Watch_Dogs: It Just Gets Worse.

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Schrodinger
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Watch_Dogs: It Just Gets Worse.

#1 Post by Schrodinger »

As if just shipping out a rather bland open world sandbox game under pressure of console manufacturers wasn't bad enough then this happens.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/06/16/ ... c-settings

Oh well... I'm sure they did their best to give us a true next-gen experience and that they held off for as long as they could to iron out all the kinks.

Good Job Ubi Montreal.
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Re: Watch_Dogs: It Just Gets Worse.

#2 Post by avwolf »

Eh, I got what I wanted out of Watch_Dogs, so I'm pretty happy. (I actually just wrote my review on it.) I've been lucky to avoid pretty much all the terrible bugs, crashes, and stuttering (at least once I got the game to actually play). The RPS review of the mod remarked that while the modded game was super gorgeous for taking screenshots, a lot of the graphical changes made it significantly more difficult to play, in particular the depth-of-field mod, which turned everything across the street into a big blur. The game still looks good, maybe not mind-blowingly good, but it still looks really good, so again, I don't feel strongly enough to make that a big gripe.

I could complain about the mushy driving controls, but since they're still better than most games with obligatory driving sections, that complaint would fall flat. I prefer to reserve my complaining for the lackluster storyline and the personality-less protagonist. At least we've still got Jordi Chen. That character is awesome.
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Re: Watch_Dogs: It Just Gets Worse.

#3 Post by Schrodinger »

This is coming from the position of a thrice bitten Ubisoft consumer. The continuing trend of over hype and under delivering takes its toll on me and at this point I can not take anything from Ubisoft without a massive grain of salt.
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Re: Watch_Dogs: It Just Gets Worse.

#4 Post by Envy661 »

The trend of overhyped games has been around since Modern Warfare 2, and it always ends disappointingly.

I never buy games at launch anymore. X Rebirth was the last game I bought at launch, and merely googling reviews for the game will tell you how that turned out.

You're going to be disappointed. Just don't buy into the hype. It's as simple as that. It won't live up to your expectations, because the primary reason we live in this great age of indie titles, is also because we are living in the age of AAA developer complacency. Just don't buy a AAA game until you've had time to analyze it to figure out if it's good or not.

I bought Dark Souls 2 at launch on PC, but there was months the game had already been out on console. I knew what I was getting.
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Re: Watch_Dogs: It Just Gets Worse.

#5 Post by Lief »

Envy661 wrote:The trend of overhyped games has been around since Modern Warfare 2, and it always ends disappointingly.

I never buy games at launch anymore. X Rebirth was the last game I bought at launch, and merely googling reviews for the game will tell you how that turned out.

You're going to be disappointed. Just don't buy into the hype. It's as simple as that. It won't live up to your expectations, because the primary reason we live in this great age of indie titles, is also because we are living in the age of AAA developer complacency. Just don't buy a AAA game until you've had time to analyze it to figure out if it's good or not.

I bought Dark Souls 2 at launch on PC, but there was months the game had already been out on console. I knew what I was getting.
I pre-ordered Borderlands 2 months before it was released. I was more than pleased with it on release. Now, to avoid completely derailing the thread...

Even with all the gripes people have with the game, it still looks interesting, so I'd still like to get it at some point. Not for full price, though...

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Re: Watch_Dogs: It Just Gets Worse.

#6 Post by The Rookie »

In the few days I had a chance to play the game I thought it was alright. Graphically, is was certainly lower than what E3 had promised, but it still held up well against games like GTA 5, which were still pretty impressive to me.

The thing that worries me most at the moment is the rumour that Ubisoft had purposely toned down the graphics at Microsoft's request.
So what some people are claiming is that because Microsoft really wanted Xbox One's kinect to do well, and because of the Kinect they had to make the game run lower to compensate for the Kinect using up about 10% of the Xbone's computing power. Now because of this, the Xbox version of the game would seem inadequate to the PC and PS4, which would make the console seem inferior, and Microsoft couldn't risk losing sales because of something like this. So, the conspiracy is that Microsoft threatened to not promote Watch Dogs on the Xbox One and the 360 and not to provide the game with a lot of online support unless the graphical quality was lowered on all platforms. Seems a bit far fetched, but Ubisoft would have lost nearly a half of their potential customers from a stunt like this, while Microsoft didn't have much to lose, making it seem some what possible.
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Re: Watch_Dogs: It Just Gets Worse.

