The furry fandom and your opinion on it. Descusion thread.

[minime]

I am one of the many tigers on this forum.

[Rafe]

Professor Rafe's Lecture Time:
I go to lots of cons, have plenty of friends in the fandom, but I've never had the urge to try a fursuit or even a tail. I do love the art and stories, though. My involvement in furry culture comes more from the fact that I've always been fascinated by the emotional connection people seem to have with anthropomorphic creatures. It's as if stripping the humanness from a character instantly makes them much more easy to relate to, and to feel for emotionally. Even cartoon humans seem to have this baggage that gets in the way of relating to them. Like music, when created by a someone with talent, and assuming you have any ability to suspend disbelief at all, the animal characters seem to send their emotions right to your soul. Tom's characters in Two Kinds are good examples of this - especially in the very realistic way they have to face and deal with truly painful things in their lives.

Furthermore, websites like FurAffinity tend to have roughly 30% of all their content listed as "Adult" or "Mature," much higher than 0.1%.
These are just little stats I threw together on 2 minutes of searching. Again, just Google the word "Furry" and it's easy to see.

Saying there is something wrong with the furry comunity is like saying its something wrong with the books of our Childhood.

I think it's more appropriate to say the childhood book's characters have been made wrong by the Furry community

There is a big misconception that I more or less have devoted myself to revealing: There has been serious ADULT furry art and stories for centuries. One of the most influential works of literature in the last 1000 years was the epic poem (more than 60,000 lines) called Le Roman de Renart, Reineke Fuchs, Reinaert de Vos (in French, German and Dutch, respectively). In English, it's Reynard the Fox. And it is filled with such things as graphic violence, dramatic courtroom scenes, humorous foreign stereotypes, shocking jabs at the church and nobility, and of course, sex - graphic descriptions of adulterous liasons, humorous rape scenes, erectile dysfunction, and all kinds of fetishes you wouldn't have thought were widely known at the time. This was all written between 1175 and 1250 A.D., copied and illustrated by hand in an age when putting something into a book was only done with the most valuable works. When Caxton started printing the first books in English, in 1481, the forth book ever to be printed in English was a "Historye of Reynard the Foxe". It's been used by Chaucer, Shakespeare, Goethe and Don Bluth (Chanticleer was a Renard character 900 years before Rock-a-Doodle). The very name "Renard" became the French word for fox. And Renamon can thank Renard for her name.

More recently (in 1920), there was a furry comic about a vixen named Sharp-Ears. Not some G-rated kids story, it reads like something you'd find on the internet today - full of risque humor, disgusting earthy pranks, pre-marital sex, and some serious emotional pain. It became so popular that it was made into a novel (which has NEVER been out of print), was turned into one of the best-loved operas of the last 100 years by Leos Janacek, and finally into a movie in 2005 by the BBC. Serious adult furry fiction can become mainstream when it's this good.

Quick summary - Sharp-Ears the vixen is captured as a youngster and raised as a pet by a forester. However, the forester's wife doesn't like her, the children tease her, the dog lusts after her, and finally, the when the chickens insult her - she starts killing them. When she's discovered she escapes to the forest. Sharp-Ears is not exactly likable. She's manipulative and a control-freak. She goes back and steals food from the forester's house. She takes a den from a badger in a using her 'femininity' in very disgusting way. But she starts to change - she thinks of all the the things she's done, and realizes that no one loves her, and how alone she is. She's also maturing sexually, and is confused and scared by it. With all this going on, she meets a muscular, handsome male fox ("Dear God!, He's so Gorgeous!", she says to herself) and starts to let her guard down. She also starts having disturbing sexual fantasies. An excerpt:

"Sharp-Ears Has Impure Thoughts"

