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Lief
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Re: Overwatch

#31 Post by Lief »

Open Beta for Overwatch is this weekend, 6th to 9th. So uh, if people "can't try it out for free", they're stupid and aren't paying any attention to the game anyways.

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Re: Overwatch

#32 Post by Razmoudah »

What he means is a free trial period, of one week or two weeks, once the game actually releases. Not everyone who might be interested even knows it exists at present, and what about those who don't have free-time on the weekends? They couldn't participate even if they wanted to. That is what he is referring to.


Also, I agree that one of them will probably be forced to go free 2 play within a year of Overwatch's release, although I'm expecting that more to be Overwatch. I'm actually rather surprised that Blizzard is making it a pay-for game from the get go, as they haven't done that with Heroes of the Storm.
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Re: Overwatch

#33 Post by Nuff »

There is some serious misunderstandings in this thread that I shall correct for the benefit of all.
Envy661 wrote:Both Overwatch and Battleborne, I've noticed, have very large paywalls. IMHO, and I'm not saying I can't be wrong here, but I don't think either game will last in any kind of long term manner unless they go a Free 2 Play route. It's just because of the kind of game it is. It kind of requires easy access for a lot of people to try it out. These paywalls are going to make this game go the route of any moba that required a payment to purchase it ever. Dota 2 doesn't count because of the sheer number of free copies they literally gave away. I myself had about 10 of them for a time.

I'm also going to say, this opinion doesn't come from any dislike of either game. I'm honestly extremely neutral to them. But as a business model, this is about as viable long-term as... well... a paid moba.

While Overwatch is extremely popular due to the pedigree of a Blizzard game behind it, this is still an almost brand new genre, and there are a LOT of people who would be on the fence about this, but wouldn't even be able to try it for free, so they wouldn't pick it up at all. Even those who find it interesting, but aren't fangasming over it would still be apprehensive about that pricetag for a multiplayer-exclusive title that, without investing much time looking into it, on it's surface (I need to emphasize these two points for those silly douchebags who would use this statement to instigate a flame war with me for holding any kind of non-positive opinion of the game) looks like a copy of TF2.

It would not take long for the community for both games to dwindle. I would give it 12 months, and I can almost guarantee at least one, if not both of these games will be Free 2 Play.

I'm taking bets if you think I'm wrong.
First and foremost since when has purchasing a game been considered a paywall? A paywall is where certain things are locked off unless you pay for them. We hardly call having to fork out for GTA5 being forced to adhere to their paywall.

Secondly you can't paint Overwatch with a MOBA brush. It doesn't having item progression, it doesn't have lanes it doesn't have creeps or barracks to destroy it shares nothing with the concept of a MOBA. It's a class based shooter, much a kin to TF2. Just because you have skills/abilities with cooldowns doesn't make you a bloody MOBA. Dirtybomb for example is a classed based shooter with skills/abilities with cooldowns. It is also not a MOBA. Battleborn is however a MOBA hybrid of sorts.

Dota 2 shouldn't count because it has always be free upon launch. Unless I misunderstood what you were saying there, it was a little unclear. Sorry if I did.

Moving on.Currently people CAN try to for free. The open beta is live right now. You can literally sign into your battlenet account (or make one if you've not got one FOR FREE), download the game and then play it right up until it finishes on the 9th. Hell that's more than you get with most games. You can't even argue that a Multiplayer Exclusive game won't sell without people being able to try it for free because many games have sold with just that premise. I'll drop you some names to show you just how successful they can be: Killing Floor/Killing Floor 2, Rocket League, CS:GO, Left 4 Dead/Left 4 Dead 2, Warhammer: Vermintide, hell even DayZ qualifies.
Razmoudah wrote:What he means is a free trial period, of one week or two weeks, once the game actually releases. Not everyone who might be interested even knows it exists at present, and what about those who don't have free-time on the weekends? They couldn't participate even if they wanted to. That is what he is referring to.


Also, I agree that one of them will probably be forced to go free 2 play within a year of Overwatch's release, although I'm expecting that more to be Overwatch. I'm actually rather surprised that Blizzard is making it a pay-for game from the get go, as they haven't done that with Heroes of the Storm.
Free trial period on release? Why? That is basically what this is only they are taking the next few weeks between this open beta and the game release to polish everything and tweak anything that needs tweaking based on the feedback they get from the community that play the game. I honestly don't get this random demand that a game should have a freebie week on release. Why? People pay for products. That's how it works.

