Capitalist vs Socialist ideologies

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Capitalist vs Socialist

Traditional Capitalism
3
13%
Modern Socialism
7
30%
Hybrid
12
52%
Neither
1
4%
 
Total votes: 23

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Razmoudah
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Re: Capitalist vs Socialist ideologies

#16 Post by Razmoudah »

No, I'd have to argue with you on that. I'd say that this forum has a large number of people who see flaws in the current system and the only 'fixes' they know of are borrowed from socialism.

No, as for the U.S. becoming a socialist state, it's already happening. Socialism doesn't require the government to own all business, that is specific to communism, it just requires that the government steps in and takes care of everyone. In other words a welfare state is also a form of socialism, and the U.S. is fast becoming a welfare state.

Personally, I voted hybrid, because there are useful, even beneficial, aspects in both, and just excluding an aspect because it comes from "the wrong side" can greatly hurt a nation. Part of what led to the U.S.S.R.'s collapse was the lack of a free economy, as the U.S. developed the U.S.S.R. eventually couldn't compete in the world economy because they lacked the internal self-incentives to promote development of more capable products. They may have been able to make what they made better, but that doesn't matter significantly when someone else can make something that is significantly more capable, or versatile instead. But that's just one tiny example in a sea of argument.
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Insomniac
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Re: Capitalist vs Socialist ideologies

#17 Post by Insomniac »

Razmoudah wrote:and just excluding an aspect because it comes from "the wrong side" can greatly hurt a nation.
It's worth mentioning that after Obama was elected, much of the Republican party's doctrine was 'oppose everything Obama supports or puts forward, even if it would be objectively good for the country'. So yeah, excluding an aspect of something just because it comes from "the wrong side" is absolutely harmful to a nation.
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Razmoudah
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Re: Capitalist vs Socialist ideologies

#18 Post by Razmoudah »

Yeah, there is an absolutely perfect example of what the Republicans did from that policy too. Remember the Budget Crisis of 2010? The Republicans refused to agree to any budget proposed by the Democrats, and this even included the exact same budget the Republicans originally proposed when it was proposed by the Democrats as they were willing to give in to them. The federal government came within days of going bankrupt over that mess, and things have only gone downhill since.
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The Rookie
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Re: Capitalist vs Socialist ideologies

#19 Post by The Rookie »

TinyVoices wrote:I wonder why this forum has so many socialist minded individuals on it. The forum seems extremely biased towards that ideology, gathered from both this thread and the 2016 U.S. election thread.
Well to be honest, the bulk of us are fairly supportive towards gay relationships, freedom of religion, trans peoples, furries and so on. Things that traditionally very conservative minded people seem like they'd be against. I mean if you came out as a furry or trans person in front of a trump supporter, chances are they'd react as if you had a mental illness.

I just don't think our little community would see a lot of common ground with those kinds of people. I mean that's probably a very stereotypical view on the subject, but that's my logic for the massive difference in numbers between the two groups here.
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Re: Capitalist vs Socialist ideologies

#20 Post by midnightblink »

I agree with Rookie on why we lean more socialist. You have to admit that this forum is VERY progressive socially, and progressives almost always lean more towards liberal and socialistic viewpoints
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Re: Capitalist vs Socialist ideologies

#21 Post by TinyVoices »

midnightblink wrote:I agree with Rookie on why we lean more socialist. You have to admit that this forum is VERY progressive socially, and progressives almost always lean more towards liberal and socialistic viewpoints
We do have a few lurkers who realize that them being Republican and/or Conservative makes them stand out negatively with our group.

I wouldn't say we're inherently hostile towards the Right, but we're certainly a left-winged website. I know I prefer coming here than a few of the other sites I used to frequent. Reddit is extreme left wing, and Funnyjunk is often cranked up to 11 two thirds the time Right and the other third to the Left. It's cool to read differing opinions, but the extremists just bring in so much hate that I can't find a practical reason to debate. (To be fair, though, I've noticed at least 3 forumites being extreme left-wingers... Can't be perfect. >_> )


Ok, so that's why this forum is often "socialist". We are indeed Left sided, but with that we want to try new ideas to make society better. It just so happens that those new ideas involve using cherry-picked practices from socialism in order to improve Capitalist economies, thus making a democratic socialist economy like those in Europe. The opposite being conservatives, who are traditional and want to try older methods in order to improve society.

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Re: Capitalist vs Socialist ideologies

#22 Post by Razmoudah »

No, I think the bigger problem here is that even those who aren't extremists still tend to view the other side as extremists, mostly thanks to those extremists being the loudest. Thankfully this forum doesn't have that many extremists, which makes it a lot easier to have relatively civil discussions.
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Re: Capitalist vs Socialist ideologies

#23 Post by Zylver »

I would say the following:
- Traditional Capitalism: 18th century England with child and women labour, exploitation of workers, and all the "fun stuff".
- Socialist: this is what was basically born out of Traditional Capitalism to prevent the exploitation of workers, have labour rights, normal working hours, ban on child labour, etc.
- Hybrid: this is the welfare society, like today's UK and the northern EU countries, they are the mixture of capitalism (corporates do their own business freely WITH the regulations of the government) and socialism (which focuses on the welfare of the citizens via social benefit system, basic healthcare, free education), they are not impossible to achieve, but need a lot of effort to do that (ask the post-socialist East-European countries about their progress!)
-Neither: now this is something I can't think of :D a deserted island or an illiberal democracy? (ask about the latter, I would LOVE to talk about that :grin: )

So, yeah, some definitions need to be clarified here, but I think a lot of people did that quite good before me. Especially about the the whole socialist-communist jibberjabber! :D
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