So why DO people hate Steam?

[Envy661]

It's not something I really see as "Common", but it is something I notice on occasion while forum browsing. I will visit a site like IGN, GameFAQ, or a game's official forums, and there will always be at least one person in the thread I am looking at to resolve an issue I am having, who simply detests steam with a passion, saying things like "[censored] Steam", or "[censored] you for liking Steam", or "Steam is evil". That sort of thing.

Here is my take on this:
Steam offers thousands of games for sale at your fingertips from one source.
Steam offers constant discounts on games.
Games can be put onto steam to support Valve's Anti-Cheat system, which is actually one of the more effective anti-cheat serviced out there.
Steam's overlay doesn't suck.
Valve isn't forcing Steam down your throat and is not single-publisher exclusive like Origin and uPlay.

Now sure, there are sites like GOG or Humblebundle that do the first two. And while most HumbleBundle products can be redeemed on Steam, HumbleBundle also offers direct links to the games for download. GOG doesn't do Steam, at all. They don't touch Steam with a 10-foot pole, so if you get a game on GOG and have Steam, if you want to make your friends jelly with your new title, you need to add it manually as a non-steam game.

I'm just not seeing the hate.
I've heard arguments like "Oh, well, Steam is DRM" and that simply isn't true. You don't need to be online to use Steam. In fact, as long as you've at least been online with Steam once, you can pretty much use it to your heart's content in offline mode, until you want to go online for something, and then you need to re-enter your credentials. You can play probably 90% of your Steam Library offline. In fact, there is only a select few games through publishers like Ubisoft which require you to be online. Steam is not an always online service, and DRM is on a game-to-game basis. Steam doesn't have a phishing scheme in it's ToS like Origin did. Steam sometimes offers games for free. There are a few games on Steam which still have a high price, and aren't wise to get through Steam, such as CoD: Black Ops 2, but that is dev/publisher-based, and not Steam's decision.

So really, why do people hate Steam? I just honestly can not think of a good reason. The only reasons I CAN actually think of are just nit-picky and inessential, such as the Steam Client running too slowly, or the inability to open new tabs in the client. Also, the 'Step 1: Installing DirectX' gets on my nerves when first starting a game, because you go through it with EVERY SINGLE GAME. But those are nowhere near reasons enough to hate the free marketplace for games that is Steam. In certainly beats going to somewhere like Gamestop and choosing between their selection of 2 PC games: World or Warcraft or an outdated copy of EVE Online. There are other services to get games out there, so Steam is by no means monopolizing the market. Also, with Steam Greenlight, Steam is helping indie developers by putting nearly unknown companies on the market, chosen by the users themselves. I will admit that the Steam Workshop is a little redundant, but to someone with zero modding experience whatsoever, it's a convenient and useful tool.

So does anyone here hate Steam? Do you know why others dislike it? I should also state that people who seem to be big Steam Haters seem to lean towards console gaming. Could jealousy be a factor?

[Amazing Mr. X]

So why DO people hate Steam?

Because their customer service is nonexistent, they basically don't allow refunds, their Steam Cloud system can be as bad as Uplay's at times, and if you have more than one account using the same computer for any reason you run into all sorts of different problems with their licensing and download managers.

Oh, and Steam In-Home Streaming doesn't work very well, especially on WiFi.

It's still better than Origin though, because you can at least reliably add CD keys to your library without having to contact their technical support. Not to mention it also has a chat system that actually notifies you when people message you, unlike Uplay where you have to manually check. So, yeah, it's not a good program by any means, or a reliable service for that matter, but it never completely blows up in my face like the competitors so I tend to like it anyway.

[Ketzal]

Because their customer service is nonexistent, they basically don't allow refunds, their Steam Cloud system can be as bad as Uplay's at times, and if you have more than one account using the same computer for any reason you run into all sorts of different problems with their licensing and download managers.

You must have some bad luck with using Steam or something, because neither my brother nor I have ever had trouble with any of the features you listed.

He has to use two accounts because of a fiasco with TF2, but he hasn't had any issues downloading new games or updates.

The Steam Cloud has always synced fine, and I use two different computers for the same account.

Can't say anything about the refund policies, though. Pardon if I'm misreading your post, just comparing experiences based off what I'm interpreting here

[Amazing Mr. X]

You must have some bad luck with using Steam or something, because neither my brother nor I have ever had trouble with any of the features you listed.

He has to use two accounts because of a fiasco with TF2, but he hasn't had any issues downloading new games or updates.

The Steam Cloud has always synced fine, and I use two different computers for the same account.

Can't say anything about the refund policies, though. Pardon if I'm misreading your post, just comparing experiences based off what I'm interpreting here

Oh, they're not all issues particular to me, nor are very many of them all that current really.