#7 Post by avwolf »

I guess maybe the key is to adjust your expectations. Never believe anything from E3, it is 100% lies or mistruths, manufactured cinematics or stretched demos of pre-alpha games. It's a hype machine that's interesting and useful but shouldn't be used to set your expectations for the final product beyond the most vague anticipation. I wanted "Sleeping Dogs, only with Hollywood hacking instead of Kung Fu" and that's pretty much exactly what I got. With those expectations, I can be happy. I'm easy to please.

Waiting for a sale price on the game is not unreasonable, if only because you'll also get the patches that fix the performance issues and the UPlay rewards (the number of bugs that will cause the game to no longer load is the really unforgivable thing, not the "boo hoo, the graphics are worse than the manufactured for marketing purposes E3 demos showed" stuff). Like I said, I've been lucky -- I've only had the game stutter twice, and only one of those times was in game play, the other time was minor stuttering in a cut scene. Lots of people have had much worse problems, and while I like the game, I would still recommend people wait until Ubisoft manages to release those patches before they sink money into the game.
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Re: Watch_Dogs: It Just Gets Worse.

#8 Post by Schrodinger »

avwolf wrote:I guess maybe the key is to adjust your expectations. Never believe anything from E3, it is 100% lies or mistruths, manufactured cinematics or stretched demos of pre-alpha games. It's a hype machine that's interesting and useful but shouldn't be used to set your expectations for the final product beyond the most vague anticipation. I wanted "Sleeping Dogs, only with Hollywood hacking instead of Kung Fu" and that's pretty much exactly what I got. With those expectations, I can be happy. I'm easy to please.
It's a good contrast there. Sleeping Dogs has a rather robust suite of features but what sold me on it was the storyline and the setting. Driving around an abridged version of Hong Kong as an undercover cop in one of the cities largest triads appealed to me with the novelty of it. A familiar premise, an open world crime game, set in a culture I hadn't been exposed to yet. I can't say the same of Watch_Dogs. The more I learn about the story and characters the less interested I become. Watch_Dogs has an interesting mechanic to be sure but it just doesn't seem fully fleshed out. Aiden Pierce was being built up as a grey hat hacker turned brutal vigilante but from what I've heard second hand, from multiple sources, is that Aiden is an [censored] that got in over his head and goes on a revenge trip with his far more interesting supporting cast armed with a magic wand with an "I Win" button pre-installed.

I've given Ubisoft [censored] before, quite loudly and frequently in fact, that their prerelease media is very misleading as to the quality and experience of the final product. At what point can we stop and say that it's gone too far with this kind of false advertising? Not just for Ubisoft but for anyone in the industry.
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Re: Watch_Dogs: It Just Gets Worse.

#9 Post by avwolf »

Cyber Chicago is kind of an interesting setting. They also did some interesting things with storytelling that I can't tell if they were intentional or not. Some (not many, but some) cutscenes have weird artifacts and smearing, which might be intentional. The city seems really full and vibrant, but after a while, you start to see how the RNG's generation of NPCs work, and it dehumanizes them -- they're just data points walking around, saying the same things to each other. Compared to the less populated but more expressive Hong Kong of Sleeping Dogs, Chicago seems more mechanical and less human; which again, might be intentional. I can't tell if some of what they did in Watch_Dogs is brilliant or accidental.

At present, I get a lot more out of the hacked audio logs left behind in the side missions than I really do out of the main storyline, which, so far, is not particularly creative or especially interesting. Wei was a much much better protagonist than Aiden. Wei actually had a personality and a moral line to balance on. The ending of Sleeping Dogs actually left open the question of Wei's ultimate decision of which side of the line (cop or Triad member) he was really going to come down on. Aiden so far is a very bland guy out for revenge. As far as I can tell, Ubisoft really doesn't have anything they want to say with Aiden; though some of the other characters -- particularly Dedsec -- appear to have something meaningful to say in the story. Aiden is the Bella Swan of the story: as close to an empty mask for the audience to wear as they possibly can manage. After all, a main character with a personality might impede the player's ability to pretend to be that character. (I'm being a little harsh, but Ubisoft certainly didn't challenge themselves or their players with Aiden's writing.)

