NSFW | Indwelling V2 - A TK Slash Fic

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The Rookie
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Re: NSFW Indwelling - A TK Slash Fic

#1 Post by The Rookie »

[video]https://youtu.be/6nSKkwzwdW4[/video]

To be honest, I couldn't read past the first... Incident...
Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

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amenon
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Re: NSFW Indwelling - A TK Slash Fic

#2 Post by amenon »

Aww, that was so sweet!
Spoiler!
But seriously, no lube? And "I'm way too pregnant to want sex any time soon."? Come on!
That did a heart good. Is there any specific kind of feedback you want?

(Also: You got me to switch off my word filter; you can take a point for that :P)
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Re: NSFW Indwelling - A TK Slash Fic

#3 Post by amenon »

SperoWolf wrote:And I'm surprised that did your heart any good; does it have an affection for terrible romantic porn plot?
I see you're not familiar with my work :P
SperoWolf wrote:I kind of just wrote this for the sake of writing it, but I welcome any feedback you might have ^^
Thanks for writing it, mostly! It's clear that you could have done better if you gave it more time, so I don't think it makes any sense to go into the prose. You got it across, and my immediate content niggles were in the spoiler block already.

More may occur to me, and I'll probably read it again tomorrow. But really, thanks for writing it!
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Re: NSFW Indwelling - A TK Slash Fic

#4 Post by amenon »

SperoWolf wrote:I remember that I skimmed that when I first joined the forum; which is saying a lot because that's the only story I can remember reading at all in the last few years xp I should probably go back and be more thorough
If you only read one piece of Twokinds slash, make it Desire for Orders.

If you read two, well, then we can talk.
SperoWolf wrote:I'm really negative when it comes to my view of my... well, everything I do. It makes it hard to dedicate time to second drafts or even rereading when I'd prefer to just copy and paste the story somewhere; then be done with it. I'm sure there were quite a few mistakes.
Yeah, it's pretty bad at places, and would benefit a lot from a second draft. But the motivation for that kinda has to be internal; I'd have a hard time telling you it would be 'worth it' on any kind of cost-benefit basis. And I'd rather see it like this than not at all, so at least with me you did enough :P
SperoWolf wrote:I don't get why you found a problem with the "I'm too pregnant for sex" part, though. Women stop being horny when they're very preggo and some men neither want to have sex when there's also a baby or write stories involving having sex when there's also a baby cx Not really my thing
I'm not saying you should have written a scene with her, but that line just rubs me the wrong way because it isn't some kind of absolute truth. Not that characters need or should only say things that are absolutely true, but in this context, what with all the gay sexings and all, it comes across to me as 'look at this silly pregnant woman'. I can almost hear the laugh track.

I'm not saying there's necessarily anything wrong with the line, mind you; I'm just reporting how I reacted to it, and why I think that might be.
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Re: NSFW Indwelling - A TK Slash Fic

#5 Post by amenon »

SperoWolf wrote:I honestly just got dismayed at the very limited number of options one has to say "phallus" without using a word that sounds ridiculous,
But the ridiculous words are really, really fun to use!

So I thought about it, and read it again, and here's some more comments:
Spoiler!
- Convenient unconsciousness; ever the friend of an author wanting to end a scene. Makes sense though (I figure they drugged him as a precursor to magicking him. He's way too dangerous to risk him having second thoughts.)
- Points for Trace's clothing
- That he went for Song like that is utterly adorable.
- I really like the idea of mostly gay Trace. Makes me tilt my head and go '...yeah. That actually makes some sense.' Can't sell me on him being all gay, but mostly gay -- or maybe a biromantic homosexual? -- is definitely going into my character interpretation arsenal. When you think about it, connections could even be drawn to his extreme rage against the Keidran in his previous role.
- Related to the above, I think it's really important that he chose this, even if the alternatives weren't exactly great. That this is how he chose to atone is... pretty much peak slash. I'd like to see his decision process. Intrigued, yes?
- All the rest of the Song stuff, also utterly adorable
- Trace's inner monologues are hilarious.
- Also points for Church of Ephemural
- Doorway? Boat? What?
- Wouldn't everyone know what had happened, already? Kinda the point of the exercise, no?
- Is 'unfaithful' really a word Flora would use there?
- Clueless Trace feels on point
- You kiiiiinda forgot to reveal how the peace talks went. Some people might care about a thing like that :P
Overall, I'll give you high marks on concept, no complaints on structure, and a rating of 'regrettable' for prose. I'll read more if you write more, and further drafts would be appreciated, but be warned; fixing this would probably take you more time than writing it in the first place did. Possibly a lot more time, though I'm just guessing. (We're clearly very different when it comes to writing.)

