The Reason Consoles Should Exist

[Akira110]

I'm making this topic, because I'm frankly sick and tired of all this crap. All this hatred that's going around. And I already know that there are going to be people that will ignore the content of this post and just post based on the topic title. But that's fine, I won't waste my time on those who refuse to learn.

Now... I don't have the exact number of people that have even a low-end gaming PC world wide, but I'm going to go ahead and be nice and say 400 million. Alright, that's a good number, right? Wrong.

Currently the Global hardware totals are...

Wii U: 8.2 Million
XBox One: 10.1 Million
PS4: 17.3 Million
3DS: 48.5 Million
PS Vita: 9.3 Million

That's less 93.4 million people with a CURRENT gen system. Since games are being sold still for the XBox 360 and the PS3...
The XBox 360 has shipped 80 million units.
And the PS3 has shipped 80 million units.

Assuming that every single one of those were sold(Which by the way MOST of them were) that would bring up the total for people who play video games on consoles to 253.4 million.

Now what most people assume is that if all of these consoles suddenly go, people are suddenly going to get the urge, money and knowledge to go build a gaming PC that can play their old favorites. This isn't exactly true, anyone with a degree in psychology will tell you this. You ARE going to shrink the userbase for almost every franchise.

This brings me to my next point. The fallacy of where if consoles were to go away, video games would become better and higher quality. Note how I called it a fallacy, this is because when you shrink the userbase, you cut into the losses of the company or corporation that are making these games. And a triple A developer is going to respond by putting less effort into their games resulting in lower quality and accelerating the video game crash that's already in the foreseeable future. You're not going to get less games like Assassin's Creed Unity, you're going to get more, because they're quick cash-ins that sell by name recognition alone.

Now you're probably here wondering, "How do you know this for sure?" When has a company NOT tried to cut corners in order to make a higher profit? It's simple pattern recognition and basic economics.

tl;dr: Consoles don't exist for reasons of competition, consoles exist to expand the userbase of a franchise. If you shrink the userbase, you cut into the profits of a company. When you cut into profits, they start putting less work, effort and money into their product, degrading the quality.

Note: I'm not saying PC gaming is bad, nor am I saying console gaming is bad. I'm defending the existence of consoles using economics and psychology.

[Lief]

Producers pay Developers to make games. Developers make the games. The devs don't need to worry about profits because the producers have to pay them either way. A lot of the issues with current games are due to either [censored] time constraints that the producers put on the devs, or the devs just being lazy [censored].

One reason some people want consoles to disappear is because it will get rid of all the [censored] PC ports. Which it will. If there aren't consoles for the games to be made on, they'll be made for the PC. Not ported from another system. It might degrade the overall quality of the games, but at least they'd have /actual/ options, and maybe almost-functioning PC controls!

I honestly have no problems with consoles existing. I own an Xbox 360 (Or did, I guess it's kind of been permanently borrowed.) and PS2. I'd like to get my hands on a PS3 and PS4, as well as basically all the handhelds on the market currently. My only issue with consoles is that it gives developers another excuse to be lazy and make [censored] ports of games. Why can't the develop the game for the PC and port it to the consoles? I imagine that would be easier!

EDIT: Words.

[Yash]

The devs don't need to worry about profits because the producers have to pay them either way. A lot of the issues with current

[citation needed]

[InceptionBwaaa]

Not to mention the fact that console gaming and PC gaming have their different pros and cons that play to people's differing preferences, and also tie fact that IT DOESN'T [censored] MATTER. Someone should be allowed to play console if they want, and being hated on for that only proves that you, the hater, have nothing better to do and no conscience to dictate that oppression is WRONG. I mean, [censored]. It's like anti-furries and anti-bronies all over again. You know what? Chew on this for a while, dogs.

Console and PC gaming have no measurable play value. Neither are they comparable, so, hell, let's just call them equal and stop bickering.

[Lief]

The devs don't need to worry about profits because the producers have to pay them either way. A lot of the issues with current

[citation needed]

You could've at least cut it properly for a quote, jeez. I'm too lazy to back up my claims, which makes me a bad debater I know. Devs won't get paid for the "unauthorized" overtime they tend to need to do with the stupid-short deadlines, but they can't just not be paid at all. That's illegal.

EDIT: The producers also can't not pay the developer company if profits on a game are crap. Especially since in most cases they'd be paying before development started, and assuming there are royalties they'd be under contract.

