NSFW | Indwelling V2 - A TK Slash Fic

[Dadrobit]

Response time!

it's a big enough hammer to hit Trace with to get him to admit his feelings,

I'm going to pull this line here as I feel it explains a lot of where our contention originates. It's a difference in our theories as to how to create a story. You prefer a hammer and anvil and using powerful strikes to shape the iron into the story, whereas I prefer to use a hammer and chisel to chip away at the stone to find the story hidden within.

I understand your point and how it can work and does work for your intentions, but I will disagree simply based on personal story formulation preferences.

and it gives him a bye from infidelity to Flora.

That right there is your best argument against my own version. Indeed it would be very difficult to explain to Flora, especially as she just had his child. However it could also add to the story's morally grey composition as something that is a fleshed out aspect, but is never explained to be expressly right or wrong by the author, and is instead left to the reader to decide.

I actually think SperoWolf displays very good sense in how the story is structured. (This, of course, means that it suits my sensibilities for such things. I'm not claiming objective arbiter status.)

Again, see the above on differences of opinion.

the spacing of smut scenes to consider.

I agree and disagree. For a straight smut story and something that is simply written for the sake of the smut, yeah diving right in and getting to the point is fun and engaging for both the author and the reader. But my intentions were to change the focus more on the romance with Song and the smut being the eventual payoff while instead using the harshness of the initial punishment as my initial engagement with the reader.

The starting point of the story is one where armies have been amassed, so I think it's reasonable to say that the call would have went out far enough. Demand also outrstipped supply, so I don't think more could have been accomplished with the depicted form of punishment

I agree with you here, and it's where I feel the orgy really falls short. I don't think the orgy comes anywhere near supplying compensation for the demand of punishment.

Not even if it was your karmic punishment for (very) unsportsmanlike conduct?

Hah!

In some rather interesting ways. Consider the likely varied reactions of humanity at large, and also the possible implications of needing to explain to his commiserating friends that he actually rather liked it.

It would most certainly go down in history as "The Cringe Felt 'Round The World!"

I'd say this orgy was exceedingly consensual.

I'm not entirely sure I agree with you here. He "agreed" to it in the same way any other prisoner "agrees" to life in prison versus death row. Agreeing to do something because you're in a do or die situation isn't really consensual in my book. However, in this case Trace certainly does seem to go into it with gusto...

I think this is a much, much, much darker story and not at all comparable in an 'achieve the same end result' way.

Allow me to reiterate.

My main concern in writing this response is to stay as close to the original summary/plot as possible, while at the same time nearly changing it entirely to further explain the intimacy between Trace and Song.

My intention was to keep to the highly skeleton-ized plot summary I had posted earlier, but through an admittedly nearly completely different manner.

I think it would be incredibly hard to write this without it becoming about stockholm syndrome. I'm not even sure that line could be walked, while staying true to your outline.

Ahwwwwww, and here I was just trying to further enhance the romance aspects of the story while suggesting something about the duality of man, (or Keidran?) and you gotta come up in here with Stockholm Syndrome?

Buzzkill man, buzzkill...

Although.

Now that you mention it...

If someone were to create a really well written psychological horror/thriller of Trace being forced to explore his sexuality through his confinement by the wolves where you get to watch him descend into Stockholm Syndrome madness Heart of Darkness style...

You know, the kind of story that makes you shudder with moral revulsion and has you mumbling, "oh no, no, no" under your breathe nearly every three lines by the end?

I would read the ever loving [censored] outta that!

And now onto SperoWolf!

I'm legitimately surprised it was even as good as it ended up being, and I think my carrot-level skills would be spent better on actual stories rather than trying to constantly justify this as a story. I've been thinking of something with Keith, but I'm not jumping into writing again without even thinking through what it is I'm trying to create. As helpful as your reply was, I think I'll be leaving this as is. It was a start, at least. I can't remember the last time I actually did a second draft of something, and feel like it helped me improve

The fact of the matter is that every story that you do write, and then go back and re-write making it better through further drafting, is what will best enhance your skills as a writer.

Doing second drafts does two majorly good things. First, it helps your presentation with the actual story at hand. And second, by going back and reading what you've written, and then not only acknowledging your mistakes but fixing them as well, you'll have those mistakes engraved in your mind so that you won't continue making them in your subsequent stories. It doesn't matter if it's romance or murder mystery, further drafting your stories will always help more than just doing another one.

Think of it like all those crap "artists" you see posting the same flatly colored, stiffly positioned, emotionless characters on their "art" pages day in and day out for sometimes years on end, (manga artist wannabees are notorious for this) and how they never seem to get any better. It's because they just keep doing the same things over and over investing their time entirely in rote repetition rather than trying to alter and improve. The same holds true for writing: if you just keep writing without thinking about how you've written, your improvement will be at a snails pace where it shouldn't.