If you decide to put serious effort into polishing it, I volunteer my services as a beta reader.
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Re: NSFW | Indwelling V2 - A TK Slash Fic

#6 Post by amenon »

SperoWolf wrote: The slash has been revised! :D At least every other line had MAJOR revisions to it, and it's about 1.5 times as long now. So if anyone didn't read it before or did and would be interested in a version with improvements; smutwithwaytoomuchstory.exe Version 2.0 is now available in the original post ^^
Thank you! I think the additions worked, and the prose is much improved in places -- though there's still a lot of clunk in there. Broken language, odd word choices, run-on and hard-to-parse sentences. I could go through and highlight some of what I feel are the worst offenders, if that's something you'd be interested in?

But oh my that coda.
Spoiler!
- The story comes across as idealizing the Keidran. It was already tilting that way in the original version, but I feel like you added something that pushed it over the edge.
- The rhetoric of 'how gay is Trace' is pretty confused now, since parts of the story are pulling in different directions.
- Different Word, Same Complaint: Is cheating really a word she'd use there? It's not called 'cheating' because it's okay, and if it's okay it probably isn't called cheating. Dig deeper :P
- If you want to stick with the crew not having yet heard of what befell Trace, I think you need to handwave it more. Intuition continues to say that word would have reached them.
- Lubrication :roll: Well played, I guess.
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Re: NSFW | Indwelling V2 - A TK Slash Fic

#7 Post by amenon »

SperoWolf wrote:I'd be happy to see the parts that may stumble readers ^^
Right, I'll pull some out. Would be nice if I can get it done on Sunday, but no promises. Aaand here we are.
Spoiler!
Some things that seem odd or are hard to figure out:
- Trace saying "It was the best I could offer."
- "and a sign lay shortly beyond them with a small crowd of assorted races." [Which races?]
- "Seeing nothing but nude bodies surrounding him, it couldn’t be gathered why a weapon check was even necessary to begin with." [It's a good joke, but 'it couldn't be gathered' is way too passive.]
- "After a long pause Trace exhaled, and took to his knees as he noticed his escort had begun to walk away." [Took to his knees from... what position?]
- "He had expected misery, which he was sure was still to come, but thus far he hadn’t felt much at all." [Given what comes next, I guess that should be read 'much misery at all', but the immediate reading is something like shock]
- "not used to his feeling and quickly adjusting to breathing wholly through his nose." [Putting aside the his/this typo, is the takeaway here that Trace is a mouth breather? :P]
- "by a different wolf grasping his chin and presenting himself in front of his face." [Just 'a wolf', since it's a fox banging him and Song isn't a reference point anymore]
- "And gods, the way the head forced itself into him with each thrust made him want the fox to never pull back." [I guess the meaning to take is 'never wanted the fox to stop', but it reads funny in context]
- "Though he would be lying to say most of his smile wasn't apparent from the sheer feeling of discussing sex with the man he felt so strongly for."
- "He never liked the feeling of need and vulnerability after becoming emotional, and the fact that he had been embracing a gorgeous Keidran certainly didn’t help his plight."
- "Slowly he felt himself press forward, the wolf rocking his hips in time as the Templar's cock finally pressed inward with one strong push." [Inward just... just, no.]
- "He quickened his pace, his attention once again returning to the beautiful wolf gasping faintly below him." [He was previously stopped, though]
- "He grabbed his hands as they closed theirs together, and once again pressed the wolf’s lips against his own."
- “Now are you going to let me onto the boat so I can make outdated song references or what?” [I don't think having a single fourth-wall gag makes a lot of sense.]
- "and Kathrin looked as though she’d seen a ghost." vs "Natani and Kat where having trouble keeping their jaws off of the floor all day."
- "Ahhh! Trace!" Flora shouted, her legs spread above the wolf as the Templar knelt behind her. [She's straddling him, yea? That was a bit of a head-scratcher]