[Insomniac]

One reason some people want consoles to disappear is because it will get rid of all the [censored] PC ports. Which it will. If there aren't consoles for the games to be made on, they'll be made for the PC. Not ported from another system. It might degrade the overall quality of the games, but at least they'd have /actual/ options, and maybe almost-functioning PC controls!

This statement is a logical fallacy. The games are developed on PCs in the first place. Even if they were developed for consoles and ported to PC after the console release and not a simultaneous release (and do note, the Assassin's Creed games are released on console and PC at the same time, so the PC version isn't a port), the games are made ON PCs in the first place, so there is no excuse for the PC version being inferior. There is literally no excuse.

[judah4]

One reason some people want consoles to disappear is because it will get rid of all the [censored] PC ports. Which it will. If there aren't consoles for the games to be made on, they'll be made for the PC. Not ported from another system. It might degrade the overall quality of the games, but at least they'd have /actual/ options, and maybe almost-functioning PC controls!

This statement is a logical fallacy. The games are developed on PCs in the first place. Even if they were developed for consoles and ported to PC after the console release and not a simultaneous release (and do note, the Assassin's Creed games are released on console and PC at the same time, so the PC version isn't a port), the games are made ON PCs in the first place, so there is no excuse for the PC version being inferior. There is literally no excuse.

Just because they where developed on a computer does not mean they can automatically run on it even if that is usually the case. This has to do with specific parts of the program made for the consoles in mind that use different runtimes or hardware architecture(ps3) Probably the easiest example would be handheld or mobile development. Mobile usual loads the app in a virtual machine of the device the developer is targetting. Usual Console development is on suped up development console with extra processing power and ram for debugging.

To port a game to another platform is more than just simply clicking a few buttons and if done wrong can lead to performance issues not found on other systems

[Insomniac]

One reason some people want consoles to disappear is because it will get rid of all the [censored] PC ports. Which it will. If there aren't consoles for the games to be made on, they'll be made for the PC. Not ported from another system. It might degrade the overall quality of the games, but at least they'd have /actual/ options, and maybe almost-functioning PC controls!

This statement is a logical fallacy. The games are developed on PCs in the first place. Even if they were developed for consoles and ported to PC after the console release and not a simultaneous release (and do note, the Assassin's Creed games are released on console and PC at the same time, so the PC version isn't a port), the games are made ON PCs in the first place, so there is no excuse for the PC version being inferior. There is literally no excuse.

Just because they where developed on a computer does not mean they can automatically run on it even if that is usually the case. This has to do with specific parts of the program made for the consoles in mind that use different runtimes or hardware architecture(ps3) Probably the easiest example would be handheld or mobile development. Mobile usual loads the app in a virtual machine of the device the developer is targetting. Usual Console development is on suped up development console with extra processing power and ram for debugging.

To port a game to another platform is more than just simply clicking a few buttons and if done wrong can lead to performance issues not found on other systems

That still doesn't explain why games developed for simultaneous console and PC release, such as the Assassin's Creed series, and from what I hear Ubisoft games in general, seem to be buggier and such on PC than on Console. What I'm getting at is, if a game is developed with a PC release in mind from the start, there's no excuse.

[Damien203]

I'm with Akira.
Consoles should exist for the mere reason of being profitable, that is the only reason why the prods, devs,... all people involved in gaming industry must keep them.
Specially in Europe, since the profit is bigger (because in the USA a game is 60$, but here is 60euros=71.78$).

Consoles don't exist for reasons of competition, consoles exist to expand the userbase of a franchise.
When you cut into profits, they start putting less work making these games.

That lack of quality is bonded to the lack of money (logical), and as said: less users, less money.

What I'm getting at is, if a game is developed with a PC release in mind from the start, there's no excuse.

Excuse: It is more profitable. This is the most stupid one, and yet the best.

if consoles were to go away, video games would become better and higher quality.

Higher quality: more than obvious, better: No ("they're quick cash-ins that sell by name alone").

Devs won't get paid for the "unauthorized" overtime they tend to need to do with the stupid-short deadlines

Those deadlines, were meant to make the best game possible in the least time possible: "Assassin's Creed Unity".
What leads me to the next point: Why we say that a game is good or not? The answer: It's story!
Games like COD were good, until MW2. Where the multi was more important than the story, and just like Unity, they are sold by name alone. (We'll come back to this later).
Does this means that all games without story are bad?, of course not. Minecraft, Terraria, Payday... actual games with little or no story that are entertaining. And some oldies too: Point Blank, Crash Bash, Crazy Taxi...
But like AC franchise, or COD they've become bad, because they didn't put much effort on their story (even if they were meant to have a good one).
The story in games is a very important factor, so much that we can overlook the lack of graphics, for example: Dust an Elysian Tail, Shovel Knight (8 bit), Phoenix Wright...
But nowadays, being online is more important. And what I fear, is the end of games with story.
Gamers love to say that games are another expression of the inner self, great artwork can be seen on your own TV, or PC. But in my opinion, all that is hollow, if the only thing that matters is going all around the map with the only objective of being the MVP.