The driving mechanics in Watch_Dogs aren't as good as in Sleeping Dogs, but the XP mechanic, while less creative, feels much more fair and less frustrating. They improved the way unlocks work, so you don't have to do as many things that you don't like in order to get unlocks. I like having a music player I can listen to as I walk around. The fact that you can now get a car to appear relatively nearby instantly, no matter where you are, and there's several other fast travel options are extremely welcome. It kind of plays a lot like you'd expect a sequel to play: a less challenging to understand main character to increase general appeal, a modernization of the interface and an emphasis on covershooting to help 'average' gamers understand what's going on, an improvement on some mechanics and a loss on others, mostly in hopes of making the game more accessible. I don't generally encourage the comparisons to Assassin's Creed, but I have to admit, it's a little like the transition from Assassin's Creed to Assassin's Creed 2 in that way.

-- Edit --
For funsies, let's look at the cinematic influences on Sleeping Dogs and Watch_Dogs. Sleeping Dogs is so closely based on Infernal Affairs, it might as well be a video game adaptation of the film. If you haven't seen it, trust me when I say that Infernal Affairs is a fantastic movie. It has multiple sequels of its own and inspired several more Hollywood movies (most famously The Departed). It's a great story with a lot of depth, all wrapped in a kung fu action drama. The closest thing I can think of for Watch_Dogs would be something like Swordfish or Live Free or Die Hard, neither of which has been lauded as a great movie with an intriguing plot, compelling characters, or high drama. I mean, unless you're like me and worship Bruce Willis in all his films, even The Kid. :P Hollywood hacking films are pretty uniformly terrible. As long as they're fun terrible, we can be okay with that, but I'm not sure we can expect Ubisoft to invent a character with more depth and conviction than Swordfish put in Hugh Jackman. This is Ubisoft we're talking about, whose biggest claim to fame right now is "being not as bad as EA." They invented the character of Desmond Miles, who probably demonstrates better than any other of their game protagonists exactly how much contempt they hold their players in. Not even Aiden Pearce wastes the players time and insults their intelligence with a bland, meaningless existence floating along the meandering river of plot as much as Desmond Miles.
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Re: Watch_Dogs: It Just Gets Worse.

#10 Post by Sable Dove »

avwolf wrote: Compared to the less populated but more expressive Hong Kong of Sleeping Dogs, Chicago seems more mechanical and less human; which again, might be intentional. I can't tell if some of what they did in Watch_Dogs is brilliant or accidental.
To be fair, I'd wager that actual Chicago seems more mechanical and less human than actual Hong Kong.
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Re: Watch_Dogs: It Just Gets Worse.

#11 Post by Schrodinger »

Sable Dove wrote:
avwolf wrote: Compared to the less populated but more expressive Hong Kong of Sleeping Dogs, Chicago seems more mechanical and less human; which again, might be intentional. I can't tell if some of what they did in Watch_Dogs is brilliant or accidental.
To be fair, I'd wager that actual Chicago seems more mechanical and less human than actual Hong Kong.
Let's look at the 360 and PS3 versions for a moment.
avwolf wrote:This is Ubisoft we're talking about, whose biggest claim to fame right now is "being not as bad as EA." They invented the character of Desmond Miles, who probably demonstrates better than any other of their game protagonists exactly how much contempt they hold their players in. Not even Aiden Pearce wastes the players time and insults their intelligence with a bland, meaningless existence floating along the meandering river of plot as much as Desmond Miles.
Desmond served a purpose as a plot device and nothing more, they wanted to have their big twist reveal that the Templar are still around and there's a shadow war between Modern Assassins and Modern Templar being fought over the relics of an advanced culture. All of that by the way has amounted to nothing as the plot du jour of any given AC title is infinitely more interesting and any of the future crap comes across as extraneous filler material. But let us all stop and reflect on Desmond Miles and how he went through the lives of three of his ancestors to learn their skills only to save they world... by fisting a bug zapper. Oh well, our next protagonist is a nameless, voiceless, complete and utter cipher that we control in the first person as we follow the far more fascinating Edward Kenway on his pirate adventures. Also assassins for some reason.
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Re: Watch_Dogs: It Just Gets Worse.