Some silly or unnecessary qualifiers:
- "Trace soon learned the immediate error of his attending the meeting."
- "He deeply prayed that they were carrying him out of the area,"
- "mixed with a loathsome smile" [Why loathsome here? I get why you might use it in relation to Song, later, but why here?]
- "when they reached what he assumed was the Keidran army." [No [censored], Sherlock.]
- "The wolf quietly adopted a solemn attitude"
- "He appeared to be outside of a human city" [Really, Sherlock.]
- "each murmuring nervously to one another"
- "let alone begin to force open his eyes."

Wonky uses of the word 'felt':
- he soon felt himself thrown out
- and soon he felt his arms being cast into chains
- Trace felt the Keidran quickly spin him over onto his stomach
- as he felt the wolf’s warm cock slide into his mouth

Word choices that seem odd to me:
- rampaging
- maw [eep]
- midsection [the interesting bits are immediately below the midsection. Not to slight the midsection itself, it's a perfectly cromulent part of anatomy, but you know what I mean.]
- rod [I kinda feel like I should salute this one, but it just seem to stand out from the rest of the euphemisms you use, somehow. Feels like this one is not like the others.]
- drew [sometimes]

Straightforward errors:
- this never would have forced this on you
- and he’d occasionally feel a hand grab his erect member or even someone even giving him.
- to have thoroughly came everything
- Pitiful thoughts flew threw him
- Would she hated him?


And there's a bunch of prose that -- while clear enough -- is bad, especially in the sex scenes (with the exception of the last scene, which is quite good). Some standouts:
- "He found himself unable to manage swallowing the portion pouring directly down his throat along with what had exploded into his mouth, with the wolf’s hand still holding his head firmly in place."
- "Trace felt a pit of anxiety grow in his stomach, which resulted with a loud gasp when the Keidran’s claw cut down his boxers before quickly tearing them off."
- "Still unable to get a hold over himself, he soon ceased licking and bit hard against his lower lip as he continued attempting to settle in to the feeling of being taken, now swinging his hips in time with the Keidran’s thrusting."
- "The fox and wolf seemed to quicken their paces in time, his head now being held firmly in place as his he took the Keidran’s fierce thrusts into his mouth, while the fox gripped his hips desperately as he slammed his midsection against Trace's rear."
SperoWolf wrote: -I honestly tried to portray Keidran as best as Tom does, and he more or less sexually "idealizes" them. With all Flora's tales of how sexually loose they are or her being told that she shouldn't stay with one lover, them becoming sexually uncontrollable beasts once a month, Mike and Evals mocking humans for not practicing polyamory like Keidran do, etc. I honestly only made the point of them being so lax because it seemed Tom himself had
Oh, I didn't mean that at all; I think you're doing a fine job there (excepting my complaints about Flora's language, which are complaints specifically because they're contradictory with what you actually show). I meant with the war. The Keidran come across as the purely victimized party, even though that probably doesn't (or isn't going to) fit with Twokinds itself. I feel like the prevailing opinion is that there's not really any good guys or bad guys to this story, and I think that's probably correct. And though it seems to be the case that humanity has been slowly encroaching on Keidran territory, I don't think it's been shown that that would have been strictly at their expense. [Though really, I guess territory is the best guess as to why things have come to outright warfare.]