Now, lets go back to the "consoles going away". If we think about it the first thing we draw is: unemployed, why?
Simple, hundreds if not thousands of people are developing games right now. So if console devs don't have money to work, they don't work.
So, will they go to Pc gaming companies? Yes, but most of them won't. The increase of non-working people would cost the respective country government, a lot of money in subventions. Increasing, as is logical, the taxes. Causing a b-load of angry people complaining.
Also, some game companies bonded to consoles have buisness in the stock market, it's disappearance will cost them millions, that means more unemployed, great debts that no one knows how to pay...
Plus, the disappearance of consoles will make the PC the biggets gamming platform, because they aren't anymore. I'm not getting any deeper about this, because theories are yet to be proven.
My pesonal opinion: I want consoles to stay, because they've been there since my childhood. This would sound ridiculous, but I've grown fond of them, even though I do not condone the bleeding they do to their so beloved players(not sure if this expresion is grammatically correct).

so, hell, let's just call them equal and stop bickering.

That is a good idea, if it wasn't for human's natural ability to make dumb differences between things.

I believe these arguments are enough to speak my mind. If there is anything I've wrote wrong or didn't expressed as good as I thought, keep posting, this topic can have a lot more of argumentation.

[Chris]

What leads me to the next point: Why we say that a game is good or not? The answer: It's story!

A game is good or not depending if it's enjoyable to play. A game doesn't need a good story to be enjoyable to play, and a good story won't save a game that's not enjoyable to play (unless the story is so good that you're willing to suffer through poor gameplay, though at that point it'd be better off as a book or movie).

Outside of RPGs, most good games of old (talking 80s and 90s here) had a bare minimum of story, where the story was a throwaway blurb in the manual or a paragraph on the arcade cabinet. That's pretty much why games like Half-Life and System Shock 2 are so noteworthy, because those were among the first (again, outside of RPGs) to integrate an actual story with good gameplay. But we still have many classics from that era when story was next to nil.


As for the topic of the thread, I'll be among the first to say the PC is my system of choice because it's so versatile and convenient for me (I have a mouse and keyboard for games that work best with them, and I can plug in a controller for games that work best with it; and thanks to emulation, I can play games from other systems too). However, I'd never look down on or belittle someone just because the prefer consoles. When I was younger, I was a huge Nintendo fanboy, and had great fun with the NES, SNES (and Genesis, I'll admit now), and N64. I was happy with the GameCube too, although by that time I wasn't playing on consoles much anymore.

My biggest gripe with consoles is that developers focus so much on it, and then release half-baked PC versions as scraps for their fans that prefer the PC. I'm okay even when games are a port from the console, but please, make the port properly. Show proper button prompts (Dark Souls' port being infamous for showing XBox controller buttons for all input even when you're playing with a mouse and keyboard, and there's other games like Skyrim that'll show the wrong keys if you've rebound them), make proper use of the input devices the game uses (so many game UIs are poorly designed for mouse interaction, if the UI responds to the mouse at all, despite the mouse being a UI's primary interaction device on PC), don't place artificial limitations (locking to sub-standard framerates and resolutions; I know programming well enough to know it takes very little effort to avoid these limitations in most games). Have the port stand on its own merits... pretend the console version didn't exist, is the PC version something you'd proudly attach your name to? And if you're not willing to make a good PC version, then give the job to someone who will.

This goes for the reverse as well. Console gamers don't deserve to have cruddy ports of PC titles, or cruddy ports of other consoles' games for that matter. It's just that bad console->PC ports happen more often than bad PC->console ports these days.

[Damien203]

A game doesn't need a good story to be enjoyable to play

I said that games without story doesn't mean they are bad. I even mentioned some.
I was exposing the AC Unity case, a game that has a bad story and nor the graphics, neither the gameplay makes it better.
Like you said, an enjoyable game is more than enough to make it good.

release half-baked PC versions as scraps for their fans

A couldn't agree more.

