GREXIT

[Zylver]

So...
Will it happen or not?
What do you guys think about the whole Greek situation that has been going on for a week now?

[cliffpanther]

Well, since we know the referendum results we can now assume it already is happening. I mean people have way too many economical privileges (ex. The government will pay you 10% of your base pay if you claim to speak a foreign language, another 10% if your work is mostly done in front of a computer. Their constitution says it's illegal to fire a bureaucrat once he is employed*). It's a nasty, nasty mess Europe should not volunteer to clean up if they don't cooperate.
It's as if the Greek people were on a train running fast towards a cliff and the bridge is gone and they voted "no" to apply the brakes because their luggage may fall. God damn it, Greece! Think for once!
And that's why I'm glad there can be no referendum on economical matters here in my country.

--
*Disclaimer: Information in brackets comes from a known university's profile in my country, and I did not have time to verify it against any other reliable source, yet I assume that profile is run by a responsible person.

[asphere8]

Greece is incredibly corrupt. Tax evasion is the norm there. In an interview, a government official was completely serious when he said that if the income tax law were enforced, every doctor in Greece would be in prison. Doctors could make millions of Euros annually, but report incomes of less than 10k€ and pay no taxes. They need to clean up their act.

[Nuff]

Dumb EU shouldn't have let them join in the first place. Now they will default on the loans and never pay them back. EU should refuse trade with them and let them live in the poop that their lifestyle has lead them to. Screw greece and their [censored] economy

[cliffpanther]

EU allowed them to join because they hoped for $$$ from international tourism. It was a bad decision, but hey - there were other corrupt countries that joined EU and didn't go bankrupt, in fact, some of them got better. Maybe not perfect, but better.
They COULD get out of this, but they don't want to - so they will get out of EU instead. And it will be even worse for them if they are excluded from the Schengen zone - fewer tourists, less income.

[asphere8]

Dumb EU shouldn't have let them join in the first place.

Isn't the only reason they got in because they lied about their economy in the first place? The relatively recently elected government decided to come clean and that's why they're in the situation they're in?
My information is probably wrong. Please correct me if it is.

[Nuff]

Everyone who has ever been to Greece knows that they take cash to avoid paying taxes and other such trickery so if everyone is doing that and being allowed to then of course the government is doing simular. A failure to properly investigate their finances when alarm bells ate ringing is an epic [censored] up.

[Zylver]

[video]https://youtu.be/C8xAXJx9WJ8[/video]

A little visual debriefing of the situation... quite accurate and finally I understood what is the difference between monetary and fiscal policy The ending is a bit apocalyptic, though

[avwolf]

Great video, Zylver!

I personally think Greece leaving the Eurozone is the right choice for both Greece and the rest of the European Union. Yes, it's going to be brutal for everybody, but as the video noted, Germany is only as good at managing its budget as it is because there was a point in the relatively recent past that the Deutschmark was worth less than toilet paper. It's...unkind, but a bit of tough love for Greece might set them on the right fiscal track. Though there's likely to be some really nasty years in the meantime.

Another thing I think is interesting about the Grexit is that it's been discouraging other EU countries from fully adopting the Euro, for fear of ending up in this mire themselves. I read an article about Poland, who've been dragging their feet on adopting the Euro anyway, viewing this as a good reason to keep putting it off, perhaps indefinitely.

I don't tend to think that a full fiscal policy union is necessarily required to maintain the Eurozone, but the ECB needs to establish particular fiscal policy goals (maintaining deficit within a particular percentage of GDP or some such) before permitting borrowing. Essentially, I figure that the ECB needs to return to a concept of enforced individual "credit ratings" for countries rather than, as the video puts it, "letting everyone use Germany's credit card."

[cliffpanther]

Another thing I think is interesting about the Grexit is that it's been discouraging other EU countries from fully adopting the Euro, for fear of ending up in this mire themselves. I read an article about Poland, who've been dragging their feet on adopting the Euro anyway, viewing this as a good reason to keep putting it off, perhaps indefinitely.

Agreed. Politicians here keep using the euro to scare the people. "See, if you vote for our rivals, they will give you euro, and you will be poor!", they say. They show us images of poor, old people that can't afford to buy basic supplies and medicines because they cost SO MANY EUROS.
Which is completely pointless because Polish economy is just not stable enough to meet the criteria of the Eurozone in the nearest four years.