Last Man Posting

[Technic[Bot]]

That reminds me that a lot of people complain of the books they are forced to read through school. In fact once this professional writer was giving a talk in my university (Paco Ignacio Taibo II) and said that "Forced reading kills all the pleasure of reading".
I kinda have to agree all these attempt to make the boys read are well intentioned but more often than not cause them to simply despise reading fortunately I was not force to read that much either. Which was good because at the end of the day I am not a very avid reader so if i had been force to read the classics I would have probably forsook reading entirely.
This also applies to creative writing, drawing and probably musical instruments. These should be optional classes as a lot of people are simply not interested in writing professionally or drawing or the artistic endeavor in general. Mea culpa.
However i do think they should make us write at school. not novels, stories. Just teaching us how to write properly because at the end of the day the only way to learn how to write is, well by writting. You might not now, or care, how to draw and that is completely fine. But you most definitely need to know how to write decently.

I've only written for school projects where there are limitations and you have to watch what you write because it might forever change your classmates' impressions of you for better but usually for worst. I don't think I've ever written a story outside of school, If I did though it would probably be pretty mediocre, then again don't know till you try. Almost want to write one now... My hand is pretty shakey-mistakey and hurts after only 5 minutes of continuous writing but it's good enough to have the best handwriting out of all the guys. My art is heavily luck-based a.k.a. I have no idea wtf I'm doing.

Most school related projects tend to be quite bland as most people are actually afraid of what other people might think of their writing so some people even develop a sanitized writing style only for homework and projects.

[Hayate]

So many words just to be winning

[Bellhead]

He has a point though. ('he', right?) I legitimately enjoyed telling stories, and I still remember early on when I would write as elegantly as I could, to tell the story better. At some points, I even asked about ways to improve it, focusing on the subtleties of complex passages.

Then high school happened, and "good" writing meant jack. Teachers stopped caring about skill and elegance, and focused on information content alone. I used to write essays literally a single paragraph long, and a whole page. It read so smoothly, I couldn't break it up. Full marks, minus points for no "and as shown, evidence supports conclusion" paragraph at the end.

Some of what I'd consider my best work was proudly shared by my teachers, but received low grades because of this.

From my perspective, they've turned from a subjective, case-by-case approach to writing into machined, grey, emotionless uniformity where they deduct points for lack of creativity. Seems they assume creativity can be implanted, and copied.


Hayate, it's worth it. This is basically the general chat thread, and we're all crazy from quarantine anyway.

[Kellard]

Really waiting for this to blow over. I never went out, but college kept me busy and sane.

[Neutral Smith]

So many people posting between my last post and this...

[AnApocalypticLime]

ah yes. forced reading is amazing. As a person who only reads fiction (and realistic fiction at best), you can imagine my face when my group wants to read Anne Frank, and then none of them even like the book themselves after reading 5 entries. forced writing I can sometimes enjoy but forced art is horrible I absolutely hate it and have always thought it's a horrible topic to "grade" because of how subjective it is

(also neutral I don't think you missed that much, mostly just us complaining about the school system)

[Technic[Bot]]

He has a point though. ('he', right?) I legitimately enjoyed telling stories, and I still remember early on when I would write as elegantly as I could, to tell the story better. At some points, I even asked about ways to improve it, focusing on the subtleties of complex passages.

Then high school happened, and "good" writing meant jack. Teachers stopped caring about skill and elegance, and focused on information content alone. I used to write essays literally a single paragraph long, and a whole page. It read so smoothly, I couldn't break it up. Full marks, minus points for no "and as shown, evidence supports conclusion" paragraph at the end.

Some of what I'd consider my best work was proudly shared by my teachers, but received low grades because of this.

From my perspective, they've turned from a subjective, case-by-case approach to writing into machined, grey, emotionless uniformity where they deduct points for lack of creativity. Seems they assume creativity can be implanted, and copied.

Hayate, it's worth it. This is basically the general chat thread, and we're all crazy from quarantine anyway.

