Comic for August 9, 2018: Assassin Siblings, Catching Up, Pt 3

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Insomniac
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Re: Comic for August 9, 2018: Assassin Siblings, Catching Up, Pt 3

#16 Post by Insomniac »

Always nice to see YoungTani again.
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Re: Comic for August 9, 2018: Assassin Siblings, Catching Up, Pt 3

#17 Post by Warrl »

aitaituo wrote: Thu Aug 09, 2018 7:44 pm
SirJahar wrote: Thu Aug 09, 2018 4:21 pm Welp, there ends 90% of the plot. Show's over, bye everyone.
Except the resolution is that Natani has embraced on a permanent basis a literal fracturing of her personality. She's gone from having mixed/confused/ashamed feelings about her to gender to feeling okay by bifurcating her already split and patched mind. And this time she appears to have no intention of mending the wound.

As a human being and therefore as a person who has embraced a flaw and callously declared that it's a feature not a bug no problems here ha ha don't about it, I do not expect this to end well for Natani at all.

Zen seems to be saying that Youngtani is speaking independently of Natani in the link. Is she doing the same to Natani? Does Natani not have control over Youngtani? I had read the part where Youngtani was introduced as a kind of dream sequence/inner monologue that shows up in fiction a lot, not the introduction of a new character. This is rather alarming. Like, black smoke thing alarming, only with less kill 'em all kill 'em all intrusive thoughts.
My guess is that Natani's soul was not quite as shattered as they thought - that a significant fragment, probably including at least part of the previous gender identity, actually remained, but attached by such a thin thread that it wasn't noticed at the time. And then was masked by the soul-splice, until that was temporarily blocked. That fragment is the basis of YoungTani, and Natani's soul had already begun re-connecting the fragment by the time the splice was unblocked. Thus, for a while, the fragment will seem to be getting progressively stronger, and after that it will seem to be re-integrating with modern Natani. How far either of those will progress is TBD.

But remember, YoungTani likes being seen as a guy. And Natani sees himself as a guy. No conflict there. The biggest apparent differences between the two are acceptance of their own body, and age.

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Re: Comic for August 9, 2018: Assassin Siblings, Catching Up, Pt 3

#18 Post by aitaituo »

Warrl wrote: Thu Aug 09, 2018 9:12 pm
aitaituo wrote: Thu Aug 09, 2018 7:44 pm
SirJahar wrote: Thu Aug 09, 2018 4:21 pm Welp, there ends 90% of the plot. Show's over, bye everyone.
Except the resolution is that Natani has embraced on a permanent basis a literal fracturing of her personality. She's gone from having mixed/confused/ashamed feelings about her to gender to feeling okay by bifurcating her already split and patched mind. And this time she appears to have no intention of mending the wound.

As a human being and therefore as a person who has embraced a flaw and callously declared that it's a feature not a bug no problems here ha ha don't about it, I do not expect this to end well for Natani at all.

Zen seems to be saying that Youngtani is speaking independently of Natani in the link. Is she doing the same to Natani? Does Natani not have control over Youngtani? I had read the part where Youngtani was introduced as a kind of dream sequence/inner monologue that shows up in fiction a lot, not the introduction of a new character. This is rather alarming. Like, black smoke thing alarming, only with less kill 'em all kill 'em all intrusive thoughts.
My guess is that Natani's soul was not quite as shattered as they thought - that a significant fragment, probably including at least part of the previous gender identity, actually remained, but attached by such a thin thread that it wasn't noticed at the time. And then was masked by the soul-splice, until that was temporarily blocked. That fragment is the basis of YoungTani, and Natani's soul had already begun re-connecting the fragment by the time the splice was unblocked. Thus, for a while, the fragment will seem to be getting progressively stronger, and after that it will seem to be re-integrating with modern Natani. How far either of those will progress is TBD.

But remember, YoungTani likes being seen as a guy. And Natani sees himself as a guy. No conflict there. The biggest apparent differences between the two are acceptance of their own body, and age.

There seems to be a significant difference in personality as well, which is far more concerning than the two personalities' stances on Natani's presentation of/hypostatic gender.

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Re: Comic for August 9, 2018: Assassin Siblings, Catching Up, Pt 3

#19 Post by Ddraig »

Sky Shatter wrote: Thu Aug 09, 2018 8:05 pm It's uncomfortable to see several layers of reinforcement that Zen views Nat's femininity as an undesirable to be purged or hidden even in private, like it's a fact rather than a recourse. Discomforting, but sets up very intriguing character conflict and potential growth, making the story all the more interesting. That's what's kept me hooked on Twokinds for a decade and a half: the unrelenting character development that feels natural and fluid.
If that's referring to Zen's last comment, I'm about 95% sure it's about any sudden personality reversal, not specifically because he doesn't want Nat to be feminine.
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Re: Comic for August 9, 2018: Assassin Siblings, Catching Up, Pt 3

#20 Post by ZeroJinKui »

alright, so zen is still being a complete douche to his sister... wonderful.

if natani TRULY identifies as a male... does that mean she and keith will be doing butt stuff, then?

i mean, can't really use the other entrance if you prefer to be viewed/treated as a male.