As for going free to play, I'll speak to both of you at once. Just because a game is multiplayer doesn't mean it has to be F2P and just because you have to pay for something doesn't mean you won't have a player base. I've played the game, it's really good and it's going to be successful. If they manage to get the esports element of it down as well it's going to do really well. I mean this is Blizzard, people are still paying subscriptions for WoW for goodness sake.

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Re: Overwatch

#34 Post by Myperson54 »

I posted in the other thread as well, but I've been playing Overwatch constantly today. It's very good.

I do think that Bastion and Roadhog are a tad overpowered, now that I've had a chance to play against and as them for a while. The rest of the cast seems pretty well-balanced though.

I think Bastion's simply got too-high DPS for his range and health. If his range was decreased, damage decreased, OR spread increased (and increased over time in sentry mode), his killing power would remain up-close but his effective invulnerability at long range would no longer be an issue.

Roadhog is annoying already for his blitzcrank-style grab, but that's not what I dislike about him. What I dislike is the fact that his damage soak is one of the highest in the game, and his heal is strong. Of course it takes a good player to position Roadhog to take advantage of that healing, but the fact that he can heal that much health, or any at all, seems to make him stronger than most tanks.

The only other thing I dislike is Mei players who use the icewall wrong, but that's hardly a complaint about the character.

Even with those two nitpicks, I'd say I'm pretty happy with this so far. It's very fast-paced and the ability to switch characters on the fly is nice. The game feels polished and I'd be willing to pay for this when I have the money.

Also, I agree with everything Nuff says here.

NINJA EDIT: I did just have the thought though, that I mostly have trouble with Roadhog playing as Zarya or D.Va - they're both short-range and have relatively low health for tanks; his shotgun is brutal up close. Conversely, if I can catch a Roadhog by surprise as McCree or "Zero Suit" D.Va, I can generally pick them off from afar before their shotgun actually becomes dangerous to me.
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Re: Overwatch

#35 Post by minime »

Myperson54 wrote: The only other thing I dislike is Mei players who use the icewall wrong, but that's hardly a complaint about the character.
Speaking of Mei, my friend would use her ice wall to stop the objective from moving, if the game mode had a moving one that is, and at the same time split the enemy team up, so we could kill half of them before the ice broke and then kill the rest.

One thing I really like about the game is that it's quick to learn and get relatively good at.

I myself got top player in my first game, ending it with a quadrakill. :flora:
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Re: Overwatch

#36 Post by Schrodinger »

The thing with both Roadhog and Bastion that makes them so powerful is that they're very independent unlike other characters that thrive or fail based on the team composition. Bastion already got hit with the nerf stick once, but they still have a lot of staying power with their regenerative abilities. Roadhog has a relatively weak Ult and primary but excels when his other powers are used effectively and stays that way at every level of play. Bastion by comparison has fewer options and suffers when caught between modes but has a decent primary and a very strong Ult to make up for it but that lack of shielding and mobility hamstring his performance at high level play unless the team supports him.

If I were to do anything it would be to rework some part of Hog's heal ability. Either make it a short burst of health and then heal over time instead of all at once or increase the cool down timer. Bastion however I can't really think of anything that would really need to be adjusted. He's kind of a newbie trap right now.
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Re: Overwatch

#37 Post by Lief »

I'm enjoying it so far. Also gotta give Blizzard kudos. It's not the easiest thing to make a support role actually fun to play, but I love playing as Mercy.

Probably my biggest complaint at the moment is that McCree's Combat Roll feels a bit underpowered. Its cooldown is too long for it to be an effective mobility boost. It's still useful, certainly, but I feel like it's not quite up to par.

Also holy [censored] good Widowmakers are ridiculous. Last match I played last night had me get killed a good 10+ times to one [censored] Widowmaker. :?

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Re: Overwatch

#38 Post by Razmoudah »

Nuff wrote:
Razmoudah wrote:What he means is a free trial period, of one week or two weeks, once the game actually releases. Not everyone who might be interested even knows it exists at present, and what about those who don't have free-time on the weekends? They couldn't participate even if they wanted to. That is what he is referring to.