[Sharp-Ears] slipped into bed. But she could not fall asleep. She lay on her back, smoothed out her tail, and stretched all four legs.
"Am I really pretty?" she asked herself. "What is nice about me?"
She was sorry that he had kissed the tip of her tail, where she had the ugly scar from the forester's trap. With shaking paws she gently touched her breast and turned over again. But her thoughts gave her no peace. She sat up, examined her whole figure with curiosity, and with a strict glance measured her hips. She smiled happily.
"I'm not that bad, after all."
She began to doze off contentedly when suddenly her eyes stared again. Some very strange fantasies had begun to plague her. Her head was full of wonderfully beautiful but at the same time horribly repulsive thoughts. God knows where they were coming from. Shame brought tears to her eyes. Why, she had caught herself puckering up her lips in sleep as "fie!" as if she were trying to kiss someone!
She picked up some pebbles and began to pray fervently, as Mama Fox had taught her. She said as many Our Fathers as there
were pebbles.
Calmed at last, she dozed off into a chaste sleep.

"Chaste sleep" - I love that description.
So, just because it's not something you would necessarily bring up to your grandchildren, don't think it hasn't been there for every generation - for some people, anyway. Have a panel of the comic.

[Warrl]

Professor Rafe's Lecture Time:One of the most influential works of literature in the last 1000 years was the epic poem (more than 60,000 lines) called Le Roman de Renart, Reineke Fuchs, Reinaert de Vos (in French, German and Dutch, respectively). In English, it's Reynard the Fox.

And in fact the same Reynard is a major character in the webcomic Gunnerkrigg Court.

(He's now a wolf due to magic.)

[Rafe]

And in fact the same Reynard is a major character in the webcomic Gunnerkrigg Court.

(He's now a wolf due to magic.)

I've read some of Gunnerkrigg Court. Not sure if you knew it or not, but Ysengrin the wolf also comes from Renard.



His dislike of Renard is one of the major subplots in the story. It all goes back to a love triangle between Ysengrin. Renard, and Ysengrin's wife the she-wolf Hersent. Unusually, it wasn't Renard who started it, but Hersent who seduced Renard. It seems Renard had been caught stealing chickens from a monastery and was looking for a place to hide out. Knowing Ysengrin was at the king's court, he went Ysengrin's home to hide. Once he got inside he was surprised to find Hersent was home. In fact he "almost goes through the floor out of fear and shame" when he saw the wolf. Turns out Hersent was in a good mood and is rather pleased to see him - that is, she was, until the nervous fox explains that he was scared of her husband, because Ysengrin suspected that she was being unfaithful to him, and Renard was the chief suspect. Hersent, gets really upset at this, but then decides she likes the idea. She gets Renard to sit with her on her bed and give her a kiss, which leads to more kissing, and before you know it

"Hersent a la cuisse haucie
A qui plaisoit mout son ator."

<Hersent opens her thighs for him, quite pleased with the situation.>

Despite being married to the vixen Hermaline, and having pretty much as many short-term sexual encounters as he can manage, Renard finds Hersent irresistibly beautiful, maybe because she is as devious and as excellent a liar as he is.

[Ja3k_Frost]

I've always been fascinated by the emotional connection people seem to have with anthropomorphic creatures. It's as if stripping the humanness from a character instantly makes them much more easy to relate to, and to feel for emotionally. Even cartoon humans seem to have this baggage that gets in the way of relating to them. Like music, when created by a someone with talent, and assuming you have any ability to suspend disbelief at all, the animal characters seem to send their emotions right to your soul. Tom's characters in Two Kinds are good examples of this - especially in the very realistic way they have to face and deal with truly painful things in their lives. -prof. Rafe

Wow. I like this a lot. =^.^=

Personally from my firsthand high school experience I would like to add that to the people I have met the furry fandom has been labeled an obsession to them, that they put more effort into their art or furry appearance then to their schooling or other social activities. But the main thing i want to add is that although these people are labeled as furries they have another underlying factor that brings them together and that is their devotion to it. I think that being labeled as obsessive may have a different idea that isnt noticed nearly as much. Maybe its just that these people i have met are EXTREMELY friendly and outgoing but they all fit the obsessive category that high-schoolers are labeled as.