...look, i'm very curious about how that relationship will progress. >_>
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Re: Comic for August 9, 2018: Assassin Siblings, Catching Up, Pt 3

#21 Post by Neptune »

>tits

HOW DARE YOU!!
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Re: Comic for August 9, 2018: Assassin Siblings, Catching Up, Pt 3

#22 Post by Rafe »

Nothing about Natani's sexuality has ever been anything but feminine: Coming into heat and begging Keith with a slinky "...I'll do anything you want...", Inviting him to feel her breasts... No, the only thing she's done to avoid that kind of female sexuality is to try to ignore it as much as possible. That is she used to, anyway. Lately, she seems much more comfortable with it. It's obvious she was suppressing what she really feels and desires. You might imagine her aggressiveness as being more of a male thing (as when she passionately kissed Keith for the first time), but there's nothing that says female sexuality can't be aggressive.

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Re: Comic for August 9, 2018: Assassin Siblings, Catching Up, Pt 3

#23 Post by Warrl »

Warrl wrote: Thu Aug 09, 2018 5:47 pm"Natani, I didn't cut my hair and dress like a boy just to join the Guild. Secretly, I liked it. I mean, I didn't mind being a girl, but... I liked being seen as a boy."
Although it occurs to me that YounTani, being - in her own words - "a tiny fractured bit of our subconscious", may not really have full and accurate knowledge of what Natani was before the soul-shattering.

Still, her word is the best we have.

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Re: Comic for August 9, 2018: Assassin Siblings, Catching Up, Pt 3

#24 Post by CrRAR »

aitaituo wrote: Thu Aug 09, 2018 7:44 pmAs a human being and therefore as a person who has embraced a flaw and callously declared that it's a feature not a bug, "no problems here! ha ha, don't about it", I do not expect this to end well for Natani at all.
The way you phrased that reminded me of something...

Image
Warrl wrote: Thu Aug 09, 2018 9:12 pm
aitaituo wrote: Thu Aug 09, 2018 7:44 pm
SirJahar wrote: Thu Aug 09, 2018 4:21 pm Welp, there ends 90% of the plot. Show's over, bye everyone.
Except the resolution is that Natani has embraced on a permanent basis a literal fracturing of her personality. She's gone from having mixed/confused/ashamed feelings about her to gender to feeling okay by bifurcating her already split and patched mind. And this time she appears to have no intention of mending the wound.

As a human being and therefore as a person who has embraced a flaw and callously declared that it's a feature not a bug, "no problems here! ha ha, don't about it", I do not expect this to end well for Natani at all.

Zen seems to be saying that Youngtani is speaking independently of Natani in the link. Is she doing the same to Natani? Does Natani not have control over Youngtani? I had read the part where Youngtani was introduced as a kind of dream sequence/inner monologue that shows up in fiction a lot, not the introduction of a new character. This is rather alarming. Like, black smoke thing alarming, only with less kill 'em all kill 'em all intrusive thoughts.
My guess is that Natani's soul was not quite as shattered as they thought - that a significant fragment, probably including at least part of the previous gender identity, actually remained, but attached by such a thin thread that it wasn't noticed at the time. And then was masked by the soul-splice, until that was temporarily blocked. That fragment is the basis of YoungTani, and Natani's soul had already begun re-connecting the fragment by the time the splice was unblocked. Thus, for a while, the fragment will seem to be getting progressively stronger, and after that it will seem to be re-integrating with modern Natani. How far either of those will progress is TBD.

But remember, YoungTani likes being seen as a guy. And Natani sees himself as a guy. No conflict there. The biggest apparent differences between the two are acceptance of their own body, and age.

Yeah, to aitaituo's concerns, the issue(s) Natani had existed before, Youngtani simply has put a face to it. Well a face to the real problem, Natani's mind before Youngtani was just a fun house of fog and mirrors. Natani not wanting to acknowledge his physical body was a major stopping point psychologically, it was preventing Natani from being happy with Keith despite feelings for him. Where do those feelings originate exactly? Natani? Youngtani? Both? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Before it was a fog of "I'M A MALE!", a canned explanation being that was the explanation Zen's fill-ins provided. It wasn't a self-assured identity. It was a decoy. Sure now it seems like more for Natani to sort through, but he's understanding himself and growing along the way. You can't live the way Natani was before, it was how Youngtani described it, like living on a crutch.

