Star Wars Episode 7

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Re: Star Wars Episode 7

#16 Post by Tuna »

Akira110 wrote:
Tuna wrote:...and multi-blade lightsabres mean that, to use them safely, the wielder would have to keep their wrists very stiff,
First of all. Technically it's not a blade. Second of all... the [censored] that they do in the other movies with the spinning your blade around and flourishing, would get you killed fast. Third of all, have you ever used a sword!? A sword is effectively most useful when you use your wrist. It's a style of finesse, not power. If you look at the other movies, when they're not flourishing, they're using power type strikes, which AGAIN would get you killed. The only saving grace is that their blade has Zero weight, which means they can recover faster. And finally, if you hit your own wrist guard or yourself with your wrist guard, you are doing something fundamentally wrong to begin with.
Did you even read my post? All I was saying was that this new sabre setup will require a different style than they usually use. Your points don't address anything I actually said. You just seem to be venting your frustrations over the ridiculousness of Star Wars' sabre fighting styles in general, none of which I was even remotely defending.

...and they are blades. I mean, they're a dozen or so inches of burning plasma, right? If running your finger across them will tend to leave you fingerless, then they are blades. A blade can be a guard, but a guard doesn't have to be a blade.

Aaaanyway, anything we say about it at this point is only conjecture, drawn from two seconds of video. They could be cherry Twizzlers for all we know.
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Re: Star Wars Episode 7

#17 Post by jacobc62 »

Guys, you're all forgeting ONE THING!

Regardless if the guards are seperate beams, they're still beams! they'd function effectively the same as the guards on a medival sword. And since it's common knowledge that lightsaber beams can NOT cut through other lightsaber beams, they shouldn't be able to cut through the guard beams, which start well within the hilt and not where the guard beam focuses end, so it's actually somewhat better protection than without the guards on them.
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Re: Star Wars Episode 7

#18 Post by Insomniac »

jacobc62 wrote:Guys, you're all forgeting ONE THING!

Regardless if the guards are seperate beams, they're still beams! they'd function effectively the same as the guards on a medival sword. And since it's common knowledge that lightsaber beams can NOT cut through other lightsaber beams, they shouldn't be able to cut through the guard beams, which start well within the hilt and not where the guard beam focuses end, so it's actually somewhat better protection than without the guards on them.
If that were the case, then every time a lightsaber has been sliced through near the emitter wouldn't have happened. Just off the top of my head, that includes at least a few from the movies (in the Kenobi/Grievous fight). I remember at least two of Grievous' sabers being sliced through right under the emitter.
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Re: Star Wars Episode 7

#19 Post by jacobc62 »

We don't even know if this guy is a Sith Lord or not! Hell, he could just be a random dude whom happens to have dark intentions and found out how to build and use a Light Saber!


Imagine if Star Wars took place in a D&D/Pathfinder setting. Jedi would be Paladins, Sith would be Anti-Paladins. For all we know, this guy could just be a high-level Fighter that uses a broadsword or [censored]-sword type of Light Saber instead of the traditional longsword style that most Jedi and Sith used in the Knights of the Old Republic, Old Republic MMORPG, and Star Wars prequels. Now granted, knowing the title is "The Force AWAKENS", this is most likely a guy who turns to the Dark Side of the force after discovering he has the ability to use it. But, hey, anything for the sake of anticipation and guessing just to debate a tool used by Sith and Jedi alike. :P
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Re: Star Wars Episode 7

#20 Post by Akira110 »

Tuna wrote:
Akira110 wrote:
Tuna wrote:...and multi-blade lightsabres mean that, to use them safely, the wielder would have to keep their wrists very stiff,
First of all. Technically it's not a blade. Second of all... the [censored] that they do in the other movies with the spinning your blade around and flourishing, would get you killed fast. Third of all, have you ever used a sword!? A sword is effectively most useful when you use your wrist. It's a style of finesse, not power. If you look at the other movies, when they're not flourishing, they're using power type strikes, which AGAIN would get you killed. The only saving grace is that their blade has Zero weight, which means they can recover faster. And finally, if you hit your own wrist guard or yourself with your wrist guard, you are doing something fundamentally wrong to begin with.
Did you even read my post? All I was saying was that this new sabre setup will require a different style than they usually use. Your points don't address anything I actually said. You just seem to be venting your frustrations over the ridiculousness of Star Wars' sabre fighting styles in general, none of which I was even remotely defending.

