Building New computer. Many questions.

[SirSlaughter]

OK, Rather than start a new topic and fill up the tech board I thought i would delete and edit my post so I can bump without doubleposting...but in the process due to it being the first post it deleted the topic entirely...so either way I am doubleposting? um...sorry?

So here we go.

I have done a lot of research and found the motherboard that I need.

Dual channel memory
p67 chipset to get the most out of my processor
LGA 1155 processor slot so I can put an i3,i5, or an i7 2600k
2 pci express 2.0 X16 slots with an SLI bridge connection to allow 2 graphics cards.
and plenty of usb slots because I like them.


well with all that said and done I found a few but Now I have a new question. Something you guys might like to answer. I was looking at 2 different MSI boards and I noticed there was a tiny price difference and there was one thing i could tell that was different.

One of them had UEFI BIOS. What is this and why would I want it. It's a $7 dollar difference between the 2 but now I am curious.

[philip284]

Here is a wiki page on it http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unified_Ex ... _Interface
It is a more secure replacement for the older bios
But you would want it because it is not vulnerable to bootkit malware and allows bigger hard drives.

[RobbieThe1st]

Couple of things:
One, it's not worth getting two video cards, unless you're planning to game with two or more screens. One high-end video card will do much better - You get /at best/ 50% more performance for adding a second card of the same performance level as your first card.

Two, uefi is indeed newer, but shouldn't be something you need to worry about as long as you go for a 64-bit version of windows(which is better anyway), because UEFI is /incompatible/ with the 32-bit version.
Personally, I'd go with the good, old BIOS version - it'll always work, and you don't have to worry about weird stuff. UEFI is just too new -- unless, of course, you want to mess with the system to make it work if it doesn't.

[SirSlaughter]

OK well than you. I took a look and I don't think the motherboard I am looking at will have it, If it does then...well I have something new to try. So long as I can get into my BIOS and get set up for overclocking I am fine. Although I have very limited experience I think I would probably prefer the old BIOS anyway

[SlowFag]

UEFI is nice, much easier to manage your hardware with it than BIOS. Especially since you can use your mouse in it.

But on another note, the P67 chipset does not support 2x PCI-E 2.0 16x slots. It only has 24 lanes (1 16x + 8 1x), so it will either run one slot at 16x or two slots at 8x. To get 16x/16x, you need to go with an X79 chipset and a Sandy Bridge-E processor. As mentioned previously, you're really better off with one high-end graphics card unless you can really afford to throw money at the issue.

You also didn't ask for advice on this, but I'm gonna throw some out there anyways.

1. Try to avoid MSI motherboards. They're not quite as bad as, say... ECS. But they're far from being considered quality. Saving a few bucks now only for the motherboard to die on you or cause a lot of headaches is not a good trade-off. Get Gigabyte, Asus, or ASRock if you can.
2. Assuming you're just going to be gaming, you will not see much benefit from an i7. Games in general don't make use of the hyperthreading that mostly seperates i7's from i5's, so you'll be spending extra cash for no real benefit. An i5-2500K is a real beast and will give you awesome performance in games for a relatively good price. Spend a few bucks on an aftermarket air cooler, and you can overclock it nicely for even more performance. Getting an i5 + SSD would also be a better use of your money in terms of performance/dollar than getting an i7.
3. I'd go for Z68 over P67. Z68 is everything that P67 is, but better. If you get a Z68 motherboard that supports Lucid Virtu, it can give you some more performance gain by allowing you to use a Sandy Bridge processor's onboard graphics in conjunction with a discrete graphics card.
4. Ivy Bridge will be released in April, which should let you get something cheaper/better if you wait. If you want to get your new hardware RFN, then fret not, Ivy Bridge will also be on the LGA 1155 socket, so you can upgrade later if you want.

[SirSlaughter]

Ok hold on, So I know that I already have a good high end graphics card. I got the Nvidia GeForce 560ti so I know I have something decent. Now I decided a bit ago to stay away from MSI boards anyway. Someone showed me an asus motherboard called the Sabertooth. Now I saw that like you said SlowFag, that it runs 2 cards at X8 speed.

So My next question is What is the difference between the X16 and X8 speeds? (I am guessing it runs at half power?). And seeing as I am looking t get a full blown monster anyway I can definitely wait for some newer stuff to come out.

