clothes of any kind are humanizing. I'm guessing Rose was wearing something when Sirus found her. (It's Winter, and SNOWING, for god's sake), and he stripped her of it because he wanted anyone witnessing the hanging to know this was an animal he was killing, not some human criminal. She gets no trial, no clothes, no blindfold, and no last words. She just gets shoved onto the gallows terrified, trembling and crying, to be hauled up and strangled to death.

Sirus is a sadist, or at least wanted to play it that way. He wanted Rose to be humiliated. With Trace, it was probably more of a process of ignoring any humanity in Rose, even if it was just some vicarious feelings he picked up through Saria. Rose said he was obsessed with death. He must have been obsessed to the point where nothing but his obsession mattered to him. He probably didn't intentionally disrespect Rose. He probably didn't feel much of anything by that point. Rose by that time was just a thing; part of the process of achieving his goals. What happened to her might look a little kinder or more repectful in some way, but no one with any respect could strip someone of of their humanity and use them like that if they had any respct for them.

So in both situations, abandoned by Euchre to Sirus, to die with snow swirling around her, or (unwillingly) abandoned by Saria to Trace, to die very slowly with rose petals falling around her; Rose is treated like a thing, a non-person.
Of all the things to happen to someone, I can't imagine anything worse than dying alone and uncared for.

[steelabjur]

I don't know about y'all but I've got a feeling that we'er gonna be losing a few character's by the time this chapters over. It's just a matter of who.

On another note. Anyone else getting a series finale vibe from this Chapter?

Nah. It feels more like we're at the halfway point at best. There's still multiple loose ends in the story right now, even if the necromancy ritual is stopped and Brahn/Clovis' army is stopped by the end of the chapter. The Templar are still running amok throughout Mekkan, Brahn or no Brahn, we're not done with that. Flora's baby isn't born yet. What's going on with the Riftwall Tavern? What's Carver going to do with the Western Basitins?

I agree with steelabjur that this chapter is going to change Trace's goals and he's going to want to stay and clean up his mess with the Templar. The end of the comic just won't feel satisfying unless he stops the madness his old self created. And I also agree that the teams are going to shuffle around a bit based on people's goals. So this might end up being a plot twist in the series rather than an ending.

To elaborate on this, first off, I suspect by the end of the conflict with Brahn and Clovis' army, Clovis will end up an ally somehow. Sounds a bit crazy, but Tom seems to love filling out the cast with unique characters with interesting quirks and seems to avoid killing characters off, so Clovis may actually end up joining them. As for how, maybe they find out Clovis was turned female and Natani relates with him, or Brahn betrays Clovis, or they're forced to team up due to a greater threat. Whatever the case, I have a gut feeling Clovis will end up an ally.

Now then, after that, steelabjur is probably right about them wanting to recruit allies for an army. If they're going to put a stop to everything Old Trace did, they're going to need an army to take on the Templar. But I think they're going to want to recuit allies from various races to form an army, not just the Tigers, so they temporarily split up into smaller groups (maybe for about a chapter) to recruit allies from other lands. Flora and Sythe go to the Tiger lands (Trace tags along but doesn't follow them to talk with the Tiger leaders, as his presence is probably not welcome). Keith, Lynn, Maddie, Natani, and Zen go back to the Basitin Isles to report to King Adelaide and request she send troops, possibly with Carver and the Western Basitins joining as well. Eric, Kat, Mike, and Evals go to Dog lands. Clovis and Brutus go to recruit the Foxes maybe? Not sure about Raine, Red, Maren, and Karen, maybe Euchre takes them to meet with the Snow Wolves? And maybe somewhere in here Maeve joins them because of Adira's arrest and they find out about the portal in Riftwall Tavern and try to recruit the Snow Leopards. Anyway, they'll temporarily go their separate ways to recruit the various races, I suspect they'll initially fail because deep-seeded racism. Then they'll regroup and then shuffle around based on who's able to stay and fight and who isn't, with Team A staying to fight the Templar and Team B evacuating to Lyn'knoll (with a few fighters for protection who will warp back to Team A via gate key). I suspect the teams will break down as follows:

Team A: Trace, Flora, Keith, Natani, Maddie, Lynn, Stoney, Reni, Maeve, Landen, Sealeen, Clovis, Brutus
Team B: Raine, Red, Sythe, Maren, Karen, Mrs. Nibbly, Zen, Eric, Kathrin, Mike, Evals

I don't know how it'll shake out in the end, but I do know that the reason Neutral setup Trace and Flora meeting was because she saw a great war coming. Euchre stated that the Masks know everything, past, present, and future, but it seems they have trouble with small stuff like how people react.


