Deus Ex Machina

[RedDwarfIV]

Discuss if you want, but I'm only really after a simple yes/no answer.

Ok, in my web-comic, one of the main characters [Felix] is a sleeper agent for the antagonist, and at some point in thew third chapter I plan to have him get hit by something in the head, resulting in the Kizantikiran's crew putting him through an MRI scan to see if he's injured. They find an unidentifiable implant, but not knowing how it would affect Felix to disable it, they leave it alone.

Is this a good way to avoid deus ex machina, by not "pulling plot points out of their rear ends" as a friend put it?

[avwolf]

That...would help. In the end, deus ex machina is really all about the resolution of a situation, so even establishing the implant's presence doesn't necessarily earn you a pass. It does change the implant into a Checkov's Gun, and if you execute it properly, you'll get a good payoff. But if you lead the characters into a situation where there's no way out and then you use the sleeper agent status "out of nowhere" to resolve the situation, it could still be interpreted as deus ex machina -- after all, it's not like Greek plays didn't establish that there were gods ahead of the gods actually showing up. If the resolution flows naturally out of the scene, or if it's something that, in retrospect seems obvious to the audience (i.e., a perfect twist), then your resolution is gold. If it seems sudden and still doesn't make a lot of sense after the fact, it's a form of deus ex machina.

Let's look at Twokinds for an example. The Master Spy gave Trace a modified subtleseed necklace to give to Flora, which gives him a strong enough bond to reach her when she's under Ephemural's control. When this is revealed, it'd been established that Flora had the necklace and that it had special properties, at least that it definitely strengthened the bond between Trace and Flora in some way. So it doesn't at all feel like Tom used deus ex machina to get Trace and Flora out of that situation.

Compare that to when Nora draws off the cat being used by the Master Sage to spy on Trace and company. While this isn't a particularly dramatic situation, so nobody got very upset when it happened, this is an example of deus ex machina. Nora appears out of nowhere with powers which have not been mentioned or demonstrated before and simply resolves what would be a dramatic situation with no effort or tension. She just shows up and the situation is resolved. The instantaneous resolution of a dramatic situation through means which do not address so much as simply remove the tension is a pretty good illustration of deus ex machina.

[RedDwarfIV]

But if you lead the characters into a situation where there's no way out and then you use the sleeper agent status "out of nowhere" to resolve the situation, it could still be interpreted as deus ex machina -- after all, it's not like Greek plays didn't establish that there were gods ahead of the gods actually showing up. If the resolution flows naturally out of the scene, or if it's something that, in retrospect seems obvious to the audience (i.e., a perfect twist), then your resolution is gold. If it seems sudden and still doesn't make a lot of sense after the fact, it's a form of deus ex machina.

Ok. Though the antagonist doesn't much care about her 'minions', and I didn't plan on having Felix save the situation as Dark Felix [just a name, nothing more special than he's being controlled. As you might imagine, an antogonist who uses the term 'minions' for her unwitting pawns might have a few other weird names floating about around her] - especially since I do plan to have him sabotage the ship.

After all, if you had a spy on an enemy ship, what would you tell them to do?

Let's look at Twokinds for an example. The Master Spy gave Trace a modified subtleseed necklace to give to Flora, which gives him a strong enough bond to reach her when she's under Ephemural's control. When this is revealed, it'd been established that Flora had the necklace and that it had special properties, at least that it definitely strengthened the bond between Trace and Flora in some way. So it doesn't at all feel like Tom used deus ex machina to get Trace and Flora out of that situation.

Good point, and well made.

Sorry that I have a skewed idea of what deus ex machina is, its just my friend gave the example of J K Rowling pulling the idea of Horcruxes from nowhere.

[TinyVoices]

I have a similar problem that I'd like to have an opinion on, that has to do with deus ex in stories, but despite my past records I actually don't like hijacking threads. It also has to do with my story, which for one is being written slowly, so the issue in question will probably not even be seen for at least a month or two. And two I don't want to give out too much info about events in the story. Especially since I fail at knowing what should or should not be kept secret at a certain point in time.

Dilemma if ever was one.

But I suppose my first question is if I can even post my comment, and/or if it would be better to have someone reply to it via PM.

[avwolf]

But if you lead the characters into a situation where there's no way out and then you use the sleeper agent status "out of nowhere" to resolve the situation, it could still be interpreted as deus ex machina -- after all, it's not like Greek plays didn't establish that there were gods ahead of the gods actually showing up. If the resolution flows naturally out of the scene, or if it's something that, in retrospect seems obvious to the audience (i.e., a perfect twist), then your resolution is gold. If it seems sudden and still doesn't make a lot of sense after the fact, it's a form of deus ex machina.

Ok. Though the antagonist doesn't much care about her 'minions', and I didn't plan on having Felix save the situation as Dark Felix [just a name, nothing more special than he's being controlled. As you might imagine, an antogonist who uses the term 'minions' for her unwitting pawns might have a few other weird names floating about around her] - especially since I do plan to have him sabotage the ship.

After all, if you had a spy on an enemy ship, what would you tell them to do?

So maybe it's less deus ex machina, and more of a worry that you're going to end up with a crappy plot twist? Look, if you establish that the villain is known for treating those that work for her as disposable, and can clearly convey (when it's important) that Felix is a sleeper agent and the implant has something to do with that, you'll end up with the audience in a blood-draining "oh no..." moment. Nail that part of the plot resolution (maybe slip hints that she's got a sleeper agent long before the implant's discovery) and you won't have anything to worry about.

