Comic for March 24, 2018

The comic stuff here.

Moderator: Moderators

Message
Author
User avatar
RowanEx
Citizen
Posts: 68
Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2017 1:33 am
Location: Philippines
Fav. Twokinds Character: Keith
Contact:

Re: Comic for March 24, 2018

#16 Post by RowanEx »

First thing that entered in my mind in Brahn's pet were the two Templars that tried to get in.
Image
~~~()~~~
Rowan Ex

furcode: FFfm2adfrw A C- D H++ M- P R+ T+++ W Z- Sm RLU a- clmn++ d- e- f+ h+ iwf++ j++ p- sm-

User avatar
Candycat
Citizen
Posts: 55
Joined: Sat Sep 02, 2017 9:49 am
Location: California

Re: Comic for March 24, 2018

#17 Post by Candycat »

allanpike wrote: Sun Mar 25, 2018 2:19 am ... Have to admit, it is a little odd coming here and seeing a lot of people commenting on how evil Euchre is, and how he is so much like Clovis in how much of an unforgiving slimeball he is... but... what did he exactly do?

He had an innate gift for transformation magic and had a desire to learn more about magic and probably broaden his horizons. Humans have the greatest magical theory and education, however entering a human town is basically a death sentence for Keidran, or becoming a slave if you're lucky. So he takes on the form a human and enrols in the templar's in order to become better at magic.

I mean... yeah. Not telling Mary that he's not actually a human wasn't the best thing to do. Nor was being willing to let Rose hang exactly a strong character moment. But from what I recall? He was anguished as this. As if he stepped forwards, if he revealed he had a connection to a Keidran, or he actually was on... he could have been sentencing both of them to death! If it wasn't for the fact that Mary cared for him too much to not have him killed immediately, he was pretty much powerless to stop Rose from being killed.

If the backstory flashback we got was meant to show that Euchre is a manipulative and self-serving [censored]. Then it failed utterly. All it showed to me was a young lad doing what he can to learn about an art he is extremely passionate about, and then being forced into an impossible situation where one misstep could have also resulted in his own death. The main stand out moment to me in that flashback isn't Euchre being willing to let Rose hang... but where he brutally there's Mary down by reminding her that Rose's only crime was being a Keidran
I mean he's kinda fishy right now but I mostly agree.
ImageImage
ImageImage
Image

User avatar
BadFoMo
Grand Templar
Posts: 2492
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2010 4:05 am

Re: Comic for March 24, 2018

#18 Post by BadFoMo »

steelabjur wrote: Sat Mar 24, 2018 5:33 pmIs this the first time we've seen Euchre in Tom's current style? Also an interesting bit of info given by Rose, the transformation caused by intruding on the Estate is some type of curse and might not be countered by Euchre's Perfect Transformation, and she can sense "Brahn's pet" lurking about spying and even knows who sent it (which is another check in the "connected to the Estate in some fundamental way" column). Looks like the hostility caused by Euchre leaving her to hang, literally, hasn't dulled over the years either.
I'm not exactly sure if I questioned how she knew of what I'm going to guess is the cat, but now that this possibility has been brought up, what has been done about the cat?

Also, now that I think about it, maybe nothing has been done. Maybe something would only happen to the cat if it steps inside the manner.

Candycat wrote: Sun Mar 25, 2018 11:35 am
allanpike wrote: Sun Mar 25, 2018 2:19 am... Have to admit, it is a little odd coming here and seeing a lot of people commenting on how evil Euchre is, and how he is so much like Clovis in how much of an unforgiving slimeball he is... but... what did he exactly do?

He had an innate gift for transformation magic and had a desire to learn more about magic and probably broaden his horizons. Humans have the greatest magical theory and education, however entering a human town is basically a death sentence for Keidran, or becoming a slave if you're lucky. So he takes on the form a human and enrols in the templar's in order to become better at magic.