Also, those wondering about Euchre's great age? Pretty sure he might have/had a Mask riding him, and being a host for a Mask could certainly affect his lifespan (like it certainly did his magical power). It seems both Euchre and Master Spy are involved with that Mask, acting through them, and it's likely not either Mask we've seen in the comic on their own.

[Eclipse]

Team A: Trace, Flora, Keith, Natani, Maddie, Lynn, Stoney, Reni, Maeve, Landen, Sealeen, Clovis, Brutus
Team B: Raine, Red, Sythe, Maren, Karen, Mrs. Nibbly, Zen, Eric, Kathrin, Mike, Evals

Heh, I don't think Maeve is going anywhere without Adira.

I mentioned this is another thread, but I suspect Maeve will gain some character development. Remember Adira's been arrested. I don't think she has anyone else to turn to, hence she seeks help from Trace and Flora. Trace and Flora, in turn, take her in and act like surrogate parents for her and she takes on a big sister role to Flora's baby after it's born. Because of this, I think Maeve becomes more mature and independent and wants to help protect those who can't protect themselves, fighting the Templar to prevent them from hurting people such as her mother or the baby. Maybe she learns a few things from Maddie on how to fight (Maddie x Maeve shipping intensifies), learns how to use mana crystals from Natani, and starts helping Team A in actual combat. As for Adira, either she dies after being arrested or after she's freed, she needs to return to the Tavern but allows Maeve to stay with Team A when she's seen how much she's grown.

[Dreamfox]

After all, the main purpose of that spell is simply to convince someone to lower their guard. If he just wanted something that looked like her, without actually being her (which I would find deplorable but far better than this), he would have built something -or someone, probably with Nora's help- that would immitate her. And he would not have needed dark magic to do that. The more I think about it, it just doesn't make sense, with how far he went.

A replacement he could have a family including children with?
We don't know the rules of magic or the limitations the Masks put on them, but I can see variations of Heart's Desire to make Rose function and using Maren to have Saria back. Deplorable, sure.

As for how far he went?
We don't exactly know why he did some things. While his takeover of the Templars allowed him to influence policy towards Keidran Slaves, but for that alone it seems a little much. He might have been able to do the same as a powerful Templar. Still, if we take everything he did to the Keidran, including being behinds laws that forbids people freeing Keidran slaves or even selling them to someone who would free them?
I think he has gone far above anything sensible when it comes to how far he went with his vengeance and refusing to accept his loss. Even with a complete memory wipe by one of the most powerful beings his personality and maybe even the memories are still around

But we will see a few things in the common weeks

P.S. I'm completely fine being proven wrong, so however the story turns out, I'll be fine with it.

[Sky Shatter]

Neat.

I'd been checking for this comic update once or twice daily for weeks, so if course it was posted literally mere hours after I departed on evening of the 12th to go out of town for a few days.

[steelabjur]

After all, the main purpose of that spell is simply to convince someone to lower their guard. If he just wanted something that looked like her, without actually being her (which I would find deplorable but far better than this), he would have built something -or someone, probably with Nora's help- that would imitate her. And he would not have needed dark magic to do that. The more I think about it, it just doesn't make sense, with how far he went.

We know he had access to illusion magic and magic to wipe not just memories but prevent victims from even thinking about doing certain things (see: Reni's attempt to learn what Maddie saw in Rose's room), it's not beyond reason to imagine he has the ability to put thoughts/memories in a mind just as easily. Find someone who looks alot like her, wipe her memories, implant Saria "memories" and condition the victim's mind to act as Saria would act, then some minor illusions to complete the job. The magic to twist someone's mind like that is "dark magic" according to Reni.