...and they are blades. I mean, they're a dozen or so inches of burning plasma, right? If running your finger across them will tend to leave you fingerless, then they are blades. A blade can be a guard, but a guard doesn't have to be a blade.

Aaaanyway, anything we say about it at this point is only conjecture, drawn from two seconds of video. They could be cherry Twizzlers for all we know.
:kathrin:
Yes, I did read your post. But your post was like the fifteenth thing about that Lightsaber handguard that I responded to that day. Like I said, you can't keep your wrist stiff if you are using a sword, as the wrist is extremely important to swordplay. If you feel a compulsion to do that, because your cross guard could potentially harm you, switch to an axe.

The same exact moves you've seen in episodes 1-6, they can continue to pull off, the only difference is, is that their hand is now less vulnerable while doing them. I was addressing the point that you would have to keep your wrist stiff. If you manage to hit yourself with your own crossguard, the sword is not a weapon for you.
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Re: Star Wars Episode 7

#21 Post by InceptionBwaaa »

Relevant
Fawkes wrote:NEW STAR WARS: THE FORCE AWAKENS TRAILER!!!

Ahem, that is all.
Oh my god. Oh m-- g.. hhah..

So, are they doing the Invincible series, or going straight to Legacy?
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Re: Star Wars Episode 7

#22 Post by MeaCulpa, S.C.M. »

The whole EU's been scrapped, remember? (Or maybe that's some new thing for the movies I don't know about?)

But I think the lightsaber thing is a smart idea, if you have metal guards under what he has already, then it would work as a guard. Though it's established there are energy shields in Star Wars--why Jedi don't use them I have no idea...I guess Darth Vader had one, actually, if you remember episode VI, it took Luke a couple whacks to get through his hand. I guess if I were a Jedi I'd just use that and put one around me and my lightsaber. Come to think of it pretty much all Jedi don't seem to take advantage of technology as much compared to other people. They never carry blasters, even when they would be useful, they don't use armor or energy shields. I get being fast but if something keeps you alive it's usually worth being a little slow.

So I guess more Jedi need to be like Darth Vader, but I suppose LucasArts has known that for years.

Man all I can say is, that trailer looks [censored] amazing, but this [censored] better be worth losing 1313.
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Re: Star Wars Episode 7

#23 Post by Myperson54 »

So I have basically next to no knowledge of EU, but this trailer does suggest to me that the Solo children might make an appearance, and that this Sith lord is either Caedus, or a Sith that Caedus might fight before he turns. Renamed, of course, to protect the movie IP.

Anyone with more knowledge than me think this might be the case.
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Re: Star Wars Episode 7

#24 Post by asphere8 »

JJ Abrams ruined the Star Trek movies by making them too much like Star Wars. I'm half expecting him to do the opposite for the Star Wars film.
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Re: Star Wars Episode 7

#25 Post by Myperson54 »

Fawkes wrote:
asphere8 wrote:JJ Abrams ruined the Star Trek movies by making them too much like Star Wars. I'm half expecting him to do the opposite for the Star Wars film.
I can't say I know a whole lot about Star Trek or watched the Abrams versions all the way through, but I heard that most of the fans enjoyed them. If you would share what exactly you feel is wrong about this and what concerns you think may happen, maybe we can understand your concerns about this. As far as I know Abrams was carefully selected for this task because of his abilities and being a fan of the series himself, from what little we've seen about the movie it seems to be going in the right direction.
Abrams was actually a lifelong Star Wars fan before he got involved in the Star Trek universe, and I'd put his ability to make an authentic SW movie pretty high up on the list. He has a whole team of past Lucasfilm people working with him, including writers and directors from past Indiana Jones and Star Wars films, who are helping him stay authentic.

I also disagree with the notion that somehow he made the Star Trek movies too much like Star Wars - If anything, he just cut down on the talking and increased the ship battles.

Star Wars is partly unique in that it has a storytelling method of describing the setting through acting. There are no long-winded explanations; Anything leading up to the Original Trilogy is explained by the characters actions, and is explained as fully as the viewer needs to know. (E.g. The viewer doesn't need to know what the Clone Wars are, but they can infer by Luke's surprise that Ben was in them, and that he and Anakin were very important people. That's all you need to know to understand form that point on.) It's the same thing as in Blade Runner (Director's Cut) and to some extent, Guardians of the Galaxy.

The new Star Trek movies are rather un-Star-Trek compared to basically every other IP in the series, but they aren't like Star Wars at all. They're action-filled, yes, but Star Wars also spends a good deal of time worldbuilding and focusing on character development through the struggles of the main cast. The new Star Trek movies are in my opinion, just generic space movies.