I mean... yeah. Not telling Mary that he's not actually a human wasn't the best thing to do. Nor was being willing to let Rose hang exactly a strong character moment. But from what I recall? He was anguished as this. As if he stepped forwards, if he revealed he had a connection to a Keidran, or he actually was on... he could have been sentencing both of them to death! If it wasn't for the fact that Mary cared for him too much to not have him killed immediately, he was pretty much powerless to stop Rose from being killed.

If the backstory flashback we got was meant to show that Euchre is a manipulative and self-serving [censored]. Then it failed utterly. All it showed to me was a young lad doing what he can to learn about an art he is extremely passionate about, and then being forced into an impossible situation where one misstep could have also resulted in his own death. The main stand out moment to me in that flashback isn't Euchre being willing to let Rose hang... but where he brutally there's Mary down by reminding her that Rose's only crime was being a Keidran
I mean he's kinda fishy right now but I mostly agree.
Same. He seems nice enough, but I get a ‘do not trust him’ feeling. Maybe it's because I don't know his motives, or what he's planning.
Image
Why yes, in addition to the usual ships, I support Zen X Kathrin and Alaric X Laura.

TwoKinds Printable Game Toys!
Now crowd sourcing ideas!

User avatar
Hulk10
Templar GrandMaster
Posts: 897
Joined: Sat Sep 26, 2015 1:52 am
Location: Twokinds world where Keidran live long lives and do not have crystal limitations on their magic.
Fav. Twokinds Character: Flora, Nora, Kat.
Contact:

Re: Comic for March 24, 2018

#19 Post by Hulk10 »

Yeah he does have this ''you can't trust him' vibe. I don't trust him in the least.
Hulk is strongest one there is -Incredible Hulk

In the name of the Mighty Legions of Predacons who preceded me I shall never again bow to your charge! But, I will heed your previous advice and face my true enemy AS A BEAST! -Predaking.

User avatar
BadJoke
Templar GrandMaster
Posts: 631
Joined: Mon Mar 18, 2013 7:40 pm
Location: France

Re: Comic for March 24, 2018

#20 Post by BadJoke »

Hulk10 wrote: Sat Mar 24, 2018 3:58 pm
NuclearBird wrote: Sat Mar 24, 2018 11:49 am God, I can almost HEAR that smarmy, smug, condescending, self-satisfied voice.
I agree......... Euchre makes me sick........
I'm happy to see I'm not alone in that case.

And for why we do feel that towards him... I can see several explanations:

1) He's arrogant.
No one like condescending haugties. Fictional or not. They're just unbearable.

And that's not even taking in account how he treats people around him. Seriously... you go to see the cousin you left to die and you give her a big superior smuggy smile? No wonder she wants you with a "no mouth and I must scream".

2) All we know about him is his treasons.
Yup. With all we saw of him... all he did ended with his betrayal:
- Rose: left to die to keep the masquerade (sure he was forced to, but it's still a low blow)
- His family: made sure they stayed alive and free but barely more (and his very love-life started with a lie...)
- Templars / Keidrans / Master Spy / our heroes: he floats between lines and play with his pawns while leaving them in the dark, and most of them are probably on the "sacrificial" list.
So at the end, he is entirely defined by his betrayals, and that doesn't help when it comes to looking agreeable.

The only thing we saw him take a real life risk for was Flora (and considering it may be a way to cope with his personal guilt over abandoning his cousin to die, it may not be that glorious) and he keeps her on the dark. Oh, and that old guy in a barn, but we know so little of that man... I can't say anything about him.


Conclusion: nothing he did would make anyone looks good. For some he was forced, for others he "limited" the casualties, but at the end it's clear he looks after power first and moral come second, even if close. Almost every time he had to chose, he chose the first, and even when he didn't, it was in a situation who didn't put his position at risk. So of course some of us don't like him.

If one day he find himself "in front of the gallows" again, with no way to hide, would he react differently than in the old days? We can legitimately doubt.
