Dirty Bomb (F2P Open Beta)

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Nuff
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Dirty Bomb (F2P Open Beta)

#1 Post by Nuff »

Looked for a thread on this game but didn't find one, thus made this. At it's core Dirty Bomb is a ojective based team game where 2 teams take the roles as either the attacker or the defender. Developed by Splash Damage the game resembles their earlier title Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory in gameplay and with any luck will go on to live up the the legacy of what was one of the best competative games of it's time. There are multiple Mercs 2 of which you start with and the others must be pruchased with either in game gold or real dolladolla. It's a simular system to many other F2P games and although not having access to all the Mercs is a slight downer they do have a weekly rotation so you get to try out the ones you don't own every once and a while. Like I said you can buy them with in game gold too and although it takes a decent chunk of game time to earn the gold you can boost this by completeling the in game challenges.

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Grab the game on steam now! It's Free!: http://store.steampowered.com/app/333930/

I've been playing this a decent amount of the past couple of weeks and the more I learnt he maps and the Merc's playstyles the more I'm enjoying it. I think it's a great bridgeway between the likes of TF2 and CS:GO. It's colourful and fun but at it's core lives a highly tactical and competative game which is what it's ranked match making is for. Like CS:GO this is a 5v5 match up, which is what the game was designed for and balanced for. Still if that's not your bag the more chaotic 8v8 servers are there for you to play in. There are even servers for newbies that have a level cap of level 5 stopping seasoned players rolling in there to crush and and giving newer players a chance to learn the game against their own skill groups.

For those waiting for the like of Overwatch from Blizzard then I suggest giving this a game. Each Merc has thier own ability that can be used in game, be it to call in an airstrike or to whip out their minigun and mow downt heir foes. It could be a good introduction to having those elements in a FPS for when Overwatch enters it's open beta some time next year.

Anyways I recommend it if you like fast paced, objective based FPS action.

Watch me and my friends being [censored] at the game here: http://www.twitch.tv/tehnuffster/v/10186501
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Re: Dirty Bomb (F2P Open Beta)

#2 Post by primalcaller ergos »

I already watched AngryJoe's video about this game, and far as I can tell, it can be summed up pretty neatly like this:

-The game itself is really fun, and plays like a more realisitic/serious version of TF2. (with overwatch like abilities)

-The Random Number Generation based loot system and monetization is pure garbage. Paying real money for the *chance* at something good is beyond stupid and pointless.
At least in TF2 every weapon you get out of a crate is strange quality and is thus of superior value to a drop. Here the minimum is silver cards, which you can get by crafting bronze ones together with free points.

Still the latter part is not a dealbreaker nor does it ruin the whole expirence. It just makes P2P stuff pointless and F2P way better.

Basically if the devs completely rework the monetization system from the ground up then this could be an extrememly good game.
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Re: Dirty Bomb (F2P Open Beta)

#3 Post by Sithil »