All that said, I liked them. Were they completely honest to Star Trek as an IP? No, not really, but they weren't bad movies on the whole. Should they have moved away from the old IP to create new stories instead of reimagining old ones? Perhaps. I know that's another common complaint. Are they like Star Wars? As far as I'm concerned, absolutely not.

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Re: Star Wars Episode 7

#26 Post by Insomniac »

MeaCulpa, S.C.M. wrote:The whole EU's been scrapped, remember? (Or maybe that's some new thing for the movies I don't know about?)

But I think the lightsaber thing is a smart idea, if you have metal guards under what he has already, then it would work as a guard. Though it's established there are energy shields in Star Wars--why Jedi don't use them I have no idea...I guess Darth Vader had one, actually, if you remember episode VI, it took Luke a couple whacks to get through his hand. I guess if I were a Jedi I'd just use that and put one around me and my lightsaber. Come to think of it pretty much all Jedi don't seem to take advantage of technology as much compared to other people. They never carry blasters, even when they would be useful, they don't use armor or energy shields. I get being fast but if something keeps you alive it's usually worth being a little slow.

So I guess more Jedi need to be like Darth Vader, but I suppose LucasArts has known that for years.

Man all I can say is, that trailer looks [censored] amazing, but this [censored] better be worth losing 1313.
Just a little nitpick, it only took Luke one swing to slice off Vader's hand. The swings leading up to that hit the lightsaber.
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Re: Star Wars Episode 7

#27 Post by y7h65 »

MeaCulpa, S.C.M. wrote:The whole EU's been scrapped, remember? (Or maybe that's some new thing for the movies I don't know about?)

But I think the lightsaber thing is a smart idea, if you have metal guards under what he has already, then it would work as a guard. Though it's established there are energy shields in Star Wars--why Jedi don't use them I have no idea...I guess Darth Vader had one, actually, if you remember episode VI, it took Luke a couple whacks to get through his hand. I guess if I were a Jedi I'd just use that and put one around me and my lightsaber. Come to think of it pretty much all Jedi don't seem to take advantage of technology as much compared to other people. They never carry blasters, even when they would be useful, they don't use armor or energy shields. I get being fast but if something keeps you alive it's usually worth being a little slow.

So I guess more Jedi need to be like Darth Vader, but I suppose LucasArts has known that for years.

Man all I can say is, that trailer looks [censored] amazing, but this [censored] better be worth losing 1313.
Well, even if the events of the EU post 0ABY is technically scrapped, we can still use information provided by it that expands on the setting and technology. Especially if they're in referral to events up to 0BBY since the New Trilogy only changes events that happen ABY. Off Wookiepedia, the personal energy shield article notes that "By the time of the Battle of Naboo, personal shields that covered an entire being existed, but produced radiation and magnetic fields that were dangerous for sustained use". Furthermore, it notes that while personal shields were possible for living beings, the Republic only gave them to elite commando units.

Also, the Jedi Knights are literally Jedi Knights. They're a monastic order of folks who follow a certain code. The problem is, the Old Jedi Order which the prequel shows, really do not like their Jedis wearing and making use of conventional equipment such as armour and blasters. It's mentioned that one subsect of the Old Jedi Order, the Paladins, did in fact make use of conventional arms and fighting styles enhanced by force abilities. They were also heavily ostracized and feared to be darksiders. The use of blasters and armor only became approved for Jedis after Luke Skywalker founded the New Jedi Order.

As for Vader being lightsaber resistant, there really isn't any explanation aside from him having deflected the lightsaber away with either his own lightsaber or small applications of the Force. Of course, my own personal guess and suspicion is that parts of Vader's new armor and body were either made of or reinforced by cortosis, phrik, or Mandalorian Iron. It'd be costly but I wouldn't be surprised if the Emperor had opted to make sure that his new manservant wouldn't be easily dispatched by a lucky lightsaber blow.
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Re: Star Wars Episode 7

#28 Post by Insomniac »

y7h65 wrote:
MeaCulpa, S.C.M. wrote:The whole EU's been scrapped, remember? (Or maybe that's some new thing for the movies I don't know about?)

