Really fun page
GaySailors wrote: ↑Sun Apr 22, 2018 7:01 pm
It's also worth noting that Natani is still a man in her dreams, even after some of the pep talk she had about being herself. Maybe shes not as comfortable as being seen as female as we thought before.
This isn't news, since Natani already reverted to male in the mindscape all the way back in
933, third to last panel. (
Speechless for a better view, why not.)
Based on what youngtani said at the time, he was manifesting as female because he was feeling weak, and equated that
in himself (still unclear how sexist Natani is in general; opinions vary; mine is that it was mostly
self-directed) with weakness. So when he reverted back to male, it was either because 1) he stopped feeling weak or 2) he stopped equating femininity with weakness. I think it's pretty clear based on what's followed since that it was the latter.
steelabjur wrote: ↑Mon Apr 23, 2018 2:42 am
Zen's response in the fourth panel:
Zen wrote:Wah! Who... Natani? Why did you make yourself look younger... and a girl?
(emphases mine) makes it clear that Nat controls how he appears in these mental contacts.
I'm not entirely sure what to make of this, in light of the fact that Natani was indeed previously plot-importantly unable to control his appearance. Could be that that's just the only thing that occurred to Zen, even if it's not actually possible; could be that they have partial control; could be that they normally have full control. Something to note is that Natani's hair appears intact here. But would that be conscious or subconscious? Who knows.
And avwolf would want me to mention that
Zen has been known to appear in clothes he may or may not actually own.
Wobaku wrote: ↑Mon Apr 23, 2018 12:17 pm
Yes she enjoyed looking like a boy, probably something that was pretty much forbidden for female wolves, and liked acting masculine, but those are very different things than
wanting to be a boy. They are also things that tomboys like doing, and tom has called her a tomboy in the past.
There's two points I like to bring up when it comes to youngtani:
1) As long as youngtani and Natani are two different people, I don't think who youngtani is/was necessarily has much bearing on who Natani is. Stuff changed when the branch happened, that much is clear by all accounts.
2) While I agree with the read that youngtani is much more likely to be a tomboy than trans, I don't think it's a certainty. And if it comes to pass that youngtani's gender identity == Natani's gender identity, then I'm personally still gonna place my bets on that turning out to be closer to trans.
The thing about youngtani is that she 'died' before she ever entered puberty in full. She wouldn't have been able to pass as a male topless or anything, but her body is still very androgynous compared to what it would eventually become, and she's never been in heat -- so she never had to deal with either of Natani's two biggest complaints with the body.
Would that have mattered? Beats me, but I don't think it's an open-and-shut case.
Wobaku wrote: ↑Mon Apr 23, 2018 12:17 pm
Youngnatani explicitly stated she did not mind being a girl, this means she only started thinking of herself as a man and despising her body after the soulshatter. She is/was ''transgender'' because of dark magic, not a choice she made, and no one in the real world is transgender because of dark magic, so I don't think the word fits. But like you said, it's been purposefully left ambiguous.
To get into the semantics, I don't think there's anything about the word 'transgender' that doesn't apply, if Natani is in fact a trans-analogue. It's only the cause that would be weird, not the end result.
Or to put it another way; Keidran are neither real nor human, but that doesn't mean that the comic can't have anything to say about racism.
Wobaku wrote: ↑Mon Apr 23, 2018 12:17 pm
acting feminine around Keith, and even offering Keith a handful, things she would never have done at the beginning of the story.
The way I see it is that Natani is now basically behaving like you might expect a guy transformed into a girl to behave.
This page comes to mind, both for the explanation in panel 4, and the memorable demonstration of the behavior
Plus, that shoe kinda fits. It's just that the transformation was mental, not physical.
Wobaku wrote: ↑Mon Apr 23, 2018 12:17 pm
In my opinion she'll definitely be content with being called ''she'' by the end of the story, but I don't expect everyone to agree with me on that, the term transgender may have once fit her but it won't by the time her story is wrapped up.
The bets have been placed, but the wheel remains in motion