Now the next question after that is What Chipset is best to get the most out of my processor and still keep an option for an SLI config. I can wait to save So I would love to see a motherboard tat can do that. But as for the processor I can wait as well, But If I do want it right now I saw the i7 2700K on amazon for a nice price. But like I said I can wait, I would like a link or two for the new stuff so I can do research.

Edit: Ok I just looked here http://www.geforce.com/Optimize/Guides/ ... sli-system and was doing a bit of research. Well I can manage all that other stuff, But as for the case. I have an NZXT Phantom that is fresh out the box, But it says that I need other cases. Well I read the description of what the cases need and I think I fit the bill, I just want a second opinion.

[SlowFag]

Ok hold on, So I know that I already have a good high end graphics card. I got the Nvidia GeForce 560ti so I know I have something decent. Now I decided a bit ago to stay away from MSI boards anyway. Someone showed me an asus motherboard called the Sabertooth. Now I saw that like you said SlowFag, that it runs 2 cards at X8 speed.

So My next question is What is the difference between the X16 and X8 speeds? (I am guessing it runs at half power?). And seeing as I am looking t get a full blown monster anyway I can definitely wait for some newer stuff to come out.

Now the next question after that is What Chipset is best to get the most out of my processor and still keep an option for an SLI config. I can wait to save So I would love to see a motherboard tat can do that. But as for the processor I can wait as well, But If I do want it right now I saw the i7 2700K on amazon for a nice price. But like I said I can wait, I would like a link or two for the new stuff so I can do research.

A PCIe 2.0 x16 slot normally has 8 GB/s of bandwidth (500 MB/s per lane, 16 lanes). This is more than enough to make sure your graphics card gets all the data it needs to not get bottle-necked by its communications with the rest of the computer. However, Sandy Bridge/LGA 1155 chipsets can only dedicate those 16 lanes to graphics, and they only support up to PCIe 2.0. So if you want to do SLI/Crossfire, each card will only get 8 lanes (or 4 GB/s of data). On higher end cards, this is slow enough that they won't get all the data they need fast enough, and you won't get the full performance out of the card.

PCIe 3.0 supports up to 1 GB/s per lane, so if you have an x16 slot running at x8, you are still getting the full performance of a PCIe 2.0 x16 slot. However, most Sandy Bridge processors do not support PCIe 3.0; generally only the server models/Sandy Bridge-E/LGA 2011 and LGA 1366 chips. The usual Sandy Bridge chips on the LGA 1155 socket only support PCIe 2.0.

Sabertooth is a model line for Asus. The Sabertooth P67 is like all other LGA 1155 boards that I described above, only x16 or x8/x8. The Sabertooth X79, however, is an LGA 2011 board. It will not support an i7-2700K. You'd need to buy a Sandy Bridge-E processor, like an i7-3820/3930K/3960X/3980X. IMO, with the Sabertooth you're paying extra for name and appearance, and not necessarily getting your money's worth for performance.

If you are dead set on getting a dual GPU setup, just wait for Ivy Bridge. An Ivy Bridge processor with a Z75 or Z77 chipset will get you 2x PCIe 3.0 x16 slots that can handle two high end graphics cards without bottle-necking (even though they are running at x8).

[SirSlaughter]

Ok, by any chance do you have any idea or have heard of when the Ivy is to be released? and I am curious if a pci express 2.0 graphics card is compatible with a 3.0? If not...then poop.

Edit: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6813157269 Would this be a good piece to invest in by any chance?

[Lief]

1. Try to avoid MSI motherboards. They're not quite as bad as, say... ECS. But they're far from being considered quality. Saving a few bucks now only for the motherboard to die on you or cause a lot of headaches is not a good trade-off. Get Gigabyte, Asus, or ASRock if you can.

See, I would've said the exact opposite. Haven't had any trouble with MSI motherboards, and yet I had an ASRock that was total garbage. I can, however, say that their support is good. But if you want good customer support over a working motherboard... But that's just personal experience. (A really [censored] one, at that. Three motherboards? All have the same issue? Hmm...) Personally, I'd just stick with an Asus or Gigabyte board.

Couple of things:
One, it's not worth getting two video cards, unless you're planning to game with two or more screens. One high-end video card will do much better - You get /at best/ 50% more performance for adding a second card of the same performance level as your first card.