#12 Post by avwolf »

Schrodinger wrote:
Sable Dove wrote:
avwolf wrote: Compared to the less populated but more expressive Hong Kong of Sleeping Dogs, Chicago seems more mechanical and less human; which again, might be intentional. I can't tell if some of what they did in Watch_Dogs is brilliant or accidental.
To be fair, I'd wager that actual Chicago seems more mechanical and less human than actual Hong Kong.
Let's look at the 360 and PS3 versions for a moment.
Wow, looking at that I suddenly understand all the complaints. I mean, that looks awful. It's ugly, low fidelity and empty. On my PC, I'm stuck in constant gridlock and surrounded by crowds. In that, there's no cars and almost no people. Man, if I owned that version of the game, I'd be pissed. No wonder people are up in arms.

-- I hope --
It doesn't look that bad on current gen. I mean, the PS3 is sort of the red-headed stepchild of the last gen.
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Re: Watch_Dogs: It Just Gets Worse.

#13 Post by ButterBall »

So, I told myself that if I got Watch_Dogs, it would be for Wii-U because it's the newest gaming machine I have. Also, since there's still no confirmed release date for it now's not a bad time to find out if it's worth getting. So what sort of expectations does the Wii-U version of Watch_Dogs have? Graphical downgrades? Gameplay alterations? Is the screen controller going to have any fun functionality or will it be ignored completely?
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Re: Watch_Dogs: It Just Gets Worse.

#14 Post by SirSlaughter »

This game is truly one you must get on PC. if you get them on the consoles:

Game breaking glitches
Lower muddy textures
Lack of "life" in the city (almost no civilians when you are mobile, Cars not appearing, cars disappear when you go one block away, issues with invisible walls, the list goes on)


When you do the PC version you do get much more, BUT it also has its fair share of hickups:

Stuttering when moving fast (Driving a car)
framerate drops when driving a car fast causing you to lose control as the game catches up with what just happened
downgraded textures (Still better than console though) compared to what was promised and only being able to get to the promise land with a patch
really bad optimization with ATI cards and AMD procs (Nvidia fanboys rejoice)
the list goes on there as well, but it mostly has to do with framerate issues and optimizations that are needed.

But the pro of PC is great. The city is "Alive". People are everywhere and things are always happening. Whether it be a crime I have to drive to, a gang hideout, or even just someone being mugged. So far the game has been great for me. Now I admit, I think that this game deserves the bad reviews, ESPECIALLY since they even delayed this game for "polishing" and they still come out with something watered down and glitchy.

Console players are completely right in that the game was not what was expected by any means. But for me so far the PC version has been fantastic. Not E3 fantastic, just a really good game kind of fantastic...I seem to be one of the lucky ones who hasn't encountered many issues.

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Re: Watch_Dogs: It Just Gets Worse.

#15 Post by Insomniac »

SirSlaughter wrote: But the pro of PC is great. The city is "Alive". People are everywhere and things are always happening. Whether it be a crime I have to drive to, a gang hideout, or even just someone being mugged. So far the game has been great for me. Now I admit, I think that this game deserves the bad reviews, ESPECIALLY since they even delayed this game for "polishing" and they still come out with something watered down and glitchy.

Console players are completely right in that the game was not what was expected by any means. But for me so far the PC version has been fantastic. Not E3 fantastic, just a really good game kind of fantastic...I seem to be one of the lucky ones who hasn't encountered many issues.
I have been watching a walkthrough of this game on the PS4, and I can say quite definitively that the world feels QUITE alive and full of people. Not ENOUGH people, but still quite a bit, I'd say about on par with GTA 5.
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