[Eclipse]

I don't know about y'all but I've got a feeling that we'er gonna be losing a few character's by the time this chapters over. It's just a matter of who.

On another note. Anyone else getting a series finale vibe from this Chapter?

Nah. It feels more like we're at the halfway point at best. There's still multiple loose ends in the story right now, even if the necromancy ritual is stopped and Brahn/Clovis' army is stopped by the end of the chapter. The Templar are still running amok throughout Mekkan, Brahn or no Brahn, we're not done with that. Flora's baby isn't born yet. What's going on with the Riftwall Tavern? What's Carver going to do with the Western Basitins?

I agree with steelabjur that this chapter is going to change Trace's goals and he's going to want to stay and clean up his mess with the Templar. The end of the comic just won't feel satisfying unless he stops the madness his old self created. And I also agree that the teams are going to shuffle around a bit based on people's goals. So this might end up being a plot twist in the series rather than an ending.

To elaborate on this, first off, I suspect by the end of the conflict with Brahn and Clovis' army, Clovis will end up an ally somehow. Sounds a bit crazy, but Tom seems to love filling out the cast with unique characters with interesting quirks and seems to avoid killing characters off, so Clovis may actually end up joining them. As for how, maybe they find out Clovis was turned female and Natani relates with him, or Brahn betrays Clovis, or they're forced to team up due to a greater threat. Whatever the case, I have a gut feeling Clovis will end up an ally.

Now then, after that, steelabjur is probably right about them wanting to recruit allies for an army. If they're going to put a stop to everything Old Trace did, they're going to need an army to take on the Templar. But I think they're going to want to recuit allies from various races to form an army, not just the Tigers, so they temporarily split up into smaller groups (maybe for about a chapter) to recruit allies from other lands. Flora and Sythe go to the Tiger lands (Trace tags along but doesn't follow them to talk with the Tiger leaders, as his presence is probably not welcome). Keith, Lynn, Maddie, Natani, and Zen go back to the Basitin Isles to report to King Adelaide and request she send troops, possibly with Carver and the Western Basitins joining as well. Eric, Kat, Mike, and Evals go to Dog lands. Clovis and Brutus go to recruit the Foxes maybe? Not sure about Raine, Red, Maren, and Karen, maybe Euchre takes them to meet with the Snow Wolves? And maybe somewhere in here Maeve joins them because of Adira's arrest and they find out about the portal in Riftwall Tavern and try to recruit the Snow Leopards. Anyway, they'll temporarily go their separate ways to recruit the various races, I suspect they'll initially fail because deep-seeded racism. Then they'll regroup and then shuffle around based on who's able to stay and fight and who isn't, with Team A staying to fight the Templar and Team B evacuating to Lyn'knoll (with a few fighters for protection who will warp back to Team A via gate key). I suspect the teams will break down as follows:

Team A: Trace, Flora, Keith, Natani, Maddie, Lynn, Stoney, Reni, Maeve, Landen, Sealeen, Clovis, Brutus
Team B: Raine, Red, Sythe, Maren, Karen, Mrs. Nibbly, Zen, Eric, Kathrin, Mike, Evals

I don't know how it'll shake out in the end, but I do know that the reason Neutral setup Trace and Flora meeting was because she saw a great war coming. Euchre stated that the Masks know everything, past, present, and future, but it seems they have trouble with small stuff like how people react.


Also, those wondering about Euchre's great age? Pretty sure he might have/had a Mask riding him, and being a host for a Mask could certainly affect his lifespan (like it certainly did his magical power). It seems both Euchre and Master Spy are involved with that Mask, acting through them, and it's likely not either Mask we've seen in the comic on their own.

Forgot to respond to this.