primalcaller ergos wrote:-The game itself is really fun, and plays like a more realisitic/serious version of TF2. (with overwatch like abilities)
It actually plays very little like TF2. TF2 is shock full of projectile weapons, everything from rocket launchers to bow and arrow, the closest thing to an effective automatic weapon is the Heavy's minigun. Whereas in Dirty Bomb near enough every weapon is an automatic, the alternative is the exception, sniping is far closer to that of Counterstrike(no charge up time for full damage), explosives are far rarer but also far more destructive, and there is nothing like the difference in speed and health between in characters that TF2 has(90 to 120 health, 100% to 125% speed, as opposed to the cast gulfs of TF2). Really, all in all, it's closer to Counterstike, and -then- you might argue it's spliced in a bit of Overwatch, but since Dirty Bomb is out and Overwatch is not, I personally consider it to be its wholly own creature.
primalcaller ergos wrote:-The Random Number Generation based loot system and monetization is pure garbage. Paying real money for the *chance* at something good is beyond stupid and pointless.
At least in TF2 every weapon you get out of a crate is strange quality and is thus of superior value to a drop. Here the minimum is silver cards, which you can get by crafting bronze ones together with free points.
As for this... this is ridiculous. Sure, in TF2 every weapon received from a crate is guaranteed to be of Strange quality(Whoop-de-doo, maybe if you're lucky after 5 crates you'll be able to trade those for a hat). On the other hand, the -only- way to open a TF2 crate, is with a key, which can -only- be purchased for real life currency. Sure, you can trade for one on some marketplace, but at some point, someone spent money on it. In Dirty Bomb, you can buy the Equipment Cases for in game currency. It costs roughly as much as you receive from completing 1-2 of the quests handed to players every 4 hours. And, you also receive them for free, roughly one for every three matches you play. You can also combine several of the Loadouts you receive from the Cases of the same quality, to create one Loadout of the superior quality(and for a specified class, too), again for only a very minor in-game currency cost. So, the only game where the company offers you no option but, "paying real money for the *chance* at something good," is TF2. And while you might say, that TF2 regularly offers players random drops(capped at 10 per week), which can be melted into metal, which in turn can be traded for just about anything if you have enough of it, thanks to the drop cap it'll probably take a few good weeks for you to melt together enough items to trade for one key. No such cap in Dirty Bomb.

I regret every euro I ever spent on the TF2 crate system, Dirty Bomb has as yet cost me nothing, nor do I feel it is twisting my arm in any way, not even through arbitraty drop caps and currency gain constraints.
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Re: Dirty Bomb (F2P Open Beta)

#4 Post by Nuff »

It doesn't play like TF2 it plays like Enemy Territory. Also AngryJoe is a fully fledged retard

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Re: Dirty Bomb (F2P Open Beta)

#5 Post by MrFlyingAmoeba »

I'm not thrilled to see that Nexon is involved, but otherwise the game seems like a good time.
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Re: Dirty Bomb (F2P Open Beta)

#6 Post by Schrodinger »

Nuff wrote:It doesn't play like TF2 it plays like Enemy Territory. Also AngryJoe is a fully fledged retard
Quoted for [censored] truth but what specifically brought out that statement?
What was it the spider said to the fly...

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Re: Dirty Bomb (F2P Open Beta)

#7 Post by primalcaller ergos »

Well actually, the main reason why I said the things that I did is that in TF2, the strange weapons are exactly the same as the normal ones, just with a kill counter attached to them.

Where as in dirty bomb, the higher quality cards are objectively better than the lower quality ones, as the lead cards only have 1 perk but the silvers have 3.

This means that you're paying for a direct power increase instead of something purely cosmetic.

However it is true that being able to craft the cards together means that you're not paying to win, you just buy the elite crates as a shortcut to save time.

This "monetization as a shortcut" aspect is the only reason why I said they should rework their entire business model from the ground up.
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Re: Dirty Bomb (F2P Open Beta)

#8 Post by Nuff »

MrFlyingAmoeba wrote:I'm not thrilled to see that Nexon is involved, but otherwise the game seems like a good time.
I've never had any problems with Nexon but then again i don't think I've played many games with them involved. I assume since they are running DOTA2 in korea that they are heavily involved in the MMO market? (Korea does seem to love the daily grind of those kinda games). I'm guessing they are probably the ones that designed the business model, Splash Damage doesn't have a record for that kinda thing, I mean Enemy Territory was F2P and Brink didn;t have such things as far as I'm aware (though I'm not very informed on that I'll be honest).
Schrodinger wrote:
Nuff wrote:It doesn't play like TF2 it plays like Enemy Territory. Also AngryJoe is a fully fledged retard
Quoted for [censored] truth but what specifically brought out that statement?
Well I should probably stress I wasn't trying to lash out at primalcaller ergos when I typed that even though on reflection the bluntness of my reply could be seen that way. I just find that using AngryJoe as a point of reference to anything (especially instead of your own hands on experience) is less that worthless. The guy has made a living and shouting is poorly observed opinions about whatever floats in his direction but he really should be the last person to listen to about videogames, he doesn't know [censored]. At least listen to TotalBiscuit if you want grumpy looks at games from someone who actually has working business knowledge of the industry, hell even Yahtzee is a better bet.
primalcaller ergos wrote:Well actually, the main reason why I said the things that I did is that in TF2, the strange weapons are exactly the same as the normal ones, just with a kill counter attached to them.