As-per this, if you know how to price shop... You can get two EVGA GTX 560tis, for less than one EVGA GTX 580. And they'll outperform it. (This is after rebate, of course, but EVGA seems to be good about its rebates.)

Hm. This really doesn't help much, now that I read it all typed out. Oh well. Just thought I'd stick my 2 cents in, even if they have very little to do on the subject.

[aj]

I've also had bad experiences with 3 different MSI motherboards. All 3 were picky about RAM, and on two of them, the AGP slot completely and utterly failed.

A Gigabyte mobo, on the other hand, has been running 24x7 for the past 1.5 years, and my i7 is built around an Asus.

WRT to the Ivy Bridge... April 29th is the supposedly confirmed launch date for the i7 + some i5s, with June 3rd as the launch for the remining i5s. (Source)

[SlowFag]

Edit: Ok I just looked here http://www.geforce.com/Optimize/Guides/ ... sli-system and was doing a bit of research. Well I can manage all that other stuff, But as for the case. I have an NZXT Phantom that is fresh out the box, But it says that I need other cases. Well I read the description of what the cases need and I think I fit the bill, I just want a second opinion.

This link might also be known as, "How to give us all your money in exchange for [censored] you don't need." I suppose if you -want- to spend $1000 just in graphics cards, go for it?

Ok, by any chance do you have any idea or have heard of when the Ivy is to be released?

4. Ivy Bridge will be released in April, which should let you get something cheaper/better if you wait. If you want to get your new hardware RFN, then fret not, Ivy Bridge will also be on the LGA 1155 socket, so you can upgrade later if you want.

They been making Ivy Bridge chips since sometime last year, tentative release date is April, but it may be delayed a few weeks (or possibly months, but definitely sometime in Q2 2012) depending on marketing/to try to get Sandy Bridge stocks sold before they release.

and I am curious if a pci express 2.0 graphics card is compatible with a 3.0? If not...then poop.

Yes, they are compatible. Just as SATA I/II/III are all compatible.

See, I would've said the exact opposite. Haven't had any trouble with MSI motherboards, and yet I had an ASRock that was total garbage. I can, however, say that their support is good. But if you want good customer support over a working motherboard... But that's just personal experience. (A really [censored] one, at that. Three motherboards? All have the same issue? Hmm...) Personally, I'd just stick with an Asus or Gigabyte board.

ASRock, in the past, focused on the super-budget market, competing with ECS in the [censored] $50 motherboard department. A couple years back they began focusing their products on meeting the needs of the DIY market and trying to compete with Asus and Gigabyte. But yeah, as I said, ASRock, Asus, or Gigabyte; take your pick.

Edit: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6813157269 Would this be a good piece to invest in by any chance?

The ASRock Z68 Extreme series is well reviewed and generally pretty good; I went with a cheaper model in that line, myself.

Honestly, it sounds like you are just itching to blow $2000 on a computer without any real understanding of what you are buying, or where you're going to get actual performance from. It's certainly your right to spend your money as you please, but you're clinging to this dual graphics card thing without any articulable reason for why you want it. Same for an i7; most games will not use more than 2-3 cores. They are not heavily threaded, they will not make use of an i7's 8 cores (physically, only 4 cores, but hyperthreading makes it 8 logical cores). An i5 with 4 physical cores is more than plenty for handling most games. With the GTX 560 Ti you have now, an i5-2500K (~$200), 8 gigs of DDR3-1600 (~$50), a 120 gig SSD (~$150) and your choice of Asus/ASRock/Gigabyte motherboard ($125-200, but you can spend more if you really, really want to), you can basically play whatever you want with high/ultra graphics. If you don't have a good PSU already (Seasonic, Corsair, Antec, etc), then put in a 600-800W one for ~$100.

[SirSlaughter]

Thank you very much you guys This has helped me a lot and I have learned so much. I think I will just go with what everyone has suggested. I will most likely do the motherboard I linked and probably go with an i5 2500k for the overclocking ability Maybe an i7 2700k (a very small maybe) If I can ind a good price in comparison to the i5. I already have a good amount of memory but could do with an SSD, and I already have a corsair GS600, So power is just fine. I can settle with the single graphics card. And I suppose if I ever get the itch to upgrade later on in life I can always upgrade later on.