Criminals are less dangerous than virtuous people: they kill less.

User avatar
tony1695
Weaver of Tales
Posts: 5737
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2010 5:49 am
Location: POOTISPOOTISPOOTISPOOTIS

Re: Comic for March 24, 2018

#21 Post by tony1695 »

I think the only thing that can be concluded with any sort of confidence about Euchre is that the only side he's on is his own. He'll play along with one faction until his goals there are accomplished, then abandon them and work with someone else. He may not have started out wanting to do this, though, at this point it may well be the only way he's survived as long as he has. Maybe he literally cannot think of any other way to operate or.
Gentlementlemen
How do you get to the Rakdos Guild Hall?
You take the psycho path.
Weed la Weed Warning: WEIRD

User avatar
Dadrobit
Grand Templar
Posts: 1216
Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2011 5:46 am
Location: Sunny Arizona

Re: Comic for March 24, 2018

#22 Post by Dadrobit »

steelabjur wrote: Sat Mar 24, 2018 5:33 pm Is this the first time we've seen Euchre in Tom's current style?
It's been five years since we last saw him, and it was just a flashback at that point.

It's been twelve whole years since we saw him outside of a flashback.

And with that last point in mind, I suppose it wouldn't be a terribly hard line of logic to follow that Euchre is potentially actually very close by.
allanpike wrote: Sun Mar 25, 2018 2:19 am ... Have to admit, it is a little odd coming here and seeing a lot of people commenting on how evil Euchre is, and how he is so much like Clovis in how much of an unforgiving slimeball he is... but... what did he exactly do?

He had an innate gift for transformation magic and had a desire to learn more about magic and probably broaden his horizons. Humans have the greatest magical theory and education, however entering a human town is basically a death sentence for Keidran, or becoming a slave if you're lucky. So he takes on the form a human and enrols in the templar's in order to become better at magic.

I mean... yeah. Not telling Mary that he's not actually a human wasn't the best thing to do. Nor was being willing to let Rose hang exactly a strong character moment. But from what I recall? He was anguished as this. As if he stepped forwards, if he revealed he had a connection to a Keidran, or he actually was on... he could have been sentencing both of them to death! If it wasn't for the fact that Mary cared for him too much to not have him killed immediately, he was pretty much powerless to stop Rose from being killed.

If the backstory flashback we got was meant to show that Euchre is a manipulative and self-serving [censored]. Then it failed utterly. All it showed to me was a young lad doing what he can to learn about an art he is extremely passionate about, and then being forced into an impossible situation where one misstep could have also resulted in his own death. The main stand out moment to me in that flashback isn't Euchre being willing to let Rose hang... but where he brutally there's Mary down by reminding her that Rose's only crime was being a Keidran
This topic came up in the stream while the page was being colored and I very much agree. Rose, (who, let's remember pulled a knife on him as a "prank" (such nice familial bonds she's creating)) walked into that situation full well knowing what the consequences could be if she were caught and couldn't find Euchre on time, and it was Sirus who put the both of them in that unwinnable situation.

Truth be told, all we've actually seen of Euchre beyond the flashback, is that of someone supporting the protagonists no? The deception is there, but it's used as a means to a good end. Heck, he even went full on self-sacrifice mode against a demi-god to save Flora. The only word we have against him as a completely self serving individual is that of what Mary told Raine, and at the time it would be a bit of an understatement to say that she wasn't fond of him and would be a bit biased against him.

Speaking of, I'm curious as to the status of Mary and Euchre. The last we saw of them together, she was still, (tentatively?) considering the keidran to be enemies, but was apologetic towards Euchre, indeed calling him, "My dear Euchre." She kind of fell off of the face of the planet after that...
Image

User avatar
Hulk10
Templar GrandMaster
Posts: 897
Joined: Sat Sep 26, 2015 1:52 am
Location: Twokinds world where Keidran live long lives and do not have crystal limitations on their magic.