Also, I agree that one of them will probably be forced to go free 2 play within a year of Overwatch's release, although I'm expecting that more to be Overwatch. I'm actually rather surprised that Blizzard is making it a pay-for game from the get go, as they haven't done that with Heroes of the Storm.
Free trial period on release? Why? That is basically what this is only they are taking the next few weeks between this open beta and the game release to polish everything and tweak anything that needs tweaking based on the feedback they get from the community that play the game. I honestly don't get this random demand that a game should have a freebie week on release. Why? People pay for products. That's how it works.

As for going free to play, I'll speak to both of you at once. Just because a game is multiplayer doesn't mean it has to be F2P and just because you have to pay for something doesn't mean you won't have a player base. I've played the game, it's really good and it's going to be successful. If they manage to get the esports element of it down as well it's going to do really well. I mean this is Blizzard, people are still paying subscriptions for WoW for goodness sake.
Oh Dear Elements, can you even hear yourself? I think I'm just going to repeat a critical portion of what I said that you quoted "Not everyone who might be interested even knows it exists at present, and what about those who don't have free-time on the weekends? They couldn't participate even if they wanted to." Now, since you seem to have comprehension problems I'll say this a bit louder Not everyone who is on the fence about this game is capable of taking advantage of the Open Beta weekend, thus a trial week or two starting at some point after release will be of benefit for getting them to buy it, particularly if their finances are such that they'd have to choose between this game and another, or they won't have a computer that meets the minimum specs until after the Open Beta ends. Were you able to get it that time?

The other valid option is to do like they did with Heroes of the Storm, where there is always a small group of characters available to play for free, with some of them being consta-free and others being on a 'trial' period, so that if you find a character that you really like, play well as, and want the extra skins (or is on a 'trial' period) you'll be encouraged to pay up, and the only reason I haven't is I haven't had the finances to do so. Overwatch has more than enough characters to make that system work for it as well. Yes, WoW has a subscription service, and has managed to avoid any variant of going F2P, but if you look around it is very easy to get a free week, or even month, all over the place so you can try the game and see if you like it or not. That subscription service is to cover the cost of developing more content for the game and keeping the servers maintained, but you can start playing without buying the full game or getting a subscription. That is a big part of what we are getting at.

I know I'm not good at arena shooter types, and FPS in general unless there are strong RPG elements (think Borderlands), but I liked the descriptions of several of the characters and wanted to see how the game played, so I signed up for the Closed Beta. I was lucky enough to get in, and then found out that my poor skills at FPS in general, and arena shooter in particular, made me a huge liability on any team I was on. If the game had a single-player mode so that I could play amongst a bunch of AI, and adjust their difficulty (emulated player skill) ratings so that I could get a chance to learn how to play the game well then I might consider it, but I can flat out tell you I never would've even considered buying it, even if it did have such a mode, if I hadn't had the chance to play it first because I know I don't have the right gaming skill set for this type of game. This is the type of reason why the game should gain a trial period a couple of months after release.

Now, if the other game he compared it to isn't an arena shooter (I'd heard of the title, but wasn't familiar with the game-play) then I could see that they wouldn't be directly competing, but it is steadily getting harder for pure multiplayer titles to directly compete with one another without offering a trial period of some sort, whether it's a gift trial you can give to a friend when you buy the game or something else the threshold for getting gamers to pay out for it is steadily climbing. Yes, Blizzard is a company that has rarely ever had a title do poorly (not that DIII has done great with those of us who still love DII, but it has found its gamers to still be a massive hit title), which makes gamers more willing to try something sight-unseen, but there are still a few of us who are unsure about spending money on a game we're not sure we'll be able to fully enjoy, even when it is being made by a company like Blizzard.
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Re: Overwatch

#39 Post by midnightblink »

Lief wrote:I'm enjoying it so far. Also gotta give Blizzard kudos. It's not the easiest thing to make a support role actually fun to play, but I love playing as Mercy.

Probably my biggest complaint at the moment is that McCree's Combat Roll feels a bit underpowered. Its cooldown is too long for it to be an effective mobility boost. It's still useful, certainly, but I feel like it's not quite up to par.

Also holy [censored] good Widowmakers are ridiculous. Last match I played last night had me get killed a good 10+ times to one [censored] Widowmaker. :?
McCree's combat roll isn't really suppose to be a movement ability, it's more about the fact you automatically reload after it, so you unload 450 damage in a tank (75 dmg per bullet times 6 bullets) and then combat role to do it all again. That's 900 damage in less than 5 seconds.