My father had issues with The Witcher 2 overloading the Steam Cloud and not allowing the two to sync correctly. I've also had problems in the past with the data on the Steam Cloud either getting lost or corrupted somehow, but it's usually not a big deal. I only mention these issues because they're common complaints people have with Uplay, and Steam really isn't all that different. Personally, I've never had an issue with the cloud but I know a lot of people have.

The return policy is a similar thing really. Origin has a well publicized 24 hour no questions asked return policy they call the "Great Game Guarantee". This is only important because Steam will not officially grant a return for any reason save special circumstances. It's one of the few things EA has going for them there, and a lot of the people that prefer Origin will site this feature as a main reason to choose it over Steam.

The multiple accounts thing is hit or miss but, in my past experiences, Steam doesn't handle DLC in any sort of elegant way. If you have two people with the same game and different DLC logging in on the same computer, Steam will completely delete the DLC you don't own when you log in. Then, when the other account logs in, they'll need to download the DLC again. That's fine if you don't have data caps, bandwidth issues, or care about spending the time waiting for the DLC to download before you can play. However, otherwise it's a complete pain. I know why they do it, and I understand why that won't change that system, but it's not a good choice as it alienates a lot of the most budget conscious gamers that would need to share a rig with another in order to play or buy games. In fact, the problems with the logistics of sharing computers, accounts, or games in Steam are some of the biggest reasons why they have not overshadowed consoles already. It's also essentially why there's so little excitement among console gamers about Steam OS or the Steam Machines, essentially they represent the same set of problems all those Xbox One policies from last year's E3 sparked panic and consumer exodus over.

Now, since I've probably insulted all of my Steam using brethren in a 400 mile radius of Planet Earth, I'm going to address a few more points in the OP.

Because why not?

Games can be put onto steam to support Valve's Anti-Cheat system, which is actually one of the more effective anti-cheat serviced out there.

It's effective because it's way too strong. Instead of trying to positively identify actual cheats, it just indiscriminately bans players that modify VAC enabled games in ways they don't directly approve of. This can be as simple as the overlay for a program like MSI Afterburner or as complex as a mod that changes the graphics of the game.

VAC bans are harsh, permanent, and have long lasting effects on your account.

Valve isn't forcing Steam down your throat and is not single-publisher exclusive like Origin and uPlay.

... I've heard arguments like "Oh, well, Steam is DRM" and that simply isn't true.

There's a lot wrong with those statements, but I'll try to keep my criticism brief and to the point.

Make no mistake Steam is DRM software, and it is being forced down your throat. The difference with Steam is that, as a product, it has enough strong features going for it that you don't mind or even prefer having the system shoved down your throat. Though, that doesn't change what it is or what it does.

Valve designed Steam as a DRM system that ties games to accounts as digital services. Your games are subscriptions for the Steam Service, which is why Valve doesn't have to treat them like normal products and offer a return policy, nor support, nor even guarantee that you'll be able to access those games forever. If you buy a Steam game on a disc you'll need a computer with an internet connection to install it, and then you'll need a Steam Account to tie that disc into before you can copy any files to your machine using the installer. Interestingly, if you start a Steam Installer from a disc the normal way, it won't even install the game from the disc, it will opt to automatically use your internet connection instead unless you use a very specific option in the Steam Client to install the game. This is true of all games sold exclusively on Steam, physical copies or no, they all require first time internet access to install the game. Beyond that, Steam will only allow you to play them offline if it can verify your account, which only works if you're the last account to sign in on that computer, or if Steam doesn't update, or if you don't sign out without exiting, or if some other weirdness happens. In which case, Steam will need you to log in again to verify your account before you can use offline mode.

If none of that sounds like it's being forced down your throat, then I ask you to question what happens to people that buy single player steam games like Fallout New Vegas on a disc when they live in an area with spotty, limited, or non existent internet. Is it fair to those people that they could potentially never be able to play their completely legitimately purchased completely single-player game that otherwise would have worked flawlessly on an Xbox 360?

As for your jab at Uplay and Origin, that just isn't true. you can buy plenty of games from other publishers on both services. So, if you want to buy Watch_Dogs on Origin or Battlefield 4 on Uplay you're free to go where your money takes you. There's literally plenty to choose from, and the occasional sales from both. Does Steam generally have the best pricing? Yes, and Valve's service is generally the better of the three, but that doesn't mean their competitors don't offer a good selection of games from other publishers.

Steam doesn't have a phishing scheme in it's ToS like Origin did.

Alright, I'm seriously not a fan of Origin, but it is absolutely frightening how fast EA backpedaled from that initial TOS once people started complaining about it. EA's Origin TOS was rewritten in response to the outcry, and now their official Origin Download page even has a short FAQ tied directly to it which states the following about their information collection policies:

What types of data does EA collect through Origin?