Enough of my banter, what I am trying to say is that people who are obsessive about things don't end at Rafe's human anthro connection. Between all the people I know (myself included) who are DEFINITELY obsessive about a certain subject (not including OCD or grammer nazis) they all have something in common, and that is either a single pinpoint traumatic experience or a slow but painful time that they want behind them. If I haven't just went out and said it already I think that people may use certain subjects of reality to help repair or compensate a painful experience(s). Be it Anthros, tanks, a culture, video games, or something else.

That said, is there a correlation between the most vocal Anthro fans and traumatic experiences? Also what makes the Anthro community so stereotyped?
(I have a hinting suspicion it has something to do with the fact that its easy to put boobs on an anthro fox as apposed to a tank... actually I don't really want to think about that.)
As always if this doesn't make sense at all I can try to elaborate

-Ja3k

[Tesla Foxtrot]

either a single pinpoint traumatic experience or a slow but painful time that they want behind them. If I haven't just went out and said it already I think that people may use certain subjects of reality to help repair or compensate a painful experience

You hit the Nail pretty hard, let's just say that my hole life been a mess. nothing to do with my parents.
It's actually more or less today I can say my Life is good. I reached my first goal in Life, which were one of the things that actually did I'm still here. (take it the way you want)
Reason(s): some knows, some dont, thats part of Life, its earned, not given
There is Always a reason behind what we do, like I said. I were once a furry hater,Look at me!
Its our mind combined with the butterfly effect that makes is the path in life. As long we don't choose, the oppertunity will be open.
Same goes with fandoms. There is a reason why we enter them, just a choice, a memory, a Connection, a path. Something is it. And its hard wired in the stuff we don't know about.

If you want to understand, Watch: Mr.Nobody, you might not understand that Movie either

[Winter-huntsman]

Are any of the cons any good. I'm not old enough to go to one by my self so I have to have my parents approve some for me to go with but they don't know I'm a furry and they probaly think it's strange, what I'm reLy asking is it worth it to exsplain to them to be able to go to one of the conventions.

[Ja3k_Frost]

I don't know, do we even count as a fandom? The other fandoms I know have some sort of "holy bible" when it comes to what they are. The Trekkies have their movies and tv series, same for the star wars fans, the Japan fans have anime, manga, and rich history to back it all up. Maybe this is where the furry culture is lacking in a definitive book or movie that every kid and parent understands and can say "Hey, I understand better now!". Difference being that instead of the movie/book making the fanbase, it would be the fanbase that makes the book/movie, take one look through the writing section and understand that as a community we could come up with some truly epic [censored]. Are we all just animal loving artists residing somewhere between obsession and devotion in this corner of the twilight zone reality? And if that stereotype is wrong do we have the balls as a community to come up with something better?

As for your conventions, if your parents aren't going to go with you then I shouldn't think they really need to know what your going to be doing there other than hanging out with friends, although Ive never been to one myself so I cant say for sure...

-Ja3k

[Kaz]

I don't know, do we even count as a fandom? The other fandoms I know have some sort of "holy bible" when it comes to what they are. The Trekkies have their movies and tv series, same for the star wars fans, the Japan fans have anime, manga, and rich history to back it all up. Maybe this is where the furry culture is lacking in a definitive book or movie that every kid and parent understands and can say "Hey, I understand better now!". Difference being that instead of the movie/book making the fanbase, it would be the fanbase that makes the book/movie, take one look through the writing section and understand that as a community we could come up with some truly epic [censored]. Are we all just animal loving artists residing somewhere between obsession and devotion in this corner of the twilight zone reality? And if that stereotype is wrong do we have the balls as a community to come up with something better?

As for your conventions, if your parents aren't going to go with you then I shouldn't think they really need to know what your going to be doing there other than hanging out with friends, although Ive never been to one myself so I cant say for sure...

-Ja3k

Twokinds. 'Nuff said.