Or to put it another way, remember that Keidran also enslave Keidran. Even if the narrative is tinted by Trace's guilt over his actions, it still feels to me a bit too biased towards the Keidran.
SperoWolf wrote:-Are you saying the rhetoric doesn't fit or that it contradicts itself?
Self-contradictory.
Spoiler!
How Gay Is Trace:
- "[...] could make him feel more pleased than anything in his life. Even with the surrounding crowd producing feelings of discomfort, Trace felt like he was having sex for the first time ever."
- "Song was attractive, beautiful even. Besides Flora, Trace couldn't ever remember feeling such allure radiating from someone's body."
- "Of course it felt good, and it felt better than anything I’ve felt with Flora because… Damn it!"
- "Gods, it felt just as good as it had with Flora."
- "“How does this feel better than anything with Flora? That never felt too enjoyable in the first place, but girls are… wetter, or something. It can’t be this much better just because he’s so hot! [...]"
- butI’mdefinitelygay
SperoWolf wrote: -Yeah, I actually thought of that while writing it. "Ah, screw it, no one will notice" was what came to mind, I see now that I was incorrect x.x
I hone in on some stuff because my mind immediately goes to how I would use those elements if I were writing the thing. Sometimes that lets me see something that's missing.
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Re: NSFW | Indwelling V2 - A TK Slash Fic

#8 Post by amenon »

SperoWolf wrote:Thank you for being so thorough, I'll be adjusting all the lines you pointed out in my next revision. Also, I must have forgotten almost every negative view of the Keidran besides sexual "delinquency".
How's that a negative?! :P
SperoWolf wrote: I couldn't at all remember them enslaving themselves or having any form of negative role. I assumed even things like Keidran bandits killing Trace's wife were brought on by the tyranny of the humans. I suppose I should at least mention they weren't perfect and add a small penalty onto their shoulders following the verdict of the peace talks
Wars are not morality contests, and the winners dictate the terms. I'm curious to see how you'll end up handling this.

Story/slash ratio is a complicated question, and there's surely no single right answer. Any amount of either is too much for some, too little for others. Author's prerogative.

Glad to have been of some help, and looking forward to new developments.
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Re: NSFW | Indwelling V2 - A TK Slash Fic

#9 Post by red.wolf »

So i may have misinterpreted the term slash fic and skipped the warning at the beginning. I cant unread what i wasnt prepared to see. Not going off on the story, just saying that if you dont know what it is, read the warning and the definition of slash fic. Dont make my mistake and go in having no idea.
The first shot is not the one that matters. The last shot determines everything.

http://twokinds.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=18223---- Both Sides > My Fanfic
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Re: NSFW | Indwelling V2 - A TK Slash Fic

#10 Post by Dadrobit »

red.wolf wrote:So i may have misinterpreted the term slash fic and skipped the warning at the beginning. I cant unread what i wasnt prepared to see. Not going off on the story, just saying that if you dont know what it is, read the warning and the definition of slash fic. Dont make my mistake and go in having no idea.
How.... How do you miss that many warning signs?

Also, although the story itself isn't terrible, I just personally cannot suspend my disbelief enough to accept that -THAT- is the punishment for the slaughter, enslavement, and war that was brought about from Traces actions.

"You are found guilty as the deciding actor behind the mass deaths and genocides wrought on the world over the past year and thus you are sentenced to magical nullification and buttsecks.
Lots of it.
Like, for a whole day.
With strangers.
In public.
Yeah, that sounds about right.
COURT DISMISSED, BRING IN THE DANCIN' LOBSTAHS!"
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Re: NSFW | Indwelling V2 - A TK Slash Fic

#11 Post by amenon »

Dadrobit wrote:Also, although the story itself isn't terrible, I just personally cannot suspend my disbelief enough to accept that -THAT- is the punishment for the slaughter, enslavement, and war that was brought about from Traces actions.
To be fair, the Basitin reaction to him trying to lobotomize their leadership and killing about a dozen or so of their soldiers was to just let him go :P