Well, if there were going to be a great war, it'd most likely be the Templar vs. everyone else. If Old!Trace had continued, he'd probably proceed to wipe out the other races. Neutral obviously can't let that happen, hence she took Trace's memories. Neutral also mentioned Trace and Flora were supposed to be on different sides and she was trying to convince Flora that Trace betrayed her to trigger that (which of course didn't go according to plan because they fell in love with each other), so Templar vs. Keidran is obviously a major part of that conflict.

[Bellhead]

The magic to twist someone's mind like that is "dark magic" according to Reni.

I'm not quite so sure about that, but it's definitely possible. We don't have definitive evidence that only dark magic is capable of that, but we do know for (pretty much) absolute certainty that whatever happened to Maddie's mind WAS dark magic. As Reni said, "That's dark magic. Troubling." Not necessarilly that it could only be, just that it was. Splitting hairs, I know, but still.

It's possible that memory manipulation can be done with normal magic skills, for traumatic events etc, but that the warping of personality and such would require dark magic.

Or I could be completely wrong, and anything to do with mental manipulation requires the power of life itself to do. I mean, that's basically all dark mana is, right? Life force?

[Technic[Bot]]

I don't know about y'all but I've
got a feeling that we'er gonna be losing a few character's by the time this chapters over. It's just a matter of who.

On another note. Anyone else getting a series finale vibe from this Chapter?

Not really, but I could see the Team A/Team B dynamic getting changed by the end, and maybe a change in the story as far as goals. Maybe the fallout of this
leads Trace to decide that running off to Lyn'knoll when so many are still affected by the Evil his former self caused and is still happening in his name isn't
the right choice, and he stays to fight for change, joined by Sythe, Keith, and Eric (one acting in his role as Basitin Ambassador, the other being a Wolf
Noble, and the last being a successful merchant able to help get supplies for an army). Meanwhile Red, Zen, Maddie, Raine, Kat, Karen, Mike, and Evals get sent
into Tiger territory to find allies and find protection from the fighting by their friends.

Or really, any split up. I just think we'll be seeing the secondary characters from the Teams get shuffled around (I doubt we'll see the main characters Trace,
Flora, Keith, and Natani split up, or the other couples: Red and Raine, and Sythe and Maren) and maybe new goals for the teams going forward. If we were talking
literary though, I'd say we're in the final chapter of the first book of a series. Sort of like The Fellowship of The Ring.

I imagine the group dynamic will comppletely change. On the good side Trace might, finally, realize he cannot simply run away from all the problem he caused
and decides to actually try to fix some of it. Alas i am not sure who will follow him. Even if everyone survives, lets ignore Rose for a moment, I am not sure
any of them would still willingly stay in Trace's company: Maren, she will realize she was not Trace comfort woman but she was little more than laboratory
material, Red was Trace's childhood friend but will he remain his friends after he realizes he wanted his cousin (allegedly) to resurrect his death wife. Raine
is not gonna be very happy he is using one of her last family as undead minions. Keith is his current best friend yet Trace migth kill Nat, his lover, as
collateral damage. Even Flora she will see face to face and up close and personal what kind of man is/was the father of her child. Perhaps even Trace will
break and even if he fails a bringing back his wife he will go back to finish his towers and wipe out all Keidran.

Now regarding the whole Traces plan.

I used to think once Trace dived into necromancy to resurrect Saria he realized it was not possible, no matter how much dark energy he used. As he is unable to
bring her back he decided the next best think wass revenge, wiping out the whole Keidran race seemed like a good revenge for him.

Now given current evidence it is clear he is still trying to resurrect Saria but i think he does has 2 separate plans: On one hand he wants to bring Saria back,
on the other he is still gonna kill all Keidran. Which seems like uncompatible, if he somehow succeeds in his necromancy, I doubt Saria will really like that other one.

[celtcath74]

Wow, some many questions?
1) Euchre warned "Rose" about Trace finding the secret room. Does this mean he knew what Evil Trace did and was fine with his daughter walking into this?
2) Is Stony hiding behind Trace with Flora in panel 5?
3) Where are Sealeen and Landen?
4) Was Evil trace looking to turn his ex into his dead wife?
5) What role does Mrs. Nibbly play in all this?