But I think the lightsaber thing is a smart idea, if you have metal guards under what he has already, then it would work as a guard. Though it's established there are energy shields in Star Wars--why Jedi don't use them I have no idea...I guess Darth Vader had one, actually, if you remember episode VI, it took Luke a couple whacks to get through his hand. I guess if I were a Jedi I'd just use that and put one around me and my lightsaber. Come to think of it pretty much all Jedi don't seem to take advantage of technology as much compared to other people. They never carry blasters, even when they would be useful, they don't use armor or energy shields. I get being fast but if something keeps you alive it's usually worth being a little slow.

So I guess more Jedi need to be like Darth Vader, but I suppose LucasArts has known that for years.

Man all I can say is, that trailer looks [censored] amazing, but this [censored] better be worth losing 1313.
Well, even if the events of the EU post 0ABY is technically scrapped, we can still use information provided by it that expands on the setting and technology. Especially if they're in referral to events up to 0BBY since the New Trilogy only changes events that happen ABY. Off Wookiepedia, the personal energy shield article notes that "By the time of the Battle of Naboo, personal shields that covered an entire being existed, but produced radiation and magnetic fields that were dangerous for sustained use". Furthermore, it notes that while personal shields were possible for living beings, the Republic only gave them to elite commando units.

Also, the Jedi Knights are literally Jedi Knights. They're a monastic order of folks who follow a certain code. The problem is, the Old Jedi Order which the prequel shows, really do not like their Jedis wearing and making use of conventional equipment such as armour and blasters. It's mentioned that one subsect of the Old Jedi Order, the Paladins, did in fact make use of conventional arms and fighting styles enhanced by force abilities. They were also heavily ostracized and feared to be darksiders. The use of blasters and armor only became approved for Jedis after Luke Skywalker founded the New Jedi Order.

As for Vader being lightsaber resistant, there really isn't any explanation aside from him having deflected the lightsaber away with either his own lightsaber and applications of the Force. Of course, my own personal guess and suspicion is that parts of Vader's new armor and body were either made of or reinforced by cortosis, phrik, or Mandalorian Iron. It'd be costly but I wouldn't be surprised if the Emperor had opted to make sure that his new manservant wouldn't be easily dispatched by a lucky lightsaber blow.
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Insomniac wrote:Just a little nitpick, it only took Luke one swing to slice off Vader's hand. The swings leading up to that hit the lightsaber.
Although yeah, pretty sure his suit did have some small amount of lightsaber resistance, given the glancing blows Luke gave him in previous encounters and earlier in that encounter. Though I'm surprised this conversation didn't mention him soaking the blaster shots from Han in Empire. Course, if that had come up, I would've noted that it was almost certainly just him using the force and not some unseen shield.
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Re: Star Wars Episode 7

#29 Post by y7h65 »

Insomniac wrote:
Insomniac wrote:Just a little nitpick, it only took Luke one swing to slice off Vader's hand. The swings leading up to that hit the lightsaber.
Although yeah, pretty sure his suit did have some small amount of lightsaber resistance, given the glancing blows Luke gave him in previous encounters and earlier in that encounter. Though I'm surprised this conversation didn't mention him soaking the blaster shots from Han in Empire. Course, if that had come up, I would've noted that it was almost certainly just him using the force and not some unseen shield.
Well, many of the materials I listed all have the property at being really, really, really good at not being damaged. Since Luke actually cut off Vader's hand, I'd guess that he could have either had cortosis elements in place or a cortosis weave in his armor since it was the weakest of the three materials I mentioned. Cortosis is also noted to be rather resistant to blaster fire which would also explain why he could soak the blaster shots from Han.
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Re: Star Wars Episode 7

#30 Post by Insomniac »

y7h65 wrote:
Insomniac wrote:
Insomniac wrote:Just a little nitpick, it only took Luke one swing to slice off Vader's hand. The swings leading up to that hit the lightsaber.
Although yeah, pretty sure his suit did have some small amount of lightsaber resistance, given the glancing blows Luke gave him in previous encounters and earlier in that encounter. Though I'm surprised this conversation didn't mention him soaking the blaster shots from Han in Empire. Course, if that had come up, I would've noted that it was almost certainly just him using the force and not some unseen shield.
Well, many of the materials I listed all have the property at being really, really, really good at not being damaged. Since Luke actually cut off Vader's hand, I'd guess that he could have either had cortosis elements in place or a cortosis weave in his armor since it was the weakest of the three materials I mentioned. Cortosis is also noted to be rather resistant to blaster fire which would also explain why he could soak the blaster shots from Han.
Damn, it's the weakest? In one of the books, I forget which one, it took Luke and Mara several hours just to cut through a wall of it because it shorted out their lightsabers as soon as they made contact with it...
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