I mean I am already running at best graphics with good frames as is. I just needed a new case at first, But then the motherboard was not able to use the fans or anything that was in the case due to t being a pre-built computer board, So that was one reason i wanted a new motherboard. And the processor thing, Well seeing that my simple i3 can put so much power I can go with the i5. All in all I think this was a great learning experience just in case.


Last questions:

corsair vengeance ram, Is it worth it. I have seen great reviews and don't really want to run on stock ram anyway. If it isn't any other recommendations would be appreciated.
SSD, what's a good size to go with?
aftermarket CPU cooler, coolermaster 212?

Thank you yet again.

[SlowFag]

Thank you very much you guys This has helped me a lot and I have learned so much. I think I will just go with what everyone has suggested. I will most likely do the motherboard I linked and probably go with an i5 2500k for the overclocking ability Maybe an i7 2700k (a very small maybe) If I can ind a good price in comparison to the i5. I already have a good amount of memory but could do with an SSD, and I already have a corsair GS600, So power is just fine. I can settle with the single graphics card. And I suppose if I ever get the itch to upgrade later on in life I can always upgrade later on.

I mean I am already running at best graphics with good frames as is. I just needed a new case at first, But then the motherboard was not able to use the fans or anything that was in the case due to t being a pre-built computer board, So that was one reason i wanted a new motherboard. And the processor thing, Well seeing that my simple i3 can put so much power I can go with the i5. All in all I think this was a great learning experience just in case.


Last questions:

corsair vengeance ram, Is it worth it. I have seen great reviews and don't really want to run on stock ram anyway. If it isn't any other recommendations would be appreciated.
SSD, what's a good size to go with?
aftermarket CPU cooler, coolermaster 212?

Thank you yet again.

Assuming you're in the US, check out Microcenter for Intel CPU's. They're basically loss leaders for them. You can usually get an i5-2500K for $180 through them, but you have to go into the store to get it (where they are hoping you will spend more money, while you're there picking up your cheap processor).

I've been a fan of Corsair RAM for years. Lifetime warranty (which, from my experience, they honor well), good RAM, good prices. You don't need to go with anything really super-fancy or with huge heat spreaders on them unless you're planning to overclock your RAM, but a lot of RAM comes with it nowadays anyway just for styling. This is what I ended up with, because someone gave it to me. It's good RAM, good CAS latency/timings, and like all other DDR3, it's cheap. You could stuff 16 gigs into your system if you want, but you won't really see much benefit in gaming beyond 8 gigs. Lots of RAM only matters if you're running a bunch of VMs or going hardcore on Photoshop or something.

SSD, you want something big enough for Windows, swap file, and your more-often-played games, with a bigger normal Hard Drive for the rest of your games, media, documents, etc. 80-120 gigs is usually sufficient. I'm not entirely on top of what is the best brand/model for them, so you may need to do some research on your own. Some models have compatibility issues or bad firmware problems, from what I have heard.

I'm not really current on coolers either, but from what I do know the Hyper 212+ is a good cooler. Best cooler? Couldn't say. It's one of the few I was considering putting in my system. The stock Intel coolers work fine, though, unless you're planning to OC straightaway and want to really push the processor. If you are planning to overclock, for an extra 20 bucks or so, you can get an upgraded warranty for your K-series chip through Intel's website. It's basically a one-time replacement warranty. [censored] it up with overclocking? Intel will give you a one time replacement. It's a trial program, though, so it's only open for a few months (though it will cover your processor for several years).

[Lief]

The best brand of SSDs out there right now is probably Intel, they seem to have the least issues and such. But then again, they're the ones who first made them!

[RobbieThe1st]

Motherboard wise, MSI's been excellent for me... I went with a high-end AMD model though.
When I had a problem(or thought I did, turned out to be something else), the RMA procedure was painless and they shipped me a new one(or refurbished, couldn't tell) quickly, and it's been running stably for over a year now. And I mean stably as in I only reboot once a month for upgrades...

---------
Yeah, Intel SSDs are most expensive, but good and reliable. I'd go with a small(64-128GB) model and just load the OS and programs on it. Use a decent harddisk(Anything 1.5TB+ that's /NOT/ a 'green' drive is good) for your media.
I'd also recommend backing up your SSD's contents to your media drive at least once a week, just in case. And, of course, an external drive to back /that/ up once in a while is a very good idea too.


Cooler wise, my opinion is that you need something with heatpipes, and don't want to go with liquid cooling.
Find something with a 120MM fan on it, and it'll do well.