Can Trace turn into a Keidran?

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KnightAceNick · #1 Post by **KnightAceNick** » Sun Oct 19, 2008 1:12 pm

http://twokindscomic.com/?p=280

I know this has probably already said, but it's been bugging me.

Everytime I go through the comic I see this panel and wonder when I look at Trace's hand.

Sorry to anyone that has already posted this, if it has been posted before.

Sithil · #2 Post by **Sithil** » Sun Oct 19, 2008 1:15 pm

We know that Trace can turn other people into Keidrans, so it makes sense that he can do the same thing to himself. Atleast from my point of view.

Demus · #3 Post by **Demus** » Sun Oct 19, 2008 1:25 pm

I recall Tom stating somewhere that he will remove that panel from the book. I could be wrong.

Trace has no memory and is therefore forced to learn magic the hard way - which should make make complicated magic like turning into a whole another being extremely hard for him. It could be the old Trace momentarily taking over and becoming concious of his state of mind (i.e multiple personality disorder), but I find it unlikely given the situation the the above comic page.

Holy crap, that's it! He's there! Been all the time!
I called it!

Sithil · #4 Post by **Sithil** » Sun Oct 19, 2008 1:28 pm

Demus wrote:I recall Tom stating somewhere that he will remove that panel from the book. I could be wrong.

Trace has no memory and is therefore forced to learn magic the hard way - which should make make complicated magic like turning into a whole another being extremely hard for him. It could be the old Trace momentarily taking over and becoming concious of his state of mind (i.e multiple personality disorder), but I find it unlikely given the situation the the above comic page.

Holy crap, that's it! He's there! Been all the time!
I called it!

And I support it. With all my heart. The thought of Old Trace just playing along, planning all of this. Even getting kidnapped by the Basitins so that he would be taken to the Templar. Brilliant. Unlikely of course, but I just love dreaming.

Big Brother · #5 Post by **Big Brother** » Sun Oct 19, 2008 1:32 pm

I think he can. In fact, now that I think about it, that may be how they could get through the other teritories.

edit: He looks like he is turning himself into a tiger. Trying to look like Flora's species. Gee, wonder why.

Happeh · #6 Post by **Happeh** » Sun Oct 19, 2008 1:50 pm

I think trace can turn into a Keidran for 2 reasons.

1) He can turn other people into Keidran so he must be able to do it to himself.

2)He can sub-conciously hear Keith And Natani Talking. With them talking a different language wouldn't that be difficult? Also, why would he want to learn Keidran? Before he completly Hated them.

His hand changing is just probably the effect of magic.

Demus · #7 Post by **Demus** » Sun Oct 19, 2008 2:18 pm

Happeh wrote:1) He can turn other people into Keidran so he must be able to do it to himself.

2)He can sub-conciously hear Keith And Natani Talking. With them talking a different language wouldn't that be difficult? Also, why would he want to learn Keidran? Before he completly Hated them.

*sigh*
1) Applies only when it's about old Trace. No memory, no complicated magic (yet).
2) He's not hearing them subconsciously - they're shouting in the next room. And even though he hears them, he has probably no clue what they are saying. And memory loss again - he has no reason to hate them anymore (unless it's old Trace making a short visit).

Not to flame or anything. Just stating what I find obvious myself.

KnightAceNick · #8 Post by **KnightAceNick** » Sun Oct 19, 2008 2:26 pm

Demus wrote:
Happeh wrote:1) He can turn other people into Keidran so he must be able to do it to himself.

2)He can sub-conciously hear Keith And Natani Talking. With them talking a different language wouldn't that be difficult? Also, why would he want to learn Keidran? Before he completly Hated them.
*sigh*
1) Applies only when it's about old Trace. No memory, no complicated magic (yet).
2) He's not hearing them subconsciously - they're shouting in the next room. And even though he hears them, he has probably no clue what they are saying. And memory loss again - he has no reason to hate them anymore (unless it's old Trace making a short visit).

Not to flame or anything. Just stating what I find obvious myself.

Now whats with the complicated magic you keep stating?

Demus · #9 Post by **Demus** » Sun Oct 19, 2008 2:36 pm

KnightAceNick wrote:Now whats with the complicated magic you keep stating?