Where as in dirty bomb, the higher quality cards are objectively better than the lower quality ones, as the lead cards only have 1 perk but the silvers have 3.

This means that you're paying for a direct power increase instead of something purely cosmetic.

However it is true that being able to craft the cards together means that you're not paying to win, you just buy the elite crates as a shortcut to save time.

This "monetization as a shortcut" aspect is the only reason why I said they should rework their entire business model from the ground up.
As far as weapons go each has it's strengths and weakness' and are where most of the balancing of the game has been focused, so getting different load outs shouldn't make you more powerful, just better in different situations. Although I do feel that there are a couple of SMG's that could do with a good nerf. Perks are only very slight benefits but what you say is right, you can pay for those advantages even if they are only minor. I'd not ever stretch to calling them Pay-to-Win.

When things get shifted towards the competative scene I think that the loadout cards are likely to have to be changed entirely or they will just falt out be banned from competition, much like 90% of the weapons in TF2 are banned from the competative scene. Keep the pay for Mercs option, ditch loadout cards or keep them but drop perks from them, add perks to leveling up (so every 5 levels you unlock a new perk and you can combine 3 different perks per merc, like if you had a bronze or above loadout card) and add cosmetics (because hats work, ask dota2, tf2, SMITE and many others).

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Re: Dirty Bomb (F2P Open Beta)

#9 Post by primalcaller ergos »

Actually, I did listen to totalbiscuit about the game.

Don't worry, I actually figured you were not lashing out at me Nuff, I don't assume the worst about other people's words.

Although I am a little dissapointed that you think AngryJoe is ignorant, as I think he makes some good points at times.

Yeah it is not pay to win at all, but I am still against paid shortcuts in general.

For example, I really like league of legends, but to this day I think it was dumb that Riot games made it so that you can buy new champions to play as with the real currency riot points.
I think it would be so much better if they made it so that the riot points can only buy cosmetics like skins, and then you can only use the in game currency influence points to get new characters to play as.
That way you have to actually play the game in order to unlock stuff that has an effect on the actual game play, as opposed to buying a shortcut past the progression system the game has.

This is the same reason why I am still really angry at blizzard for having the audacity to sell level 90 character boosts for world of warcraft.
I actually defended them selling mounts on the blizzard store, and I even defended them selling them race and faction changes.
However selling something that lets you by pass 90% of the game's content means that they shot themselves in the foot because now all the work they put into making that content has been wasted on anyone who is rich and impatient enough to buy their way past it all.

Either way in the end I still think Dirty Bomb will be a fun game to play for years to come, and although just in my opinion I dislike their monetization and actually agree with AngryJoe on it, the good news is that because this is a free to play game I literally have the ability to just play it without spending a single cent if I really want to.
IN addition I already said this is not a deal breaker for me, as I've played plenty of other games that had business models I disliked.

In fact, I actually also dislike the business model of TF2 up to a point, because Nuff is right: It really is a RNG "spend to hope you get something good" system.
I've been playing TF2 off and on again for years now, but after all this time Ive actually only spent like 10$CAN on it in total because usually I only get a key or two if I bought an entirely different game off the steam store and now have 2-3$ dollars left over in the steam wallet.

So I dislike TF2's crate system too, I just find tolerable because I've only ever put "spill over" money into it, and I would find it a lot more difficult to tolerate it if TF2 didn't share the exact same account credit as the rest of steam.
On the other hand, now that I think about it, can you use steam wallet funds for Dirty Bomb's in game store? If so then that would shut me up pretty quickly.