Fav. Twokinds Character: Flora, Nora, Kat.
Contact:

Re: Comic for March 24, 2018

#23 Post by Hulk10 »

BadJoke wrote: Sun Mar 25, 2018 7:08 pm
Hulk10 wrote: Sat Mar 24, 2018 3:58 pm
NuclearBird wrote: Sat Mar 24, 2018 11:49 am God, I can almost HEAR that smarmy, smug, condescending, self-satisfied voice.
I agree......... Euchre makes me sick........
I'm happy to see I'm not alone in that case.

And for why we do feel that towards him... I can see several explanations:

1) He's arrogant.
No one like condescending haugties. Fictional or not. They're just unbearable.

And that's not even taking in account how he treats people around him. Seriously... you go to see the cousin you left to die and you give her a big superior smuggy smile? No wonder she wants you with a "no mouth and I must scream".

2) All we know about him is his treasons.
Yup. With all we saw of him... all he did ended with his betrayal:
- Rose: left to die to keep the masquerade (sure he was forced to, but it's still a low blow)
- His family: made sure they stayed alive and free but barely more (and his very love-life started with a lie...)
- Templars / Keidrans / Master Spy / our heroes: he floats between lines and play with his pawns while leaving them in the dark, and most of them are probably on the "sacrificial" list.
So at the end, he is entirely defined by his betrayals, and that doesn't help when it comes to looking agreeable.

The only thing we saw him take a real life risk for was Flora (and considering it may be a way to cope with his personal guilt over abandoning his cousin to die, it may not be that glorious) and he keeps her on the dark. Oh, and that old guy in a barn, but we know so little of that man... I can't say anything about him.


Conclusion: nothing he did would make anyone looks good. For some he was forced, for others he "limited" the casualties, but at the end it's clear he looks after power first and moral come second, even if close. Almost every time he had to chose, he chose the first, and even when he didn't, it was in a situation who didn't put his position at risk. So of course some of us don't like him.

If one day he find himself "in front of the gallows" again, with no way to hide, would he react differently than in the old days? We can legitimately doubt.
I don't know if he ever felt any guilt towards leaving his cousin to die.
Hulk is strongest one there is -Incredible Hulk

In the name of the Mighty Legions of Predacons who preceded me I shall never again bow to your charge! But, I will heed your previous advice and face my true enemy AS A BEAST! -Predaking.

User avatar
ZeroJinKui
Banned
Banned
Posts: 174
Joined: Tue Apr 28, 2015 5:10 pm

Re: Comic for March 24, 2018

#24 Post by ZeroJinKui »

people hating on euchre, but i don't recall him doing anything... but they justify their hate by calling him arrogant.

...then why am i the only one who hates kei for that same kinda stuff?

i mean, kei is a worthless racist and former slave owner, isn't he?

flora was his "pet" before the start of the comic, wasn't she?

not to mention his arrogance toward trace earlier before finding out he was his boss just made me hate him more.

doubt euchre could ever be worse than kei. :redhair:
"What is better - to be born good, or to overcome your evil nature through great effort?" - Paarthurnax

User avatar
Hulk10
Templar GrandMaster
Posts: 897
Joined: Sat Sep 26, 2015 1:52 am
Location: Twokinds world where Keidran live long lives and do not have crystal limitations on their magic.
Fav. Twokinds Character: Flora, Nora, Kat.
Contact:

Re: Comic for March 24, 2018

#25 Post by Hulk10 »

ZeroJinKui wrote: Sun Mar 25, 2018 11:19 pm people hating on euchre, but i don't recall him doing anything... but they justify their hate by calling him arrogant.

...then why am i the only one who hates kei for that same kinda stuff?

i mean, kei is a worthless racist and former slave owner, isn't he?

flora was his "pet" before the start of the comic, wasn't she?

not to mention his arrogance toward trace earlier before finding out he was his boss just made me hate him more.