Complicated as in "requires experience, knowledge and skill - a lot of them". I just can't bring myself to believe that changing yourself to another race is as simple as a few magic words, some mana and maybe a bit of wand waving

KnightAceNick · #10 Post by **KnightAceNick** » Sun Oct 19, 2008 2:40 pm

Demus wrote:
KnightAceNick wrote:Now whats with the complicated magic you keep stating?
Complicated as in "requires experience, knowledge and skill - a lot of them". I just can't bring myself to believe that changing yourself to another race is as simple as a few magic words, some mana and maybe a bit of wand waving

So what about all the complicated magic Trace has performed before this panel? lol

People that have had memory loss only have memory loss of certain things they can usually remember skills and other things they had before just not memories of how they got the skills. Trace did summon the dragon some panels before this and did other magic such as heal Flora. So I think he can probably turn himself or at least at this point turn a part of himself into a keidran. That's just how I see it I'm not trying to flame your ideas.

Demus · #11 Post by **Demus** » Sun Oct 19, 2008 2:56 pm

KnightAceNick wrote:
Demus wrote:
KnightAceNick wrote:Now whats with the complicated magic you keep stating?
Complicated as in "requires experience, knowledge and skill - a lot of them". I just can't bring myself to believe that changing yourself to another race is as simple as a few magic words, some mana and maybe a bit of wand waving
So what about all the complicated magic Trace has performed before this panel? lol

People that have had memory loss only have memory loss of certain things they can usually remember skills and other things they had before just not memories of how they got the skills. Trace did summon the dragon some panels before this and did other magic such as heal Flora. So I think he can probably turn himself or at least at this point turn a part of himself into a keidran. That's just how I see it I'm not trying to flame your ideas.

I understand. And I'm just making a point on how I see it

I don't know how magic works in Tom's world, granted, but the most difficult thing I've seen Trace himself doing is healing Flora (magic shield and levitating would be just moving and forming mana around, methinks). Things like dragons have always been old Trace's (aka Evil Trace) power overwhelming Trace. Of course it's also possible that Trace has gained some control of his old self's skills, but that's starting to be a matter of opinion whether good Trace controls evil Trace or vice versa.

Where's Avwolf when I need him?

Talonmaster Zso · #12 Post by **Talonmaster Zso** » Sun Oct 19, 2008 3:04 pm

Happeh wrote:1) He can turn other people into Keidran so he must be able to do it to himself.

I could make people watch a Uwe Bolle movie, doesn't mean I could watch it.

2)He can sub-conciously hear Keith And Natani Talking. With them talking a different language wouldn't that be difficult?

Unlike what is magically portrayed in fiction, changing your shape does not give you knowledge to the language being spoken. Unless you want to say all Kiedran are born capable of speaking the language fully and it is an inherent language and not a learned one.

Also, why would he want to learn Keidran? Before he completly Hated them.

So one could understand what captured documents and warriors are saying? Does no good to take Prisoners of War if you can't communicate, or take important plans if you can't tell if they plan to shower the town with candies or divert a river into it to flood it down.

Demus · #13 Post by **Demus** » Sun Oct 19, 2008 3:12 pm

Talonmaster Zso wrote:Does no good to take Prisoners of War if you can't communicate, or take important plans if you can't tell if they plan to shower the town with candies

Ooh, that's devious! All the children would get cavities and the town will go bankrupt from dentist bills.

FastChapter · #14 Post by **FastChapter** » Sun Oct 19, 2008 4:13 pm

It's already been established earlier in the comic that Trace is able to transform into a Keidran and back, so long as he's able to click his ruby slippers together three times and say the magic words.

FoobyKamikaze · #15 Post by **FoobyKamikaze** » Sun Oct 19, 2008 4:34 pm

If he can, he just doesn't consciously know to.
Given the controversies in their world about his and Flora's relationship, I'd assume that if he had to power to transform himself into a Keidran and remove these, he already would have. He loves her. Plus, there's nothing he considers important to his human life tying him to that (save his life span, but once his equals Flora I doubt he'd care); there's not much for him to look back on and miss him after the amnesia and all.

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