Either way, I will stress here that I dont even dislike this game. Im really just saying I dislike the payment sytem of a free to play game because Im a very picky and spoiled person. :P
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Re: Dirty Bomb (F2P Open Beta)

#10 Post by y7h65 »

primalcaller ergos wrote: For example, I really like league of legends, but to this day I think it was dumb that Riot games made it so that you can buy new champions to play as with the real currency riot points.
I think it would be so much better if they made it so that the riot points can only buy cosmetics like skins, and then you can only use the in game currency influence points to get new characters to play as.
That way you have to actually play the game in order to unlock stuff that has an effect on the actual game play, as opposed to buying a shortcut past the progression system the game has.
That's completely off base. The champion you buy doesn't have as much impact on how well you do as it does how well you play. You don't progress in the game by buying champions. You progress in the game by learning the roles you're best suited at and then the intricacies of your preferred champion for the role. For instance, my little brother owns all the champions in game due to a combination of gifts, the occasional RP, and the fact he spends almost four hours a day playing LoL. His favourite champion, and best champion, is Garen. A champion so cheap he's usually purchased first thing for anyone who wants to play Top Lane. With this basic starter champion, he has carried countless numbers of games, defeated much more expensive champions, and usually ends up with a K/D of at least 5:1. Buying champions isn't the point of LoL. Being good with champions is the point.
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Re: Dirty Bomb (F2P Open Beta)

#11 Post by primalcaller ergos »

y7h65 wrote:
primalcaller ergos wrote: For example, I really like league of legends, but to this day I think it was dumb that Riot games made it so that you can buy new champions to play as with the real currency riot points.
I think it would be so much better if they made it so that the riot points can only buy cosmetics like skins, and then you can only use the in game currency influence points to get new characters to play as.
That way you have to actually play the game in order to unlock stuff that has an effect on the actual game play, as opposed to buying a shortcut past the progression system the game has.
That's completely off base. The champion you buy doesn't have as much impact on how well you do as it does how well you play. You don't progress in the game by buying champions. You progress in the game by learning the roles you're best suited at and then the intricacies of your preferred champion for the role. For instance, my little brother owns all the champions in game due to a combination of gifts, the occasional RP, and the fact he spends almost four hours a day playing LoL. His favourite champion, and best champion, is Garen. A champion so cheap he's usually purchased first thing for anyone who wants to play Top Lane. With this basic starter champion, he has carried countless numbers of games, defeated much more expensive champions, and usually ends up with a K/D of at least 5:1. Buying champions isn't the point of LoL. Being good with champions is the point.
I completely agree with you there. It's not even close to a power increase because the newer champions are not stronger than older ones (sometimes it's even the opposite :o )

It's just that I've encountered a lot of people in a match that admit to having started playing the game that same week and in some cases that same day but already have like 20 different 6300 IP cost champions because they bought them with RP,
and then they end up dragging down the whole team because not only do they have no idea how to play the champion they are currently using, they also have no idea to how to play the game in general. some of them take multiple turret shots at level 4.

To use your example, Garen is perfectly suited to being a "easy to learn difficult to master" champion who is dirt cheap because his mechanics are simple, reliable, and he makes a great starting point for anyone learning how to play the game.

However when any newbie has the ability to buy Yasuo, Leblanc or Riven or any other high difficulty complex champion (the champion pages have a difficulty bar on them for a reason, even if they are not always accurate) with RP
it means that some new players will do really badly in their first few games because they are playing a champion they never learned how to use they might get upset and just quit the game entirely.

How this relates to dirty bomb is that being able to buy new mercs with real money can lead to the exact same problem.

Comparing this to TF2 again, in that game all nine classes are availible to you from the start, but it was not always that way. In the game's early days, you had to unlock some of the classes.
So back then people actually got the chance to learn about the game before trying more complex classes, and now although they don't get that anymore they do get the chance to practice and experiment with the class they enjoy the most right from the start.

Basically what I am getting at here is that there are advantages and disadvantages to both options, and they are mutually exclusive.