Me? Yes I am male.
I think the problem is that grading writing, or any artistic stuff, must be done in a individual case by cases basis. Which is sadly unfeasible in most schools. Most teaches do not have that amount of time. So most default to evaluating format, grammar and content. Stuff that is easier to grade. I am not sure there is a better way though as I said there are not enough resources to do personalized teaching and not that many people are actually interested in writing. Besides there are whole degrees about writing and literature for those really interested.
I have always found that trying to force interest in the syllabus int students is pointless. If they like a topic then cool they will reach out themselves. If not well lets just give him whatever he needs to operate in his daily life and call it a day.
And yes chatting around here, given that the general chat thread is death. Is pretty fun!

ah yes. forced reading is amazing. As a person who only reads fiction (and realistic fiction at best), you can imagine my face when my group wants to read Anne Frank, and then none of them even like the book themselves after reading 5 entries. forced writing I can sometimes enjoy but forced art is horrible I absolutely hate it and have always thought it's a horrible topic to "grade" because of how subjective it is

(also neutral I don't think you missed that much, mostly just us complaining about the school system)

Hating on the school system has always been pretty popular. Sadly I do not expect it to change anytime soon. Not only we have little resources to actually change it we also do not have a better alternative yet. And on top of that the current school system has been "working" for the last hundred years, so a lot of people are not particulary eager to change to another not so proven idea.

[AnApocalypticLime]

au contraire, while your last point about people being unwilling to change so easily is true, there is a better alternative and there are enough resources. I actually saw a ted talks video about this the other night with Sal Khan (creator of Khan academy) that goes more in-depth and explains it better but basically he talks about how the way the current school system works leaves kids with "gaps" in their memory from things that they struggled with, instead of working to master the concept they struggled with. They just moved on to the next topic in the curriculum and the gap always stayed like that, leaving adults who (without practice) still struggled and about how it creates a bad foundation for further learning. He also talks about how with technology and websites like IXL and Khan academy we now have the resources to teach kids at their own pace so they learn everything. Not to say this method doesn't have any flaws but I think it's definitely a step-up from what we have now.

[Kellard]

I'm just gonna...

[Bellhead]

Just gonna what? What'chu just gonna?

[Neutral Smith]

There won't be a (last post for a few days) winner in a long time I guess, so he is not gonna be that.

[Technic[Bot]]

au contraire, while your last point about people being unwilling to change so easily is true, there is a better alternative and there are enough resources. I actually saw a ted talks video about this the other night with Sal Khan (creator of Khan academy) that goes more in-depth and explains it better but basically he talks about how the way the current school system works leaves kids with "gaps" in their memory from things that they struggled with, instead of working to master the concept they struggled with. They just moved on to the next topic in the curriculum and the gap always stayed like that, leaving adults who (without practice) still struggled and about how it creates a bad foundation for further learning. He also talks about how with technology and websites like IXL and Khan academy we now have the resources to teach kids at their own pace so they learn everything. Not to say this method doesn't have any flaws but I think it's definitely a step-up from what we have now.

I am not particular convinced of online learning.
Do not get me wrong Khan academy is great and I have used it myself. It is specially good , as you mention, to help bridge any gaps any student may have with the syllabus. But Khan academy is a non-profit.
I think the real push behind online classes and MOOC is to increase profits. Sites like coursera, udacity, MasterClass , skillshare, brilliant bla,bla,bla are order of magnitude cheaper than running a real school. Specially in the case of higher education. Also most often than not the courses offered are small on a very specific topic. Good if you want to get some specialized knowledge on a very small area. And despite being cheaper for the end-user i think they do not offer as much value as more traditional form of learning.
On top of that most of schools have been force online due to the current lockdown, I do not take classes myself anymore but every student I know says that they are completely worthless. As professors do not know how to use online platforms and only leave homework and reading assignments.

[Bellhead]

And despite being cheaper for the end-user i think they do not offer as much value as more traditional form of learning.
On top of that most of schools have been force online due to the current lockdown, I do not take classes myself anymore but every student I know says that they are completely worthless. As professors do not know how to use online platforms and only leave homework and reading assignments.

As far as value is concerned, it's a coin flip. No physical classrooms means no direct interaction, but also no major real estate overhead, whereas brick and mortar means commuting one way or another, and an opportunity for face to face communication with instructors and students alike..

That said, either platform requires people to know how to teach with it. When I was in college, there was a stigma that classes were meaningless. If you want to learn, spend your life savings on books and a room for 4 years and teach yourself, because your instructors literally couldn't care less. College, by the words of many who graduated, "is for parties and drinking, because nobody teaches you anything else". In that sense, online is far better.

But on the other hand, online learning severely limits the learning experience, as well as socialization. Physical schools have a much greater capacity for that, it's just that nobody gives a damn about it.

[AnApocalypticLime]

I don't think it would be like that. You would go to a physical school, but take classes based on your placement test and instead of having teachers hand out specific tests to specific students and kill a ton of time. They can just let the computer do the work. the staff would just make sure kids are paying attention, help them with anything the videos failed to teach them, and just being there for emergencies. One of the major flaws though is that government indoctrination could be a lot easier with this. not saying that will happen, but all governments of all nations are very uncertain and It could happen.

[Kellard]