Sorry that I have a skewed idea of what deus ex machina is, its just my friend gave the example of J K Rowling pulling the idea of Horcruxes from nowhere.

I don't know if your concepts are all that skewed or not, as I actually haven't read any of the Harry Potter books myself. But from what I've heard, if you look at the plot of Harry Potter from the perspective of needing to resolve the situation of making the villain more...durable and terrifying, the concept of the Horcrux as a deus ex machina isn't necessarily all that ridiculous.

But I suppose my first question is if I can even post my comment, and/or if it would be better to have someone reply to it via PM.

I don't see why not. I mean, sure, it's about your work rather than Red Dwarf's, but it's really the same topic, after a fashion. Better here than a new thread for a clearly related question. As for the other half of your query, you could use spoiler tags, or if you'd rather use PMs to keep everything a secret, there are more than a few members of the forums who could help you. V's been fairly inactive (I think...), so while I'd normally recommend her highly (she's edited work for me) she's probably not the best choice right now. I don't know how much people appreciate surprises, but Jedi and Talaisan would both be good choices because Jedi does NWC editing and Tal has offered to do so (he's also a talented writer, published even, I think, so he'd certainly be qualified). kryss is a great writer and has done editing work for me in the past; she might be willing to offer some help to you if you ask her nicely. And of course, Wynni and I, as moderators of the Story Board, would be happy to help out in any way we can (not to put words in Wynni's mouth).

[Akira110]

After all, if you had a spy on an enemy ship, what would you tell them to do?

Well to answer that question, if you ever watched Star Trek: Generations(This movie has several of the blasted Deus Ex Machinas throughout its plot, but I'm only going to use one specific example), you'll have noticed that the Duras Sisters made Geordi their unwitting spy. Now they didn't have him sabotage the ship, oh no, they used him to find out the energy frequency of their shielding, which allowed them to "kill" the Enterprise-D, but at the cost of their own lives... this not only answers your question, but is an example of a Deus Ex Machina(Albeit done right within the confines of Star Trek.)

[RedDwarfIV]

After all, if you had a spy on an enemy ship, what would you tell them to do?

Well to answer that question, if you ever watched Star Trek: Generations(This movie has several of the blasted Deus Ex Machinas throughout its plot, but I'm only going to use one specific example), you'll have noticed that the Duras Sisters made Geordi their unwitting spy. Now they didn't have him sabotage the ship, oh no, they used him to find out the energy frequency of their shielding, which allowed them to "kill" the Enterprise-D, but at the cost of their own lives... this not only answers your question, but is an example of a Deus Ex Machina(Albeit done right within the confines of Star Trek.)

Star Trek does have a lot of them. Mostly involving creatures that can't be killed with conventional weapons so they fire a neutrogluoquarkon from the deflector dish which makes everything go allright again.

[Kilroywuzheere]

A deus ex machnica is a type of plot device used to solve conflict quickly and suddenly, either because the author wrote themselves into a corner, or because the author doesn't believe the resolution of the conflict is worth the attention an established plot device demands. Deus ex Machina can be used effectively to solve conflict that isn't supposed to take center stage in a story, or when the resolution cannot be reached in a realistic manner without introducing something new.

That being said, you should avoid them when you can, as simply establishing a character or idea before its used turns it into a regular plot device instead of deus ex machina. Sometimes tho, they work well to maintain focus or brevity, such as in Greek Tragedy where the focus of the story is actually the build up of conflict until it destroys the main character. At the end, to wrap up the remaining plot points, a god comes in to fix the issues as the focus wasn't on how these problems were solved, but what effect the problems had on the characters.

The real tell of a deus ex machina is never how unexpected it is, but how easily it fits into the world it sprang from. If you're set in the real world, a nuke is far less likely to be a deus ex machina than say, an oribital ion canon.

Sorry that I have a skewed idea of what deus ex machina is, its just my friend gave the example of J K Rowling pulling the idea of Horcruxes from nowhere.

I don't know if your concepts are all that skewed or not, as I actually haven't read any of the Harry Potter books myself. But from what I've heard, if you look at the plot of Harry Potter from the perspective of needing to resolve the situation of making the villain more...durable and terrifying, the concept of the Horcrux as a deus ex machina isn't necessarily all that ridiculous.

Yeah but even then, J.K. laid hints in previous books about the Horcruxes, many times over actually. They just never revealed what they were/why they were important til way later because even in magic settings, its still an example of technobabble.

There are two Horcruxes that appear before its revealed what they are, and both are revealed to have a deep connection to Voldemort. Tom Riddle's Diary in... I'm honestly not sure which book it's in, but it was before book 6 where Horcruxes are explained, was revealed to be Voldemort's diary as a youth, it even starts interacting with Harry, and can't be destroyed by conventional means.

Spoiler!

Harry's also a Horcrux (its not a spoiler if the reveal is already as old as this is) and its shown many times that Harry has a far deeper connection to Voldemort than is likely without him being one.

In the end, its still not a deus ex machina, as those are used to resolve conflict so the author doesn't have to figure out how to get the characters to do it. Sure, its still a plot device, but plot devices, good or bad, are only deus ex machina when they solve conflict, and the Horcrux expand the conflict, and it also fits rather nicely and easily into the world's established mythos.