[Tesla Foxtrot]

Are any of the cons any good. I'm not old enough to go to one by my self so I have to have my parents approve some for me to go with but they don't know I'm a furry and they probaly think it's strange, what I'm reLy asking is it worth it to exsplain to them to be able to go to one of the conventions.

Don't bother telling them if don't want ofcouse, I been Reading twokinds for 3-4 years, mine don't care the only moment i actually asked something
related *damit bug*
to 2/TK did it end with a longer conversation about muney than the actuall book. And when I have pages on the screen and they see they simply ask what that is and/or makes a joke about the pannel, and thats it.
I can't tell on your part. But I belive they will probably understand, after all, they can't kick you out of the house and they will also forget about it.

[Damien203]

I think that people may use certain subjects of reality to help repair or compensate a painful experience(s). Be it Anthros, tanks, a culture, video games, or something else.

True, very true. I include myself on that, life in school can be hard.

Twokinds. 'Nuff said.

Not quite, TK is not so famous to be called "the representative" of the furry fandom.
Ja3k has the point on that one, the fandom needs something even bigger.
And since the X% of it do sexual related artwork, people will see the fandom as something marginal.
In order to change that idea, a big and famous artist, movie, sportsman/woman,... must play that role.
It's shameful how easily someone can be forgotten/ignored if he is a "Nobody".

[Warrl]

Personally from my firsthand high school experience I would like to add that to the people I have met the furry fandom has been labeled an obsession to them, that they put more effort into their art or furry appearance then to their schooling or other social activities.

When I was in high school, I noticed the same thing... about "jocks".

(I have a hinting suspicion it has something to do with the fact that its easy to put boobs on an anthro fox as apposed to a tank... actually I don't really want to think about that.)

Go check out Grrl Power. They have several tanks with boobs.

[Ja3k_Frost]

Im just throwing out a guess but im gonna go with "you're not currently in high-school, huh"

Atleast for me it seems pretty far fetched that the jocks would be labeled as obsessive, or that anyone has the guts to say that. But if there was a time when Kyle Bantam who could throw a football (and a nerd) clear across the football field was labeled as obsessive, which that obsessive label has been transferred down the line to apparently the furries, then maybe there is hope for a new social group to take the heat? not that that is a good thing at all but it diverts the attention away from our quirks that only we understand.

If your getting the message to go hate on whatever new fad has just surfaced then this has obviously rubbed your fur the wrong way (See what I did there?) , what I AM saying is that this could just be something we grow out of... eventually.

-Ja3k

[Tesla Foxtrot]

Only time I will grow out of this, is when I get a girlfriend, which will be never (due to big reasons)
Yesterday I dunno how much Fur stuff I did when I found out the girl that have more or less kept me alive want just to be friends.
And I jumped over many barriers I put up in this Fur Community.
We Always grow out of the stuff we like.

Furries is an Obsessive thing? I think not, its a matter of choise. You either are a furry or not.
Look at Mark etc.
How much do he look like a guy that have the fur fandom? Not much I would say, even if he stated it himself in a video that he do.
Even if all we see is him playing games

[The Rookie]

Are any of the cons any good. I'm not old enough to go to one by my self so I have to have my parents approve some for me to go with but they don't know I'm a furry and they probaly think it's strange, what I'm reLy asking is it worth it to exsplain to them to be able to go to one of the conventions.

I have a friend over in the US who went to one of these furry conventions last year. He said he enjoyed himself, but said the event had this air of awkwardness about it with the majority of participants being first time conventionest or really there just to explore the fandom and see if it's for them. I've never really looked into them much myself, but from my understanding they're similar to most other conventions like ComicCon, just smaller and specifically furry related.

As for whether to discuss this with your parents or not, I'd side more with delaying the conversation at this stage considering your age. I have the feeling that unless you're particularly persuasive or your parents are very understanding people, a quick Google search on furries would likely shut the conversation down rather quickly and lead to more awkward conversation soon after.