Star Wars Episode 7

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Schrodinger
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Re: Star Wars Episode 7

#61 Post by Schrodinger »

foxlord wrote:
Schrodinger wrote:
TheFrozenSlime wrote:I just got back from seeing it with some family, I'll put a bit of the discussion we had after here:
Spoiler!
1. Han Solo dying made sense for the movie; of all the original trilogy characters to go, he made the most sense because Ford wanted Solo killed off in Return of the Jedi, and now they don't have to pay him 5 million per movie to play the part

2. It felt like the plot was a bit rushed; 3 people who had never seen each other before coming together and almost instantly having this working, "I've known you for years" synergistic relation? C'mon.

3. Kylo Ren was a bit "hypocritical"; He's supposed to be powerful (he can stop a blaster bolt - pure energy) and have formal training, yet puts up too little a fight against Fin, who had never had training with a lightsaber and who had earlier almost had his butt kicked by a guy with a stick? Why didn't he just go after him with the Force, like he did to Rhea earlier?
Overall, it was a good movie, and I look forward to the next one.
Spoiler!
Yeah, my complaints with the movie can be summed up as, "It's New Hope and Empire smashed together with a villain and hero on an inverse power curve." I made the joke with my friends that Kylo started to go down the tubes the moment he took the helmet off while Rey is power-leveling through the runtime. She starts as a capable scavenger and ends as jedi Mary Sue.

I'll forgive the writing of Kylo since he's more consistent. Powerful and dangerous but raw and unrefined, just like his lightsaber (good theming there).
Kylo's a child struggling to match a legacy that took twenty years to develop.
Agreed on all counts. Not sure what else to put here really.
Spoiler!
Addendum, I've seen the film again and I retract the Mary Sue comment. She has flaws, she makes mistakes, and she has an arc through the runtime. Rey is still on an intense power curve but that has just as much to do with the pace of the entire movie as it does with her as a character. Kylo has had a lot of very good propping up in his favor like this here. Kylo's weakness is his insecurities which Rey had demonstrated she could exploit earlier in the film. She only beat him after tapping into the Force and forcing the gravely injured and emotionally unstable Ren onto the defensive.

JJ was attempting to tap into the nostalgia of the original trilogy (second viewing helped me see he was tapping all three films for ideas) and did his own movie a minor disservice since it wasn't allowed to breathe and develop so the characters suffer as a result. Hopefully the next movie can take this new trilogy out of the nostalgic past and into a bright future.
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Re: Star Wars Episode 7

#62 Post by Sable Dove »

Spoiler!
Well, when they fought him, Kylo was kinda emotionally wrecked, not to mention wounded by what the entire movie has been hyping up to be an abnormally-powerful weapon. Let's not assume that killing his father killed his emotions/sentimentality and made him stronger just because that's what he wanted it to do. Kylo Ren just killed his own father, and not only is he in turmoil over it, he's in turmoil over the fact that he's in turmoil over it.
And again, wounded by a shot that probably would have killed a lesser man three times over.
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Re: Star Wars Episode 7

#63 Post by Schrodinger »

Sable Dove wrote:
Spoiler!
Well, when they fought him, Kylo was kinda emotionally wrecked, not to mention wounded by what the entire movie has been hyping up to be an abnormally-powerful weapon. Let's not assume that killing his father killed his emotions/sentimentality and made him stronger just because that's what he wanted it to do. Kylo Ren just killed his own father, and not only is he in turmoil over it, he's in turmoil over the fact that he's in turmoil over it.
And again, wounded by a shot that probably would have killed a lesser man three times over.
Spoiler!
As powerful as Chewie's Bowcaster was portrayed as being it's amazing that Kylo could even walk let alone keep his entrails on the inside. He even beats on the wound in the middle of his fight with Finn in order to better tap into the Dark side because of the turmoil you mentioned.
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Re: Star Wars Episode 7

#64 Post by Bellhead »

GAH!!! SPOILERS EVERYWHERE!!! Thank you, all of you, for putting those behind spoiler tags, by the way. Now nothing will be spoiled before I seee it myself.. Can't wait to see. won't read spoilers until then. Much frustration.

I HATE being stuck where there's no movie theatres for a 20-mile radius.
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Re: Star Wars Episode 7

#65 Post by foxlord »

Damn dude, 20 miles? Where do you live?
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Re: Star Wars Episode 7

#66 Post by Insomniac »

There's two theaters within ten miles of me, but the ones we prefer are farther away. It's not exactly far though if you have a car lol
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Re: Star Wars Episode 7

#67 Post by Vintage »

I found this image rather amuzing:
Spoiler!
Image
Both NH and TFA still had differences (like the existence of Finn), but it's rather funny when they're both compared.
I still loved the movie though.
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Re: Star Wars Episode 7

#68 Post by Bellhead »

Not where I live. Where I was house-sitting. And I'm home now, so I'll just keep an eye on the cinema, and head over when it's not raining. Maybe I can get a Matinee rate...