doubt euchre could ever be worse than kei. :redhair:
Oh I hate Kei too. But I forgot about him. And your right. He is just as bad as Euchre.
Hulk is strongest one there is -Incredible Hulk

In the name of the Mighty Legions of Predacons who preceded me I shall never again bow to your charge! But, I will heed your previous advice and face my true enemy AS A BEAST! -Predaking.

User avatar
Dadrobit
Grand Templar
Posts: 1216
Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2011 5:46 am
Location: Sunny Arizona

Re: Comic for March 24, 2018

#26 Post by Dadrobit »

Hulk10 wrote: Sun Mar 25, 2018 11:40 pm
ZeroJinKui wrote: Sun Mar 25, 2018 11:19 pm people hating on euchre, but i don't recall him doing anything... but they justify their hate by calling him arrogant.

...then why am i the only one who hates kei for that same kinda stuff?

i mean, kei is a worthless racist and former slave owner, isn't he?

flora was his "pet" before the start of the comic, wasn't she?

not to mention his arrogance toward trace earlier before finding out he was his boss just made me hate him more.

doubt euchre could ever be worse than kei. :redhair:
Oh I hate Kei too. But I forgot about him. And your right. He is just as bad as Euchre.
Because Kei has shown positive character growth towards overcoming some of his prejudices, and everything he's done or attempted to do while on page has been for the betterment of his people or Flora.

And for a large portion of owning Flora, she was not just a pet, they were best friends; Kei even used to stand up for her until peer pressure finally got to him at the end.

But for that one transgression well in the past, all y'all only see him as a character deserving of being slowly butchered and dying alone? All the while Trace kills hundreds of thousands of people, potentially even Flora's parents included, and is actively shown doing [censored] like tearing innocent keidran limb from limb and impaling them on stakes (actions for which he has not shown remorse) and he gets a pass?

Y'all be trippin'. :mrgrin:
Image

User avatar
Candycat
Citizen
Posts: 55
Joined: Sat Sep 02, 2017 9:49 am
Location: California

Re: Comic for March 24, 2018

#27 Post by Candycat »

I guess we don't really know what his motives are... He tells Rose "Think of all the magic I can learn from the humans! It's an art!" which implies Kiedran don't really have a way of learning advanced magic, but we don't know why he wants to learn this magic even if it might mean risking his life beyond learning magic for the sake of being knowledgeable. Although he does seem to have some sort of plan in motion, though if it was there from the start is unclear. If so his abandonment of Rose might have been in the "for the greater good" sense; like a double agent working for some organization. I mean we just don't know.

And it's not like it's all his fault. Rose knew he was deep in human territory, and what she did was the equivalent of a jewish person running into WWII Germany and nearly getting both herself and someone else she cares about killed. Someone who would have been just fine on their own. So why did Rose do this? This is never really explained other than Rose possibly missing him and making the rash decision to try and see him.

Sirus also had a significant role here; he was the one pushing for immediate execution, denying Euchre even a chance to save Rose without blowing his cover. (I wonder if he might have known about Euchre and his past... why would he care if some Keidran showed up? Seems a bit trivial for someone like him. But he was heavily involved anyways...)

I just don't think he's a horrible disgusting person. Certainly flawed, but not a monster.

olde trace was an actual monster
ImageImage
ImageImage
Image

User avatar
Hulk10
Templar GrandMaster
Posts: 897
Joined: Sat Sep 26, 2015 1:52 am
Location: Twokinds world where Keidran live long lives and do not have crystal limitations on their magic.
Fav. Twokinds Character: Flora, Nora, Kat.
Contact:

Re: Comic for March 24, 2018

#28 Post by Hulk10 »

New Trace is a much better person and he doesn't even remember his past atrocities.
Hulk is strongest one there is -Incredible Hulk

In the name of the Mighty Legions of Predacons who preceded me I shall never again bow to your charge! But, I will heed your previous advice and face my true enemy AS A BEAST! -Predaking.