[SirSlaughter]

To argue the "consoles sold" point.
http://www.theverge.com/2013/10/30/5045 ... rent-users
(thanks Kaz for reminding me of this argument I shall being up)


Just because the consoles were sold, this does not mean that they are in current operation and have people using them. I myself have gone through at least 7 360s and I currently own 3 with a 4th that I have yet to determine if it is functional. From there you also have to think about the used market as well. How many of those units sold are being recycled into other homes with 1 or more users. So those numbers really need to be thought out more.

This goes with all the consoles, PS3 (White light), WiiU (Critical update failure), PS4 (USB ports), Xbox one (update failure and HDD), and the list goes on and on but I am certain you get my point.

I don't exactly wish for consoles to be gone entirely (I would be out of the job if they were gone) but I would like devs to do PC justice.

I have played and seen too many horrid ports to not say something.

Dark Souls (1)
Saints Row (2 I think it was)
Final Fantasy (All of them than were released on PC recently)
old GTA remakes (Oh god...the horror)
And many others (mostly EA games like the NFS games and stuff)


Get rid of [censored] console to PC ports and maybe people will finally be happy. Put some [censored] work into your game you tools. Don't give me those games I mentioned above. Give me the next Bioshock Infinite, give me the next Warhammer 40K: Space Marine, Give me the next Supreme Commander. Something that plays like it should play if it was on PC. Proper, no horrible control issues, no damned glitches or upscaled [censored] 720P to 1080P fake blurry hairy ball sack resolutions.

(I had to retype this damned thing more than I would like to admit)

[HeckobA]

...sick and tired of all this crap. All this hatred that's going around.
...

*some console sales figures*

*some arguments*

tl;dr: Consoles don't exist for reasons of competition, consoles exist to expand the userbase of a franchise. If you shrink the userbase, you cut into the profits of a company. When you cut into profits, they start putting less work, effort and money into their product, degrading the quality.

Note: I'm not saying PC gaming is bad, nor am I saying console gaming is bad. I'm defending the existence of consoles using economics and psychology.

My take on it is consoles exist and should exist because there's a market for them and the people who sell them want to make money. That's about it.

I wouldn't make a console to expand the userbase of the companies who use my console to run their games. I make it to sell my consoles. I'm very glad when people make good games for my console and might encourage this in some way, so as to sell more of my console.

Making some wild claims/speculations about the effects of loss of consoles on game quality doesn't really show me why consoles should exist.

Thank you for the note at the end, disclaimers like those are nice... but I don't really feel the need to defend their existence. I don't see this hatred you mentioned, really. (Yes, PC Master Race and all that but I'm just joking when I say that, I still love playing on consoles and I definitely don't hate them, even if it isn't worth it for me to buy one)
Maybe people are saying that consoles are on the way out, to be replaced with PC's with a similar function but improved functionality and maybe time will prove them right - or wrong. Quite possibly PC's will become more prominent, though maybe not. Who knows and frankly, why care? What will happen, will happen.

[Akira110]

...sick and tired of all this crap. All this hatred that's going around.
...

*some console sales figures*

*some arguments*

tl;dr: Consoles don't exist for reasons of competition, consoles exist to expand the userbase of a franchise. If you shrink the userbase, you cut into the profits of a company. When you cut into profits, they start putting less work, effort and money into their product, degrading the quality.

Note: I'm not saying PC gaming is bad, nor am I saying console gaming is bad. I'm defending the existence of consoles using economics and psychology.

My take on it is consoles exist and should exist because there's a market for them and the people who sell them want to make money. That's about it.

I wouldn't make a console to expand the userbase of the companies who use my console to run their games. I make it to sell my consoles. I'm very glad when people make good games for my console and might encourage this in some way, so as to sell more of my console.

Making some wild claims/speculations about the effects of loss of consoles on game quality doesn't really show me why consoles should exist.

Thank you for the note at the end, disclaimers like those are nice... but I don't really feel the need to defend their existence. I don't see this hatred you mentioned, really. (Yes, PC Master Race and all that but I'm just joking when I say that, I still love playing on consoles and I definitely don't hate them, even if it isn't worth it for me to buy one)
Maybe people are saying that consoles are on the way out, to be replaced with PC's with a similar function but improved functionality and maybe time will prove them right - or wrong. Quite possibly PC's will become more prominent, though maybe not. Who knows and frankly, why care? What will happen, will happen.

We're already on our way to a video game crash. It won't be as severe as it was in 83, because indie developers will be there to pick up the pieces as well as Niche developers that make EXCELLENT games.

My point is that not everyone has the knowledge or resources to build a gaming rig. So if consoles go, you're going to reduce the userbase. How much? I cannot say for sure.

[Envy661]

#PCmasterrace

/thread