EDIT:
IT WAS AWESOME!!!!!!!! It TOTALLY ROCKED! I did miss the old cantina band though. :wink:
Spoiler!
Since when does the dark helmetted bad guy take off his helmet on a regular basis? Also, evil supreme leader douche is evil.

Was a little suprised that the Millenium Falcon was just sitting in a junkyard, with the keys in it, and the door open. That think saved the friggin' galaxy, and yet you leave it open with the keys in it. Hate whoever did that.
10/10, want to see it again.
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Re: Star Wars Episode 7

#69 Post by trantor »

After I saw it last weekend I have to agree with the plot summery from WMM :)

It is Episode IV in new clothes. A Star Wars Film even for people which haven't seen any of them before (ok you miss a few insiders, but it works good - I was with a girl there and it was her first Star Wars). Overall the movie is a good one.

But the plot himself is awully bad if you have a look at the whole Star Wars Universe. I really sensed as I saw the movie that Disney made a total reset to have free hands at the story after Return of the Jedi.

Like this:
Of course Disney needs to rejuvenate most characters. But a general in his early twenties? Pleeeeease! I also want a CEO-Grade Position at once when I came from school! This is just total crap in a military organisation. A organisation that is placed as successor from the Empire!
As there was no single major/general or govenour from the old empire left.

I really dislike that Disney reseted the whole later History. If some of you ever read the books which play after Return of the Jedi you know that there was a (for myself) excellent storyline for more than a dozen cinema movies (3 Solo kids - 1 gets dark, Luke married, Alien Invasion etc.)

I am really sad that the EMPIRE (Disney) destroyed that.

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Re: Star Wars Episode 7

#70 Post by Insomniac »

trantor wrote:After I saw it last weekend I have to agree with the plot summery from WMM :)

It is Episode IV in new clothes. A Star Wars Film even for people which haven't seen any of them before (ok you miss a few insiders, but it works good - I was with a girl there and it was her first Star Wars). Overall the movie is a good one.

But the plot himself is awully bad if you have a look at the whole Star Wars Universe. I really sensed as I saw the movie that Disney made a total reset to have free hands at the story after Return of the Jedi.

Like this:
Of course Disney needs to rejuvenate most characters. But a general in his early twenties? Pleeeeease! I also want a CEO-Grade Position at once when I came from school! This is just total crap in a military organisation. A organisation that is placed as successor from the Empire!
As there was no single major/general or govenour from the old empire left.

I really dislike that Disney reseted the whole later History. If some of you ever read the books which play after Return of the Jedi you know that there was a (for myself) excellent storyline for more than a dozen cinema movies (3 Solo kids - 1 gets dark, Luke married, Alien Invasion etc.)

I am really sad that the EMPIRE (Disney) destroyed that.
I personally would've freaked the frak out if they adapted the Thrawn trilogy, or the Han Solo trilogy as a sort of in between the prequels and the original trilogy...
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Re: Star Wars Episode 7

#71 Post by Vintage »

trantor wrote:I really dislike that Disney reseted the whole later History. If some of you ever read the books which play after Return of the Jedi you know that there was a (for myself) excellent storyline for more than a dozen cinema movies (3 Solo kids - 1 gets dark, Luke married, Alien Invasion etc.)

I am really sad that the EMPIRE (Disney) destroyed that.
Which is something I was going to mention. There was already canon Star Wars content that took place after Return of the Jedi, but it all had to be retconned after Disney essentially overrode it with TFA. But did I prefer the retconned story over the new one? I don't know. Since the former stories never became movies, it's harder for me to think of them as canon. However, all the time, effort and planning that the authors of the retconned content had to spend might as well have resulted in nothing or be considered "in an alternate universe" now, which is kinda inconsiderate of Disney to do.
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Re: Star Wars Episode 7

#72 Post by Schrodinger »

TheWMM wrote:
trantor wrote:I really dislike that Disney reseted the whole later History. If some of you ever read the books which play after Return of the Jedi you know that there was a (for myself) excellent storyline for more than a dozen cinema movies (3 Solo kids - 1 gets dark, Luke married, Alien Invasion etc.)