I think it's a rather interesting punishment, honestly, because it will have consequences. He became the living embodiment of humanity getting [censored] (hah!); that's a lot to live down. Given how it was presented and the extenuating circumstances -- and that there might be some goodwill for Flora involved, as well -- it didn't seem beyond the pale to me. It would also take some rather creative justice to pin the war itself on Trace, even though he's doubtless responsible in some manner, and I imagine that puts what passed before in a different perspective.
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Re: NSFW | Indwelling V2 - A TK Slash Fic

#12 Post by Dadrobit »

amenon wrote:
Dadrobit wrote:Also, although the story itself isn't terrible, I just personally cannot suspend my disbelief enough to accept that -THAT- is the punishment for the slaughter, enslavement, and war that was brought about from Traces actions.
To be fair, the Basitin reaction to him trying to lobotomize their leadership and killing about a dozen or so of their soldiers was to just let him go :P

I think it's a rather interesting punishment, honestly, because it will have consequences. He became the living embodiment of humanity getting [censored] (hah!); that's a lot to live down. Given how it was presented and the extenuating circumstances -- and that there might be some goodwill for Flora involved, as well -- it didn't seem beyond the pale to me. It would also take some rather creative justice to pin the war itself on Trace, even though he's doubtless responsible in some manner, and I imagine that puts what passed before in a different perspective.
Oh trust me, I still have my qualms about how all of that was handled, especially when -no one- questioned how or why the arms general got absolutely blown to bits. Master and intelligence, sure they might have been seen as insane and were killed while (somewhat) unknowingly harming the kingdom.

But the Arms general? Dude was half a mile away and taken out in a way unfathomable by anyone other than Trace who was already locked up and rampaging at the tower. But it's totally not even touched upon by anyone during the trial...

Just always thought it odd that that just kinda got left out entirely.
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Re: NSFW | Indwelling V2 - A TK Slash Fic

#13 Post by Dadrobit »

SperoWolf wrote:
Also, "not terrible" is all I can hope for when writing a story. I never read, so my prose is weird as [censored]
Don't take that too harshly mate, I'm coming into this story with a negative bias. Functionally it's alright, I personally just find it hard to digest slash fics with characters that aren't naturally inclined to be written in such a manner. EG: every Ron/Harry/Draco slash fic ever made. Indeed most gay aligned stories don't really rock my box o' giggles, but that's just my preferences.
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Re: NSFW | Indwelling V2 - A TK Slash Fic

#14 Post by Dadrobit »

Here's the dealyo. Before I dig in here to what I'd like to suggest to you, please allow me to preface it with the following.

I am not suggesting a better direction for the story, I am only providing a different perspective, and through it and an alternative direction the story could have taken. My intention is not negative or inflammatory in any way, and I am sorry if at any point it comes across as such. All criticism is meant simply as suggestion and is not meant to provoke in any way. Ultimately the path in which a story takes is up to the author in the absolute, and I respect that in the utmost no matter the outcome.

*Whew* Ok, meat and potatoes.

I did not get to read the initial version of this piece, however, by going back and reading the comments, I might assume that the original consisted mostly of the orgy and maybe a bit of coming out to Flora? And after a bit of constructive criticism you decided to re-write and add more which in turn altered the focus to be more on Song and Traces relationship ya? I for one agree that that is a better direction for the story and it's why I think it could be further altered to improve it even more.

Let's look at the highly skeleton-ized summary of the plot to start out, ( and please correct me if I am wrong.)

-Protagonist is charged with punishment for mass-crimes he unknowingly committed.
-Punishment must be non-lethal, visible and public.
-Through his punishment, protagonist discovers his deeper romantic/homosexual side with one of his guards.
-Protagonist has difficulty understanding at first, but eventually comes to terms with both sides.

That sound about right?