aitaituo
Templar GrandMaster
Posts: 683
Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2010 10:02 pm

Re: Comic for March 24, 2018

#29 Post by aitaituo »

I'm in the Euchre Did Nothing Wrong (Probably) camp. I pretty much feel the same way about Kei, but don't give him credit for personal growth. Wolves are still locked up, IIRC. He's a product of his culture and has only been self-critical so far as people a girl he is trying to impress have forced him to be self-critical in a way that doesn't require serious self-examination or actual change. I wouldn't blame anyone for acting like that, but I also wouldn't praise them. It's just par for the course. Euchre on the other hand has always come across as a genuinely caring and kind person who was self-serving when the chips were down, but he was also facing almost certain death if he stood up for his better nature. If there is ever at time when sacrificing integrity and the well-being of others is justified, it's when you'd die pointlessly.

It's like that Nazi accountant that recently died. No one is going to say he was a good person for being the accountant at a death camp. But what did people expect him to do, go full Wolfenstein on the place? If anything, Euchre's quite a bit worse than that guy since he, AFAWK, willingly joined Trace's inner circle knowing Trace was a genocidal madman. It's interesting that people criticize Euchre on the basis of his personality, but it's rare to see people criticize him for being analogous to a Jewish person in Hitler's high command. Personally, I'm mostly withholding judgement on Euchre because I hope it turns out he was not a willing participant (there's obvious blackmail potential) or that he was somehow involved in Trace losing his memories, but it's just as likely he really was happy as a clam engineering the genocide of his own people.

Esn
New Citizen
Posts: 48
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2018 7:48 am

Re: Comic for March 24, 2018

#30 Post by Esn »

Ok... am I really the first to say it? I actually registered on this forum just to make this post because nobody is pointing out the obvious.

Mrs. Nibbly is Euchre. Using his Perfect Transformation spell.
Explains Euchre appearing to Rose NOW.
Explains his remark that he's "keeping an eye on family".
Explains why Mrs. Nibbly has followed Group B all this way.
Explains Mrs. Nibbly not being caught by Carver's magical trap, and then attacking him at the most critical moment.
Explains how Mrs. Nibbly resurrected after apparently having her neck broken ("I've learned to protect myself from such things as death")
Explains Mrs. Nibbly not being afraid of Scythe (a real squirrel would be).
Explains Mrs. Nibbly being terrified of a mind-reading dragon who would blow his cover (luckily, Reni too distracted to notice).
Explains why Mrs. Nibbly specifically chose Raine to hide on from Reni (Raine is the most likely person to defend Euchre if he was suddenly discovered).

As for the discussion about Euchre's character, I side with those who say that he (mostly) did nothing wrong, at least from what I can see so far. He is just a well-meaning, though somewhat ambitious, person who made some mistakes in his life and hurt some of the people he loved, but then tried (and is still trying) to correct them as best as he is able. I think he seems "smug" sometimes (including on this page) because he feels at peace with himself since he knows that he's doing his best, even if some others are angry at him and have unrealistic expectations.

---

I think Kei is okay, as well. He seems to be fairly good at his rather dangerous and important job, though sometimes too arrogant in the stereotypical "guardsman" fashion. He made a hurtful mistake when he was younger in how he treated Flora but has obviously wanted for a long time now to make up for it. And even though he kinda bungled the execution, he still did her a good deed. Yes, he has some lingering attitude issues, but no worse than "Red".

---
TheMouse wrote: Sat Mar 24, 2018 8:10 amBrahn's pet? Is that Mrs. Nibbly? Or something else lurking around?
I think that's a reference to Brahn's daughter (who was using a cat to spy on the mansion, particularly on Keith and Natani). Rose is calling her "Brahn's pet" because she seems to do everything that Brahn tells her to do.

---

By the way, what's up with the art for Rose's glasses? They have arms in panels 2 and 3, but not in panels 5 and 7.

Post Reply