This comes back to what seems to be a common complaint: Roadhog. If there's a Roadhog that is destroying everyone, PICK MCCREE, he is the tank buster of Overwatch. If you're a support, pick Zenyatta, his Orb of Discord makes it easy for any character to kill any tank.

When it comes to Bastion, it's all about strategy. The way you die to Bastion is if you play on HIS terms, running through choke points and just generally trying to walk past him. Don't do that. Get a Tracer, Reaper or Genji to use back routes to flank him, Reinhardt and Winston can both use shields to get the whole team past him (also, Winston can just jump on top of him), Symmetra's energy orbs absolutely destroy him, Mei can use a wall to completely block him, Junkrat can bounce projectiles off walls, and Zarya actually becomes stronger by getting herself and an ally past him. Bastion has to remain stationary in order to be effective, so the best thing to do is straight up avoid him until you get the better positional advantage on him, because you ALWAYS lose in a dps battle

Edit: Also, if you can coordinate with your team as Lucio, you can use your boosted speed aura to quickly get past his line of sight before he can do much damage, but that's a little more dangerous
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Re: Overwatch

#40 Post by Nuff »

Razmoudah wrote:Oh Dear Elements, can you even hear yourself? I think I'm just going to repeat a critical portion of what I said that you quoted "Not everyone who might be interested even knows it exists at present, and what about those who don't have free-time on the weekends? They couldn't participate even if they wanted to." Now, since you seem to have comprehension problems I'll say this a bit louder Not everyone who is on the fence about this game is capable of taking advantage of the Open Beta weekend, thus a trial week or two starting at some point after release will be of benefit for getting them to buy it, particularly if their finances are such that they'd have to choose between this game and another, or they won't have a computer that meets the minimum specs until after the Open Beta ends. Were you able to get it that time?

The other valid option is to do like they did with Heroes of the Storm, where there is always a small group of characters available to play for free, with some of them being consta-free and others being on a 'trial' period, so that if you find a character that you really like, play well as, and want the extra skins (or is on a 'trial' period) you'll be encouraged to pay up, and the only reason I haven't is I haven't had the finances to do so. Overwatch has more than enough characters to make that system work for it as well. Yes, WoW has a subscription service, and has managed to avoid any variant of going F2P, but if you look around it is very easy to get a free week, or even month, all over the place so you can try the game and see if you like it or not. That subscription service is to cover the cost of developing more content for the game and keeping the servers maintained, but you can start playing without buying the full game or getting a subscription. That is a big part of what we are getting at.

I know I'm not good at arena shooter types, and FPS in general unless there are strong RPG elements (think Borderlands), but I liked the descriptions of several of the characters and wanted to see how the game played, so I signed up for the Closed Beta. I was lucky enough to get in, and then found out that my poor skills at FPS in general, and arena shooter in particular, made me a huge liability on any team I was on. If the game had a single-player mode so that I could play amongst a bunch of AI, and adjust their difficulty (emulated player skill) ratings so that I could get a chance to learn how to play the game well then I might consider it, but I can flat out tell you I never would've even considered buying it, even if it did have such a mode, if I hadn't had the chance to play it first because I know I don't have the right gaming skill set for this type of game. This is the type of reason why the game should gain a trial period a couple of months after release.

Now, if the other game he compared it to isn't an arena shooter (I'd heard of the title, but wasn't familiar with the game-play) then I could see that they wouldn't be directly competing, but it is steadily getting harder for pure multiplayer titles to directly compete with one another without offering a trial period of some sort, whether it's a gift trial you can give to a friend when you buy the game or something else the threshold for getting gamers to pay out for it is steadily climbing. Yes, Blizzard is a company that has rarely ever had a title do poorly (not that DIII has done great with those of us who still love DII, but it has found its gamers to still be a massive hit title), which makes gamers more willing to try something sight-unseen, but there are still a few of us who are unsure about spending money on a game we're not sure we'll be able to fully enjoy, even when it is being made by a company like Blizzard.