My main concern in writing this response is to stay as close to the original summary/plot as possible, while at the same time nearly changing it entirely to further explain the intimacy between Trace and Song. The central barrier and my point of dispute stems from the orgy for two main reasons.

First, although it's public, it's only available to the town it's held in and anyone close enough to reach it within the week prior to the event. Sure, the story can be re-told and spread to other towns, but we're talking about compensation for war across an entire continent. However the punishment is so localized as to make the rest go "what punishment?"

Second, I feel that although you have certainly shifted the focus to be more on their relationship, an orgy really just isn't the way to go here in my honest opinion, and yet it's still such a huge 'mover' or initiator in their relationship as prior to that Trace just thought he was "nice" and "handsome". Orgies are not effective relationship starters, but afterwards it jumps fairly immediately into Trace feeling "safe and loved". As an example for how preposterous this appears to me: I might have a man crush on Iseiah Mustafa, but getting a one-sided prostate pounding by him and the rest of the Seahawks for a day is not going to convince me of the virtues of being a pillow biter. I understand that the Keidran are indeed promiscuous and that this is intended to be a salacious story, but I feel that you can still still handle it better and have all that.

Third, is it really punishment if he ended up liking it? (being facetious here)

Allow me to make a radical proposal. Remove the orgy as it is as the punishment, and exchange it for a realistic punishment which can still further Trace and Songs relationship as I feel that is where the real story lies and has the most potential.

The orgy can come later, (albeit as a smaller more consensual one.)

Are you still reading? If not, I understand, but please give me a bit more to explain how it might play out.

When considering a punishment that is non-lethal and highly visible, the first thing that jumps to mind is a Scarlet Letter approach. However, as we are dealing with some pretty heinous crimes and we also want to to build sympathy for Trace that Song can work off of to realize their affair, I would go for more of an Inglorious Basterds face-carving of the Templar insignia type of Scarlet letter. Then throw him dressed only in chains and shackles in a cage that's two sizes too small and parade him for a year through the main cities of the Wolf territories.

Why so harsh? Well, this harshness does a number of things for you to show the relationship building process. Before, the majority of Songs initial interactions with Trace were covered in about 5 sentences and it really didn't show anything at all other than implying that Song was "nice" to Trace. But here you're given bases to work from. Have Song clean the face-carving, have him tend to the inevitable cuts and sores from the shackles, have him procure and give blankets to Trace on the cold nights, show the idle conversations as well as the ones where he comforts Trace over not being able to be with Flora for his child's birth and very early life.

There's so much there for you to work off of to really build their bonds over the course of the year.

(Oh, and if you really like the idea of an orgy,Trace would have several guards no? And I'm sure you could find a way to give a few of them names and interactions by the end of a year of constant contact hm? There's plenty of time between cities for a party here and there. 8) )

And in the end, coming home to Flora isn't going to be an awkward affair at all, it'll be an emotional one even with Traces new proclivities. Trace is no longer gone for just a two week jaunt with the wolves, he was absent for a year and both sides are going to be emotionally crushed and distraught at his absence due to their child.

Of course again I must stress that this is merely my own perspective on how the story could have been handled and I wholeheartedly understand that whatever you have done and will do are choices that are entirely up to you.

'Course, then again I could just be looking way too hard into a story that was purely written just for the sake of its own lasciviousness and I've managed to miss the point entirely. [censored] happens. :potatoes:
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Re: NSFW | Indwelling V2 - A TK Slash Fic

#15 Post by amenon »

Dadrobit wrote:I did not get to read the initial version of this piece, however, by going back and reading the comments, I might assume that the original consisted mostly of the orgy and maybe a bit of coming out to Flora? And after a bit of constructive criticism you decided to re-write and add more which in turn altered the focus to be more on Song and Traces relationship ya? I for one agree that that is a better direction for the story and it's why I think it could be further altered to improve it even more.
Apart from the addition of the coda, I think the only substantive change was the (related) partial realigning of Trace's sexuality. For the rest it was just added definition; it was still very nearly the same story.