There are two types of information that are always collected through Origin:

(1) System interaction data essential to the continued operation of Origin. This includes anonymous crash reports (including the time and approximate location of the crash); hardware specification data (information about your device’s CPU, graphics card, display, memory, browser, and operating system); and other functional details (successful installs, unsuccessful game downloads, game launch data, errors, and lost network connections). MAC and IP addresses are collected as well, but obfuscated and hashed to protect your anonymity. All of this data is used to improve Origin’s performance, identify bugs, and enhance your overall experience.

(2) Information that you directly provide to Origin. This includes Origin preferences, online feature usage, purchase information, and account information—which is used only to allow specific services to work. For example, Origin needs to collect and verify your personal information in order to process a game purchase.

For more information about EA’s collection, storage, and use of consumer information, please read EA’s Privacy Policy.

Yes, they even include a direct link to their Privacy Policy right there in the FAQ, so if you don't believe them you can read it yourself.

As for what's stated here, it's actually considerably less than what Steam will usually take from you. So I think it's safe to say they've reversed their initial policy.

Steam sometimes offers games for free.

They're not the only ones. Origin regularly gives away games for free as part of their "On The House" program. Last month they gave away Plants vs Zombies and Battlefield 3, this month it's Peggle.

GOG doesn't do Steam, at all.

Fun Fact, GOG is owned by CD Projekt RED.

These guys hate DRM, and designed GOG so that games could be legally sold and played without it.

Steam is DRM, which is why they don't sell Steam Only or Steam Enabled titles on GOG.

Steam's overlay doesn't suck.

It does if you use any of the applications on this list.

In fact, all of Steam sucks if you use any of the applications on this other list too.

My point is that, as with all things, your mileage may vary. Just because you haven't run into problems doesn't mean other people haven't or won't. Just because something works perfectly for you, and fits your needs, doesn't mean it'll fit the needs of everyone that tries to use it. In fact, sometimes our favorite things have inherent problems which just make them completely impractical, frustrating, difficult, or impossible for other people to use or deal with.

So let's just agree that the people that hate steam probably all have their own completely legitimate reasons as to why they do, and leave it at that.

There's no reason we can't agree to disagree, and there's no reason to make a big flame-war provoking thread about it either.

Let's just all sit back, agree that everything sucks in its own unique ways, and move on with our lives.

No fighting, no flame wars, no assumptions, just happiness and hugs.

Steam sucks!

[HeckobA]

I haven't had any problems with steam support - I've had to contact them twice before and it worked out fine.

[Envy661]

Steam sucks!

Saw that.
X, if it weren't for the fact that I've known you for literally longer than I have known anyone else on this forum, I would be very offended for just completely decimating everything I said and derailing any point I was trying to make.

Instead, since I have known you for so long, I'm just going to, you know, pillage your town, break your PC, shatter your kneecaps, and claim the life of your unborn child for myself.

You know, a little more reasonable than being offended.

[Nuff]

I'm pretty sure 90% of the haters of steam are kids who weren't even playing video games (or born) when steam first came about and made online gaming freaking awesome. Yoou can't stick your head up Valves [censored] about steam constantly and they still need negative feedback when it is deserved but most of that [censored] being chucked is by retards.

[MrFlyingAmoeba]

I think a small part of it might come from the exasperation of seeing Steam's QA for games being somewhat lackluster. I'm not really aware of the details since it doesn't affect me noticeably and I don't use Steam much at all these days, but Jimquisition and TotalBiscuit have both done videos (And continue to remark) on the aspects of Steam they dislike.

[Akira110]

I don't hate steam, I just don't like it very much. I was around when steam first came about and I heard everyone talking about it, but I remember how steam used to be, if the client closed, the game closed too. If the client lost connection, your single player game stopped. Some of us remember how it used to be and are still bitter towards it, but the biggest reason I'm not fond of it, Steam offers little in the way of what I'm looking for in my computer gaming experience, so I see VERY little point in it.

I don't like online multiplayer, because anyone can swear incessantly over their mic and all I can do about it is either mute them or quit the game and then report them, HOPING that something is done about them. With Local Multiplayer, I know who's doing it and I can ask them to stop face to face, not to mention, I prefer Local Multiplayer, because I get to hang with my friends, drink a few beers and have a good time.

What I look for in a computer gaming experience is the games I used to play in my childhood, anything else, and I got consoles for that. So for me, GOG.com is the PC gaming outlet for me. If you like steam and it gives you what you want, more power to you. But it's not my cup of tea.

[Him]

I haven't used Steam in so long. I only used it once too. That one time I had no problems. My friends also preach about how amazing it is. Sooo... as far as I know, Steam's alright. That's all you're going to get from me really.

[TinyVoices]

I hate it because you love it, Envy.

In reality, I've never really used steam. My computer can't really handle games, to my knowledge. And neither can my schedule or wallet.