Wow you are incredibly rude when you have no foot to stand on concerning your arguments. For the record posting things multiple times and in big EDGY lettering does not magically remove all the flaws from the statement. I will enlighten you by showing you all these flaws.
Razmoudah wrote:Not everyone who might be interested even knows it exists at present
Lets look at this bit first. That may be true but only in a tiny and insignificant way because Blizzard have been promoting this game heavily, it's been covered by all the major gaming outlets repeatedly, it's been advertised on Twitch, the original trailer has 6.6 million views. If there are people who don't know about Overwatch out there they are just not that into video games or live under a rock and those people you cannot get the attention of no matter what you do. A open beta or a first week trial at release wouldn't change that because how would they go to your proposed trial if they didn't even know that game existed?

and now
Razmoudah wrote:and what about those who don't have free-time on the weekends? They couldn't participate even if they wanted to
I already explained that the open beta is not just a weekend beta. It's been running a few days already thus if you have troubles playing something for a couple of hours at the weekend you could still have played the open beta. Besides the chances of someone not having any free time at the weekend is extremely low and the amount of people this would effect is so small it's insignificant once again.

The important bit apparently because you made it bigger despite just repeating yourself for the first half of the sentence
Razmoudah wrote:Not everyone who is on the fence about this game is capable of taking advantage of the Open Beta weekend, thus a trial week or two starting at some point after release will be of benefit for getting them to buy it, particularly if their finances are such that they'd have to choose between this game and another, or they won't have a computer that meets the minimum specs until after the Open Beta ends
All your arguments hinge on them not being able to play this open beta which they should be able to. Though we can borrow some of your flawless logic to shoot down your own argument here because if they can't play the game at this particular time for whatever reason what is to say they could play the game with this magically fix every problem in the world trial you propose? Surely you'd have just as many people unable to play as you have with this beta... so it fixes nothing at all. As for not meeting minimum specs until after the beat ends this is another insignificant amount of people I mean honestly who is going to not have a computer that can play the game 2-3 weeks before release but will do within the first week of release to be able to play the magically trial? I'll tell you how many: very, very, very,very few people.

---

to address this comment
Razmoudah wrote:The other valid option is to do like they did with Heroes of the Storm, where there is always a small group of characters available to play for free, with some of them being consta-free and others being on a 'trial' period, so that if you find a character that you really like, play well as, and want the extra skins (or is on a 'trial' period) you'll be encouraged to pay up, and the only reason I haven't is I haven't had the finances to do so
This is in no way a valid option. Overwatch is a completely different game to HotS. One of the largest and most important aspects of the game is you can switch hero during a game. You do this to do one last big push, or to counter their line up that they've switched to or because you need that extra turret to make sure they can't break your defence line. It's a huge part of the evolving tactical flow of the game and if you were to restrict players to only a handful of heroes is would cripple the F2P players compared to those who have paid for the content. Blizzard did not want to do this, the community did not want them to do this. They didn't want to go the full TF2 hats route either to sustain their game. As a company they invested a lot of money into creating the game and people buying it is how they recoup that investment and how they make a profit. This is how products work. I don't see how you being too poor should force a developer to make a game to suit your financial needs and completely compromise a huge part of their games core gameplay.
Razmoudah wrote:If the game had a single-player mode so that I could play amongst a bunch of AI, and adjust their difficulty (emulated player skill) ratings so that I could get a chance to learn how to play the game well then I might consider it, but I can flat out tell you I never would've even considered buying it, even if it did have such a mode, if I hadn't had the chance to play it first because I know I don't have the right gaming skill set for this type of game. This is the type of reason why the game should gain a trial period a couple of months after release.
I wasn't in any of the earlier closed betas so I don't know if some of the game was missing but the latests closed (and of course open) beta had both a tutorial and the option to play against AI with options to set their difficulty. Actually a quick look showed me that at least from round 2 of the closed beta play vs AI was in the game. So you either missed it or are straight up lying. You go on to say how you need to be able to play it to see if you are any good at that type of game. Fair enough. That's what the open beta, which is on right now, is for. You can play it right now and find this out.

and lastly
Razmoudah wrote:Now, if the other game he compared it to isn't an arena shooter (I'd heard of the title, but wasn't familiar with the game-play) then I could see that they wouldn't be directly competing, but it is steadily getting harder for pure multiplayer titles to directly compete with one another without offering a trial period of some sort, whether it's a gift trial you can give to a friend when you buy the game or something else the threshold for getting gamers to pay out for it is steadily climbing. Yes, Blizzard is a company that has rarely ever had a title do poorly (not that DIII has done great with those of us who still love DII, but it has found its gamers to still be a massive hit title), which makes gamers more willing to try something sight-unseen, but there are still a few of us who are unsure about spending money on a game we're not sure we'll be able to fully enjoy, even when it is being made by a company like Blizzard.
It's not harder for pure multiplayer games than it is for pure single player games. And single player games almost never give a free trial to their games. The rest is just the same looped argument about needing a trial to test the game. There is a trial. It's the open beta.