I am really sad that the EMPIRE (Disney) destroyed that.
Which is something I was going to mention. There was already canon Star Wars content that took place after Return of the Jedi, but it all had to be retconned after Disney essentially overrode it with TFA. But did I prefer the retconned story over the new one? I don't know. Since the former stories never became movies, it's harder for me to think of them as canon. However, all the time, effort and planning that the authors of the retconned content had to spend might as well have resulted in nothing or be considered "in an alternate universe" now, which is kinda inconsiderate of Disney to do.
It's not like those stories stopped existing just that they don't have anything to do with this new trilogy of films.
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Re: Star Wars Episode 7

#73 Post by Vintage »

Schrodinger wrote:
TheWMM wrote:
trantor wrote:I really dislike that Disney reseted the whole later History. If some of you ever read the books which play after Return of the Jedi you know that there was a (for myself) excellent storyline for more than a dozen cinema movies (3 Solo kids - 1 gets dark, Luke married, Alien Invasion etc.)

I am really sad that the EMPIRE (Disney) destroyed that.
Which is something I was going to mention. There was already canon Star Wars content that took place after Return of the Jedi, but it all had to be retconned after Disney essentially overrode it with TFA. But did I prefer the retconned story over the new one? I don't know. Since the former stories never became movies, it's harder for me to think of them as canon. However, all the time, effort and planning that the authors of the retconned content had to spend might as well have resulted in nothing or be considered "in an alternate universe" now, which is kinda inconsiderate of Disney to do.
It's not like those stories stopped existing just that they don't have anything to do with this new trilogy of films.
True, but for them not to be canon anymore makes them become more like...fanfiction, I suppose? I guess the point is that they've lost their former importance.
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Re: Star Wars Episode 7

#74 Post by Schrodinger »

TheWMM wrote:
Schrodinger wrote:
TheWMM wrote:
trantor wrote:I really dislike that Disney reseted the whole later History. If some of you ever read the books which play after Return of the Jedi you know that there was a (for myself) excellent storyline for more than a dozen cinema movies (3 Solo kids - 1 gets dark, Luke married, Alien Invasion etc.)

I am really sad that the EMPIRE (Disney) destroyed that.
Which is something I was going to mention. There was already canon Star Wars content that took place after Return of the Jedi, but it all had to be retconned after Disney essentially overrode it with TFA. But did I prefer the retconned story over the new one? I don't know. Since the former stories never became movies, it's harder for me to think of them as canon. However, all the time, effort and planning that the authors of the retconned content had to spend might as well have resulted in nothing or be considered "in an alternate universe" now, which is kinda inconsiderate of Disney to do.
It's not like those stories stopped existing just that they don't have anything to do with this new trilogy of films.
True, but for them not to be canon anymore makes them become more like...fanfiction, I suppose? I guess the point is that they've lost their former importance.
I'd consider them as part of an alternate timeline. But I can see how you might feel that way.
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Re: Star Wars Episode 7

#75 Post by trantor »

Schrodinger wrote:
TheWMM wrote:
Schrodinger wrote:
TheWMM wrote:
trantor wrote:I really dislike that Disney reseted the whole later History. If some of you ever read the books which play after Return of the Jedi you know that there was a (for myself) excellent storyline for more than a dozen cinema movies (3 Solo kids - 1 gets dark, Luke married, Alien Invasion etc.)

I am really sad that the EMPIRE (Disney) destroyed that.
Which is something I was going to mention. There was already canon Star Wars content that took place after Return of the Jedi, but it all had to be retconned after Disney essentially overrode it with TFA. But did I prefer the retconned story over the new one? I don't know. Since the former stories never became movies, it's harder for me to think of them as canon. However, all the time, effort and planning that the authors of the retconned content had to spend might as well have resulted in nothing or be considered "in an alternate universe" now, which is kinda inconsiderate of Disney to do.
It's not like those stories stopped existing just that they don't have anything to do with this new trilogy of films.
True, but for them not to be canon anymore makes them become more like...fanfiction, I suppose? I guess the point is that they've lost their former importance.
I'd consider them as part of an alternate timeline. But I can see how you might feel that way.
Alternative timeline....I really start to hate this sentence. Star Trek - Alternative timeline, Marvel movies - Alternative timeline, Star Wars - Alternative timeline, etc.

Is it that hard to create a film to a storyline? To answer this by myself - unfortunately yes. Espacially the way Hollywood like to work.

I don't blame the movie for that. I blame Disney for a excellent storyline that is dead now and is not going to be followed anymore.

My only critics in the movie were, to much too young (and if you take Ren also a brat) characters in unrealistic positions.

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