I am starting to consider PC games for the first time since The Sims 2, though. Well, as a major game at least. Minecraft was just kind of there...

If and when I do start getting PC games, though, I will for sure consider Steam.

[Yash]

Steam's overlay doesn't suck.

It does if you use any of the applications on this list.

In fact, all of Steam sucks if you use any of the applications on this other list too.


Steam sucks!

Huh? Not only do I and many of my friends use a bunch of programs on both of those lists with 0 issue at all, even more of the programs on both of those list are programs that commonly cause lots of issues with many other programs too, including the games themselves regardless of if you have steam or not. Did you even bother checking those lists at all? Cause I'm getting the feeling you either hastily dug those up or just stole them from someone else's post on the internet without actually checking what you were downplaying steam with.

Seriously. Firewalls and anti-virus programs having issues with things? Especially things that frequently open and close connections on your PC and download executables and other potentially harmful(to an anti-virus program) files? That counts as "steam sucks!!!" ammo in your book?


*EDIT* And you do realize that both of those lists are for very uncommon edge-cases that do not affect the majority of the steam population, right?



*EDIT 2* My goodness this post is just so bad. Here's another one:

If none of that sounds like it's being forced down your throat, then I ask you to question what happens to people that buy single player steam games like Fallout New Vegas on a disc when they live in an area with spotty, limited, or non existent internet. Is it fair to those people that they could potentially never be able to play their completely legitimately purchased completely single-player game that otherwise would have worked flawlessly on an Xbox 360?

Uh, they can just play their single player game in offline mode. The mode that steam has. The mode specifically designed to let players avoid that particular issue. Their "spotty internet" will still allow them to sign onto steam for it's initial check to see that they own the game, and even download it even if slowly. The only players who could truly be affected by that are people who have no internet at all, in which case their lack of internet is stopping them from using *any* download service, as well as completely barring them from all forms of online multiplayer. That is an extremely small part of the population,(especially considering how many rural areas can still get satellite internet) no where near enough to be a significant statistic in why "steam sucks".

[ButterBall]

Eh, I'm one of those with the "spotty Internet." For whatever reason, it will play multiplayer games fine most of the time, but my downloads are capped at 150kb/s on a good day, if I'm lucky (the average tends to be about 1/3 to 1/2 that). So when I decided that I'd re-install Team Fortress 2 so I could jump into some friends' games it turned out that it'd take about 4-14 days to download the 15Gbs. So then I figured that hey, I've still got that TF2 disc that I bought from Fred Meyers several years ago. Maybe I'll just install some of the data off that and cut down the download time. So I popped in the disc, went through the on disc installer, and sat in shock and awe as Steam tried to install the entire game from the Steam servers, completely disregarding the disc. Sooooo, a point against Steam. Still not enough to not use it, though. I just can't do any spur of the moment gaming. Heh, Imagine if that had been Titanfall and its 60GBs...

[tony1695]

I have had nothing but good experiences with Steam. Oh sure, I may have trouble syncing with the cloud on occasion, and the item server in TF2 can be frustratingly hard to get a connection to at times, but those are really insignificant.

I feel the hate is coming from those who use one of the other, publisher-specific systems. They don't like that the competition is doing so well, so they go about and announce as loudly as they can all the flaws they can find, even if they have to exaggerate or outright fabricate evidence.

So when I decided that I'd re-install Team Fortress 2 so I could jump into some friends' games it turned out that it'd take about 4-14 days to download the 15Gbs. So then I figured that hey, I've still got that TF2 disc that I bought from Fred Meyers several years ago. Maybe I'll just install some of the data off that and cut down the download time. So I popped in the disc, went through the on disc installer, and sat in shock and awe as Steam tried to install the entire game from the Steam servers, completely disregarding the disc.

I think that's more to do with the fact that Team Fortress 2 is a completely different beast to the one that was released on disc all those years back. I might be wrong, but I think it actually uses a different version of the Source Engine than the one it was originally built for.

[ButterBall]

So when I decided that I'd re-install Team Fortress 2 so I could jump into some friends' games it turned out that it'd take about 4-14 days to download the 15Gbs. So then I figured that hey, I've still got that TF2 disc that I bought from Fred Meyers several years ago. Maybe I'll just install some of the data off that and cut down the download time. So I popped in the disc, went through the on disc installer, and sat in shock and awe as Steam tried to install the entire game from the Steam servers, completely disregarding the disc.

I think that's more to do with the fact that Team Fortress 2 is a completely different beast to the one that was released on disc all those years back. I might be wrong, but I think it actually uses a different version of the Source Engine than the one it was originally built for.

Isn't that what all those extra GBs are? Update data and new content not on the original disc? Or has the current version been altered to such an extent that the only things the retail copy is good for is the product key and to look pretty on a shelf?