And I certainly don't want to see that with you. Already with what you've written here, you've demonstrated a fair amount of potential, and even your "carrot-level skills" far outstrip a fair number of others on this board. It's like what amenon said, with a bit more investment into your stories, you could do some really awesome work.

[amenon]

I'm going to pull this line here as I feel it explains a lot of where our contention originates. It's a difference in our theories as to how to create a story. You prefer a hammer and anvil and using powerful strikes to shape the iron into the story, whereas I prefer to use a hammer and chisel to chip away at the stone to find the story hidden within.

It's not my preference (I'm very tool-agnostic, really), it's just what I felt best described what was done here. A hammer can be very expedient if you need to make this big a correction and don't want to spend an entire novel doing it

That right there is your best argument against my own version. Indeed it would be very difficult to explain to Flora, especially as she just had his child. However it could also add to the story's morally grey composition as something that is a fleshed out aspect, but is never explained to be expressly right or wrong by the author, and is instead left to the reader to decide.

I think it could be done long-form, though it would get complicated. I mostly meant that it couldn't really be done in the one-week span of this story, and that's another reason why the orgy 'should' come first.

I'm not entirely sure I agree with you here. He "agreed" to it in the same way any other prisoner "agrees" to life in prison versus death row. Agreeing to do something because you're in a do or die situation isn't really consensual in my book. However, in this case Trace certainly does seem to go into it with gusto...

It's that old chestnut about how you can still choose your fate. For the life in prison analogue, a prisoner could easily agree that yes, that is what they deserve and what should happen.

I.e., he faced his punishment. With some ulterior motives, but eh, good for him I say

My intention was to keep to the highly skeleton-ized plot summary I had posted earlier, but through an admittedly nearly completely different manner.

Ah, yes. I see where my train of thought took the wrong track now. Sorry about that.

Ahwwwwww, and here I was just trying to further enhance the romance aspects of the story while suggesting something about the duality of man, (or Keidran?) and you gotta come up in here with Stockholm Syndrome?

Buzzkill man, buzzkill...

No, I mean, I do see the story you're going for, but I think the parameters would need to be relaxed. Like, the whole cage and chains bit could be a bit of a show. Though if I did it myself, I don't think it would be about parading him around anyway [because that kind of 'fake' appease the masses bit would be a bit too cynical for my tastes]; more something along the lines of him having to perform some menial task(s) at all the Keidran villages. And he'd have Song with him, of course, and some guards, and along the way he would get to witness the Keidran way of living...

Y'know?

Although.

Now that you mention it...

If someone were to create a really well written psychological horror/thriller of Trace being forced to explore his sexuality through his confinement by the wolves where you get to watch him descend into Stockholm Syndrome madness Heart of Darkness style...

You know, the kind of story that makes you shudder with moral revulsion and has you mumbling, "oh no, no, no" under your breathe nearly every three lines by the end?

I would read the ever loving [censored] outta that!

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah.

I... might read that. But it'd have to be just about best written thing I've ever seen. Like, 'Robin Hobb, eat your heart out' good. And probably not even then

---

But yeah, we are on the edge of veering from Indwelling to full on 'the theoretical space of Trace/Song romances (and/or horror)', so I shall be backing off this track.

Edit: And for the enduring record, I still prefer Indwelling to the stuff we've been kicking around -- not least because it actually exists. Ideas are cheap, execution costs

[Dadrobit]

No, I mean, I do see the story you're going for, but I think the parameters would need to be relaxed. Like, the whole cage and chains bit could be a bit of a show. Though if I did it myself, I don't think it would be about parading him around anyway [because that kind of 'fake' appease the masses bit would be a bit too cynical for my tastes]; more something along the lines of him having to perform some menial task(s) at all the Keidran villages. And he'd have Song with him, of course, and some guards, and along the way he would get to witness the Keidran way of living...

Y'know?

Yeah, unquestionably, this wouldn't be something I would see you writing going off of what I've seen before. Should it have been written, I certainly could see the characters transforming and moving away from the harshness of the original punishment and moving to the "this is Keidran life" delineation through taking part of the village activities. Furthermore it would more clearly show the growing bonds between himself and the guard(s) by actually doing something during the day other than being target practice for rotten tomatoes.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah.

I... might read that. But it'd have to be just about best written thing I've ever seen. Like, 'Robin Hobb, eat your heart out' good. And probably not even then

Indeed, this would NOT be something I would ask for from Spero.

Sorry man, but a novella or mores worth of that dialogue... I don't think my teeth could take it...

Edit: And for the enduring record, I still prefer Indwelling to the stuff we've been kicking around -- not least because it actually exists. Ideas are cheap, execution costs

Don't look at me. I don't think we'll be seeing any Dadrobit smut for some time. Or at least until I've ingested enough Bourbon and bad ideas first.