I'm pulling this bit out of order because it suits me best to make my main points:
Dadrobit wrote: Second, I feel that although you have certainly shifted the focus to be more on their relationship, an orgy really just isn't the way to go here in my honest opinion, and yet it's still such a huge 'mover' or initiator in their relationship as prior to that Trace just thought he was "nice" and "handsome". Orgies are not effective relationship starters, but afterwards it jumps fairly immediately into Trace feeling "safe and loved".
I'd say that this orgy is a remarkably good relationship starter, because it fulfills two necessary criteria at the same time; it's a big enough hammer to hit Trace with to get him to admit his feelings, and it gives him a bye from infidelity to Flora. (It also lets him assuage his guilt of his past, so it actually does triple duty, which is a a very healthy number of duties for a story element.)

I actually think SperoWolf displays very good sense in how the story is structured. (This, of course, means that it suits my sensibilities for such things. I'm not claiming objective arbiter status.) It makes sense that the orgy comes right away, precisely because the orgy isn't the point; Song is. The orgy is the setup, and Song is the payoff. If it were the other way around, I think it would either be more muddled (they're happy; there's an orgy; they're happy again) or want to become a tragedy (they're happy; there's an orgy; they're not).

There's also the spacing of smut scenes to consider. It just... makes sense to me to jump straight into the deep end.

Some more specific responses follow (with my tongue, as always, firmly in my cheek)
Dadrobit wrote: First, although it's public, it's only available to the town it's held in and anyone close enough to reach it within the week prior to the event. Sure, the story can be re-told and spread to other towns, but we're talking about compensation for war across an entire continent. However the punishment is so localized as to make the rest go "what punishment?"
The starting point of the story is one where armies have been amassed, so I think it's reasonable to say that the call would have went out far enough. Demand also outrstipped supply, so I don't think more could have been accomplished with the depicted form of punishment :P
Dadrobit wrote:As an example for how preposterous this appears to me: I might have a man crush on Iseiah Mustafa, but getting a one-sided prostate pounding by him and the rest of the Seahawks for a day is not going to convince me of the virtues of being a pillow biter.
Not even if it was your karmic punishment for (very) unsportsmanlike conduct? :P
Dadrobit wrote:Third, is it really punishment if he ended up liking it? (being facetious here)
In some rather interesting ways. Consider the likely varied reactions of humanity at large, and also the possible implications of needing to explain to his commiserating friends that he actually rather liked it.

Dadrobit wrote:The orgy can come later, (albeit as a smaller more consensual one.)
I'd say this orgy was exceedingly consensual. And that's actually hugely important to my presence in this thread; I would not be here if I saw even the slightest implication of rape in it.

This might actually be at the heart of our differing perceptions of the story, because...
Dadrobit wrote: When considering a punishment that is non-lethal and highly visible, the first thing that jumps to mind is a Scarlet Letter approach. However, as we are dealing with some pretty heinous crimes and we also want to to build sympathy for Trace that Song can work off of to realize their affair, I would go for more of an Inglorious Basterds face-carving of the Templar insignia type of Scarlet letter. Then throw him dressed only in chains and shackles in a cage that's two sizes too small and parade him for a year through the main cities of the Wolf territories. [...]
I think this is a much, much, much darker story and not at all comparable in an 'achieve the same end result' way. I think it would be incredibly hard to write this without it becoming about stockholm syndrome. I'm not even sure that line could be walked, while staying true to your outline.


SperoWolf! I will read anything else you write with sufficiently large NSFW warnings, but if there is a next time... please try harder. You're plenty cohesive in your on-board discourse; prose is harder, but clearly within reach for you. Though I understand well how hard it is to write with your hands over your eyes.

Thanks again for writing this; I remain appreciative of the core concept, the story structure, and Song. And the next time someone complains about Trace and Flora not having chemistry, I get to say 'Well, maybe he's gay :P'
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