---

Well I think we are done here. Feel free to reply I'll be interested to see if you can bring anything besides "I want the trial at a different date not now! Waaaaaah!" to the table.

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Re: Overwatch

#41 Post by Lief »

midnightblink wrote:
Lief wrote:I'm enjoying it so far. Also gotta give Blizzard kudos. It's not the easiest thing to make a support role actually fun to play, but I love playing as Mercy.

Probably my biggest complaint at the moment is that McCree's Combat Roll feels a bit underpowered. Its cooldown is too long for it to be an effective mobility boost. It's still useful, certainly, but I feel like it's not quite up to par.

Also holy [censored] good Widowmakers are ridiculous. Last match I played last night had me get killed a good 10+ times to one [censored] Widowmaker. :?
McCree's combat roll isn't really suppose to be a movement ability, it's more about the fact you automatically reload after it, so you unload 450 damage in a tank (75 dmg per bullet times 6 bullets) and then combat role to do it all again. That's 900 damage in less than 5 seconds.
...I did not know that.

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Re: Overwatch

#42 Post by anonfox123 »

Just a little bit of play today and already I feel that even if it goes free to play later, I'd be willing to pay right out the gate. Been having the most fun as D.Va, she's just the right mix of tankiness and mobility for me, and pulling off TPK's with the way that the boosters and self-destruct interact is enormously satisfying.

I agree with other points though, sometimes I'll have a Roadhog on the brink of death, then he turns a corner, I follow, and he might has well have respawned with how much health he has back. Bastion also has way too much DPS, and with no spy-like character to instagib turrets, one bastion at every chokepoint turns every defense match into a duck hunt game. Only, with less dogs laughing at you.
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Re: Overwatch

#43 Post by midnightblink »

anonfox123 wrote:Just a little bit of play today and already I feel that even if it goes free to play later, I'd be willing to pay right out the gate. Been having the most fun as D.Va, she's just the right mix of tankiness and mobility for me, and pulling off TPK's with the way that the boosters and self-destruct interact is enormously satisfying.

I agree with other points though, sometimes I'll have a Roadhog on the brink of death, then he turns a corner, I follow, and he might has well have respawned with how much health he has back. Bastion also has way too much DPS, and with no spy-like character to instagib turrets, one bastion at every chokepoint turns every defense match into a duck hunt game. Only, with less dogs laughing at you.
I agree that 300 health in about 2 seconds is probably too much (maybe if they brought it down to 200 or 250), but I still don't have much problems with either characters. I think I can count the amount of times I've died from a Bastion on both my hands, and I'm level 13 on the game. Those two are basically the LOL Master Yi of the game, characters that will destroy people who are new to the game and don't know how to play against them, Bastion in particular actually has a lot of counters (if you look at my previous post, in which I also talk about Roadhog). Basically, the "Spies" of Overwatch are the high damage flanking characters: Reaper, Genji, and Tracer. They all have a pretty easy time of getting in the back line (Reaper with Wraith Form and teleports, Genji with wall climbs, double jumps, and a dash, and Tracer with 3 dashes) and are able to destroy almost any character from behind when surprising them, Reaper in particular can kill Bastion in 2 or 3 shots. It's all about picking to counter the other team's comp and recognizing both your team's and the other team's strengths and weaknesses in order to play off of.
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Myperson54
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Re: Overwatch

#44 Post by Myperson54 »

After having played some more, I think Schro is right, Bastion's only strong if you walk into his setups.

I know this because I got 6 people to play Bastion and we lost. It was a good time though. 6 Bastions in turret mode right out the gate.
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Re: Overwatch

#45 Post by anonfox123 »

Myperson54 wrote:After having played some more, I think Schro is right, Bastion's only strong if you walk into his setups.

I know this because I got 6 people to play Bastion and we lost. It was a good time though. 6 Bastions in turret mode right out the gate.
And what if said setup is in an unreachable corner of the capture area that nothing can actually get behind because there is no more "behind" to be had? Maybe I'm remembering wrong but we had a decent hanzo and he couldn't do anything about this one bastion. It was cheap to the point that not even the bastion's teammates were giving him those vote/points at the end.
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