Military will be given right to detain US citizens

[the red soldier]

Senator Rand Paul from Kentucky, son of presidential candidate Ron Paul, voiced concerns over the bill on the Senate floor on Wednesday. "Under the provisions, wouldn't it be possible, then, that an American citizen could be declared an enemy combatant and sent to Guantanamo Bay and detained indefinitely?"

John McCain, who had helped write out the relevant provision in the bill, responded: "I think that as long as that individual, no matter who they are, if they pose a threat to the security of the United States of America, should not be allowed to continue that threat."

OH [censored] NO.

McCain deserves to be lynched, just for that.

Aside from that, though, I'm having trouble finding a place where this bill says what everyone's saying it does, even McCain. I am clearly missing something, need to find the passages of whatever that these things modify.

Having a tin foil hat on, this bill really does sound bad and totalitarian... Athough I know very little about it.

[Kinuki]

So, okay, it seems like those new provisions will 'just' legalize all the extralegal measures spawned by the War On Abstract Nouns Terror and that weren't already covered by the Ermächtigungsgesetz PATRIOT Act.

So, yepp, this does away with part of the Constitution. But wait with the indignation, think about it for a moment. In a time where Saddam, Osama and practically all leaders of Al Qaeda are either dead or hiding from our troops and fearing for their sorry lives, why does that get pushed through? To protect us from the ZOMG tewwwowists that lurk in every shadow? Hardly. To lock up dissidents who dare to protest against the exploitation of America by some corporates powerful enough to lobby any desired law into existence? DINGDINGDING Jackpot!

Apparently the police doesn't suffice as the repressive apparatus anymore and the Army has to help out. Well, maybe the detainees make the best of the situation and call it 'Occupy Gitmo' or something.

Isn't part of his oath of office '...to uphold and support the constitution of the united states of america...'?

Sure, but that didn't stop Nixon and Dubya, did it?

[TinyVoices]

Oh hay, it just hit me. It's the third red scare. Except it isn't dirty reds in every crevice of government this time.

[Talaisan]

Oh hay, it just hit me. It's the third red scare. Except it isn't dirty reds in every crevice of government this time.

It's just people who have power, and want to keep it, using and abusing it.

[TinyVoices]

What else is new. Surprise, though, the checks and balances system has loopholes, because the masses can't really put their hands in there to stop it. Many times it has happened. Many times it will still happen. And simply voting in [insert faction here] won't magically fix it...

[johnH]

Just trivia, their was an the ermächtigungsgesetz hwhich pretty much the same thing as described and at the very least the same provisions existed in germany to protect the nth amendment.
to my understanding their is no obvious flaw with the weimar republic so it's not like this isn't something to seriously worry about or something where the people can just shrug and say the supreme court will deal with it.

Oh hay, it just hit me. It's the third red scare. Except it isn't dirty reds in every crevice of government this time.

It's just people who have power, and want to keep it, using and abusing it.

Power corrupts absolute power corrupts absolutely is true but often not discussed why it corrupts absolutely.
People will act in accordance to their own interests leaders mostly get isolated they may talk to foreign leaders but they are less likely to come into contact with the people, their opinions are more likely to be shaped by those already in power, who's vested interests already involve such acts. also our form of ''democracy'' benefits demagogues alot. their isn't any simple measure though, simply saying that ellection promises should be binding, one needs a mechanism for removing politicians on account of their decisions, at the very least.

[MrFlyingAmoeba]

What...what is this, I don't even..Seriously? I can't see the courts ever approving this bill if it does what they're saying.

[johnH]

What...what is this, I don't even..Seriously? I can't see the courts ever approving this bill if it does what they're saying.

A number of senior german politicians members of various political groups, and so forth tried to pull down the "ermächtigungsgesetz" suffice to say it didn't work even if it had worked, it would have been a remedy to slow, to be effective against an act passed so rapidly.

Isn't part of his oath of office '...to uphold and support the constitution of the united states of america...'?

Sure, but that didn't stop Nixon and Dubya, did it?

Oaths aren't even legally binding even if they were they wouldn't have stopped Reagen or Dubya.

[Kinuki]

A number of senior german politicians members of various political groups, and so forth tried to pull down the "ermächtigungsgesetz" suffice to say it didn't work even if it had worked, it would have been a remedy to slow, to be effective against an act passed so rapidly.

People today, especially we Americans, don't recognize fascism when they see it due to a prevalent, very skewed understanding of history, unless it involves genocide. Curtailment of civil liberties? Why, that's only for enhanced protection of the public, of course! A wave of ultranationalism that rolls over the country and sweeps away all reason and tolerance? Just patriotism, move along!

We did nothing when Dubya brought back concentration camps in the form of Gitmo and secret CIA outposts.

We did nothing when some rich [censored] dismantled democracy because they think of themselves as Übermenschen who can command us Untermenschen as they please.

America hasn't left its Dark Age, not by a long shot.

[Kilroywuzheere]

The NDAA is the bill that basically allows our country to fund the military and there is an NDAA bill passed every year. And every year there's some really dumb thing added in because this bill passes every time. Usually its harmless except for a gross misappropriation of funds. Sadly this time its a malicious thing that got added. Admittedly, with every passing day, I find new fascism invading America and my urge to move to some place in Europe or Canada grows.

The president can veto this but Congress has such a majority that they can easily OVERRIDE THE VETO, meaning its pushed into law anyway. And then it falls to the courts. Only I fear that once this bill passes, due to it not allowing a trial, the courts won't hear a single case of someone being detained, and anyone that tries to bring the bill to the court's attention will likely be labeled a terrorist and detained as well. And honestly, if this thing gets passed and they start abusing the power, I doubt the courts could really stop them anyway. :T

This bill gives the government a dangerous amount of power, and honestly, I don't wanna be around when they finally start abusing it, cause you know they will.

[Wynni]

Snarky thought: what if this is really about killing funding for the military? If it passes, yay, they have an easily abusable power. If it doesn't pass, yay! they've all that money that doesn't go to the military to use.

[Kinuki]

The same bigwigs who want to legitimize the abuse are members of the military-industrial complex, so that's highly improbable.

[primalcaller ergos]

hmm....appearently, this is all going to end up causing the whole of the country to become as militaristic as as many other nation states that they've dispised in the past...

anyone else want a a bowl of idiocy to go with the hypocresy? yeah, me neither, but it seems we're gonna get it anyways.

here's the worst part though: if they're actually considering this, then aproving the media censorship (aka "anti-infringement") bill will be a no brainer to them.

honestly, why not just aprove a law that says the system can have apsolutely anyone assassinated at a moment's notice without heed nor warning nor consequence.

as the way it's going now, that acutally might happen eventually.... makes me wonder sometimes if john titor was correct all along....

[Windwaker]

Aside from that, though, I'm having trouble finding a place where this bill says what everyone's saying it does, even McCain. I am clearly missing something, need to find the passages of whatever that these things modify.

The relevant sections are 1031 and 1032, you can control-f them.

[TinyVoices]

That's a lot of religion related posts coments on the site that the op mentions. Now how are they relevant? Scratch that, religion is always related on the internet.

There's also a lot of doomsayers on there... Now, let me be a bit ignorant here...
I've read a few dystopian books, but I still don't see them 100% logical. What could someone get out of tricking X million minds into letting that someone micromanage the masses? I mean, in our world. Forget about boots on human faces, and "interactive" TV.