Think if someone stole part of your mind and whenever someone asked you a question you didn't know, Zen handed you a flashcard to read as a response. How can an individual be authentic or real living in such a way? Even if the answer on the flashcard happens TO BE TRUE TO WHO YOU ARE, your blank mind offers no confidence that the real you would have said that. You... aren't you.

We don't know a whole lot of Natani from earlier in life other than what the 'tanis have told us, post-link we know he did drunkenly chat up one Blonde wolf ages ago. Natani probably did not have much opportunity for romantic pursuits or exploring that part of himself. It's a portion of his life that just remained underdeveloped because of the circumstances. Keith is allowing maturity in that department, and it's mutual. They're both growing as people, better off for having each other...

...and that's what a relationship is meant to be. :heart:
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Re: Comic for August 9, 2018: Assassin Siblings, Catching Up, Pt 3

#25 Post by steelabjur »

Natani situation sort of reminds me of Phineas Gage, a 1800's railroad worker who survived an accident in which a 3 foot long, 1 1⁄4 inches (3.2 cm) in diameter iron rod was driven completely through his head with blasting powder, destroying much of his brain's left frontal lobe. He suffered metal changes due to the injury (and later epileptic seizures that eventually led to his death) but it's still a famous case of the resiliency of the brain to injury.

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Re: Comic for August 9, 2018: Assassin Siblings, Catching Up, Pt 3

#26 Post by CrRAR »

steelabjur wrote: Fri Aug 10, 2018 7:37 am Natani situation sort of reminds me of Phineas Gage, a 1800's railroad worker who survived an accident in which a 3 foot long, 1 1⁄4 inches (3.2 cm) in diameter iron rod was driven completely through his head with blasting powder, destroying much of his brain's left frontal lobe. He suffered metal changes due to the injury (and later epileptic seizures that eventually led to his death) but it's still a famous case of the resiliency of the brain to injury.
He was also extremely prone to temper tantrums following the ordeal.

*insert picarto shakenatani.gif*

...oh yeah, the frontal lobe controls reasoning, temperament, and judgement. Damage there can make folks moody and prone to snap decisions. Though who wouldn't be A LITTLE ornery after a stake was sent through their head? amiright? xD :P
Insomniac wrote: Thu Aug 09, 2018 8:29 pm Always nice to see YoungTani again.
Indeed. :)
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Re: Comic for August 9, 2018: Assassin Siblings, Catching Up, Pt 3

#27 Post by amenon »

I thought it was a bit of a nothing page, but I suppose that's evidently not the case if it's generating discussion. But then, there's nothing new about the discussion, so maybe that's still true :P

I guess I'll have to take Youngtani's word that she's just a fragment, even if I have no idea how that could be, given that she appears quite distinct and complete in her own right. Why does a fragment appear whole? Is Natani a fractal? (But then, he/she isn't self-similar...) Anyway, taken on faith, for now. (Also, that line about 'not getting in the way' feels... odd.)

Now that we seem to have re-established just about everything it's possible to re-establish, I hope there's still going to be some real meat to this scene.
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Re: Comic for August 9, 2018: Assassin Siblings, Catching Up, Pt 3

#28 Post by Ddraig »

amenon wrote: Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:01 pm I thought it was a bit of a nothing page, but I suppose that's evidently not the case if it's generating discussion. But then, there's nothing new about the discussion, so maybe that's still true :P

I guess I'll have to take Youngtani's word that she's just a fragment, even if I have no idea how that could be, given that she appears quite distinct and complete in her own right. Why does a fragment appear whole? Is Natani a fractal? (But then, he/she isn't self-similar...) Anyway, taken on faith, for now. (Also, that line about 'not getting in the way' feels... odd.)

Now that we seem to have re-established just about everything it's possible to re-establish, I hope there's still going to be some real meat to this scene.
I guess there's the question of whether Young!Nat meant 'including Zen' when she said "our subconscious"
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Re: Comic for August 9, 2018: Assassin Siblings, Catching Up, Pt 3

#29 Post by amenon »

Ddraig wrote: Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:57 pm I guess there's the question of whether Young!Nat meant 'including Zen' when she said "our subconscious"
I read it as meaning the two Natani. Likewise, when she says "If it weren't for me, we'd both be charred wolves by now", I don't think that includes Zen. Unless she means that Zen is charred, and Natani would be if not for her. But what with the 'by now', I think she's just talking about the boat escape. To paraphrase, "You wouldn't still have your brother if not for me."

(How is she a fragment aaaaaaaaaaa)
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Re: Comic for August 9, 2018: Assassin Siblings, Catching Up, Pt 3

#30 Post by Warrl »

survived an accident in which a 3 foot long, 1 1⁄4 inches (3.2 cm) in diameter iron rod was driven completely through his head with blasting powder, destroying much of his brain's left frontal lobe. He suffered metal changes
Obviously...

(Quite the appropriate typo, isn't it?)

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