All in all Dirty bomb is a rather new game so it having room for improvement is to be expected. I see it as having a lot of potencial though, so I am actually hoping that it does well.
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Re: Dirty Bomb (F2P Open Beta)

#12 Post by y7h65 »

That just sounds like every low level match I've ever been in, especially when someone is trying a new champion. I mean, level 4? They probably only recently unlocked Normal Matches. Of course they're gonna suck. You can't just compare someone who literally just got in the game with people who know what they're doing and expect that the two will exhibit the same, or similar, levels of comprehension and awareness of basic game mechanics. They probably either have not gotten a handle on the dash champ's dash yet or made a big decision that didn't pay off. Hell, I still see people do stupid [censored] at level 25 by accident so it's by no means limited to just people spending money on the game " never [learning] how to use [the champion]". I mean, I've only ever bought skins with RP and bought all my champs with IP but even I still do things like accidentally flashing into enemy turret range.

And if people decide to disregard the very obvious set of bars, decide not to work hard to learn their champ, and/or to drop the game because they think it's too hard after having spent real money on the game then that's their choice and decision, not yours. You can judge them for it, of course, but I seriously doubt they're gonna drop the game after a few bad matches after spending money on it. Especially if they have friends playing.
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Re: Dirty Bomb (F2P Open Beta)

#13 Post by primalcaller ergos »

That is all very true, and it's similar to how the TF2 fanbase still has not come to a consistent conclusion on "Does f2p = noob?" thing even after these years of the game being free to play.

The thing is I am well aware that there is going to be some people who have no idea what they are doing no matter what we or the developers do, but I still think paid shortcuts make this already existant problem much worse.

Any video game development team is a business that exists to make money, that's the purpose of the whole industry. So I figure that any business would want their players to stick around and keep buying stuff for as long as possible.
This means that if their players get fed up and quit that reduces the total potencial revenue the developers are receiving, so it is well within their interests to minimize stuff that could even have the remote potencial to drive them away.

The whole reason as to why I started commenting in this thread in the first place was because I actually want this game to succeed and I see giving constructive critiscisms of it and pointing out what I consider to be problems it has to be best way to improve it.
If this game doesn't at least make some tweaks to it's business model then it can and will continue to run into the same problems it already has right now.

Speaking of that, I just checked the user reviews the game has on it's steam store page, and there are a lot of people on there complaining that the game has inadequate cheating/hacking prevention measures and cheaters are running rampant in some games. Anyone here having that problem?
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Re: Dirty Bomb (F2P Open Beta)

#14 Post by Nuff »

All FPS's suffer from hacking as it's one of the easier hacks to make and can be easily masked by a player with any sort of braincell. While we wait for the replay and proper spectator stuff to be added (a MUST if they want to take this game into the competative scene) hacks will be easier to show and players easier to report.

The F2P model also makes hackers a problem with them able to make a steam account purely for hacking and if it gets banned who cares they can just make a new one. It's a problem that arises in both TF2 and in DOTA2 which are both F2P.

There have been a couple of exploit bugs in the game as well with there being certain areas you can place a turret that allows it to shoot through the wall at people. Rhino players are also able to abuse this, it'l be patched out soon with any luck. There is also a problem with one of the mounted guns and people having their models heavily distorted making them very hard to headshot. Plus the other day the server thought my body was in one place while on my screen I was somewhere else. This meant I was unable to be seen by enemies and I couldn't hurt them (my body according to the server was shooting a wall) however I was able to revive people with my medgun, like some sort of necromancer ghost! It all started whent he game wouldn't let me respawn.

It's a beta though. Beta is where we debug.

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Re: Dirty Bomb (F2P Open Beta)

#15 Post by asphere8 »

Because it's a Nexon game, I brushed it off at first (I used to play Combat Arms, *shudder*) but reluctantly gave it a shot when a friend recommended it. I had fun for a little while but it got old quickly. It just felt like another reincarnation of Combat Arms to me. Just another Nexon game. It had the Nexon feel, and because it's a Nexon game it's inevitably very pay-to-win. Dirty Bomb isn't quite as p2w as Combat Arms (yet) but it's definitely there and always hanging over your head.
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