Comic for June 14, 2021: Kathrin in Trouble pt5

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Warrl
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Re: Comic for June 14, 2021: Kathrin in Trouble pt5

#46 Post by Warrl »

Thomas Rot wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 6:21 amAlso wanted to remark on that line of Kat's. More significant that Romulus seems to realise, and he never did explicitly order her not to lie
Actually he did ... well before putting the bracelet on her. (And therefore the rest of your point stands in spite of this minor error.)
The slave collar Rose put on Raine. As far as we can see Rose didn't mess around with it; whatever its permissions are that we saw in-comic are the ones that evil Trace originally set. That also means Rose didn't try to enter Raine as a "forbidden user" for her training exercise with the collar. They seem to be set specifically to obey Trace and whoever else held authority within the estate.
While that looked like a standard slave shackle, we've seen no evidence (that I can recall anyway) that it had the normal slave-related enchantment. In fact I doubt that it could - not while also being a magic suppressor.

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Re: Comic for June 14, 2021: Kathrin in Trouble pt5

#47 Post by Technic[Bot] »

I do no think the shackle has any teleportation abilities. I agree with what Me Thomas said. Once outside the shackle will simply force Kat to rally with the rest of Clovis posse waiting outside or they will see her and collect her.
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Re: Comic for June 14, 2021: Kathrin in Trouble pt5

#48 Post by Tyger42 »

Bellhead wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:48 amZen, on the other hand, seems rather adept at stealth, or at least blind spots. Speaking from experience, if somebody's focused on something, particularly something that requires or demands undivided attention, simply walking quietly is generally enough to avoid detection. And that's when the subject in question isn't in loads of pain from a knife to the arm.
Well, I mean, Zen IS a professional assassin...

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Re: Comic for June 14, 2021: Kathrin in Trouble pt5

#49 Post by Bellhead »

Tyger42 wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 12:03 pm
Bellhead wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:48 amZen, on the other hand, seems rather adept at stealth, or at least blind spots. Speaking from experience, if somebody's focused on something, particularly something that requires or demands undivided attention, simply walking quietly is generally enough to avoid detection. And that's when the subject in question isn't in loads of pain from a knife to the arm.
Well, I mean, Zen IS a professional assassin...
"Professional" only means you get paid for it. There's a MASSIVE difference between 'professional' and 'expert'. Oh, I could tell you stories...

That said, I was basing my preconceptions on old lore which may or may not have been retconned, but either way, the Magi Brothers' reputation has definitely been exaggerated to some extent.
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Re: Comic for June 14, 2021: Kathrin in Trouble pt5

#50 Post by Warrl »

Bellhead wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 1:52 pmThat said, I was basing my preconceptions on old lore which may or may not have been retconned, but either way, the Magi Brothers' reputation has definitely been exaggerated to some extent.
It's canon that, prior to the comic, all of their assigned targets died.

There was some unpredictability in how they died - the Brothers didn't directly kill most of them - but you don't exactly expect their targets to be cooperative, so it would be nothing abnormal for an assassination to go off in a fashion other than as planned.

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Re: Comic for June 14, 2021: Kathrin in Trouble pt5

#51 Post by Bellhead »

Warrl wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 6:50 pm
Bellhead wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 1:52 pmThat said, I was basing my preconceptions on old lore which may or may not have been retconned, but either way, the Magi Brothers' reputation has definitely been exaggerated to some extent.
It's canon that, prior to the comic, all of their assigned targets died.

There was some unpredictability in how they died - the Brothers didn't directly kill most of them - but you don't exactly expect their targets to be cooperative, so it would be nothing abnormal for an assassination to go off in a fashion other than as planned.
This, precisely. I remembered that all of them died on their own, and that none of them were actually killed by the brothers. I figured I was off at least a little. Thanks. :)
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Re: Comic for June 14, 2021: Kathrin in Trouble pt5

#52 Post by SmileWolf »

I actually chose to describe Rom as a sadist deliberately. He is someone who is getting joy from causing others pain. He isn't just doing the job, he's revelling in it, gloating about it. That's textbook sadist. It'd be naive to think this is a trait he's never shown before, or that this is his first job or opportunity to exhibit this trait.

It's also textbook bad guy, as others have said; instead of saying 'ouch' he could have justifiably said 'you sly wolf, you caught me monologuing!' Not much else to him. Clovis, at least, has a background that's been touched on, which gives him depth and motivations that one may not be sympathetic to, but can be understood and make some sort of sense (at least to him). Rom hasn't gotten that fleshing out, he's just a mustache twirler.

Edit adding: and that's not a knock on the writer. You can't flesh out every character. There's not enough time and it would drag the stories out impossibly. Imagine for example trying to flesh out the backstory of every red shirt in Star Trek before they get offed 😄. Some characters are needed simply to help do things to advance the story; sometimes that thing is dying.

Here's hoping Rom is weeded out of the story now that the one thing he's probably needed for - putting that thing on Kat - had been accomplished.

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Re: Comic for June 14, 2021: Kathrin in Trouble pt5

#53 Post by Technic[Bot] »

Bellhead wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 8:58 pm
Warrl wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 6:50 pm
Bellhead wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 1:52 pmThat said, I was basing my preconceptions on old lore which may or may not have been retconned, but either way, the Magi Brothers' reputation has definitely been exaggerated to some extent.
It's canon that, prior to the comic, all of their assigned targets died.

There was some unpredictability in how they died - the Brothers didn't directly kill most of them - but you don't exactly expect their targets to be cooperative, so it would be nothing abnormal for an assassination to go off in a fashion other than as planned.
This, precisely. I remembered that all of them died on their own, and that none of them were actually killed by the brothers. I figured I was off at least a little. Thanks. :)
I think i mentioned sometime before. Yes their skills are certainly exaggerated but i do not think they are completely incompetent at their jobs. So i expect at least some of their targets where actually killed by their hand.
SmileWolf wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 2:22 am I actually chose to describe Rom as a sadist deliberately. He is someone who is getting joy from causing others pain. He isn't just doing the job, he's revelling in it, gloating about it. That's textbook sadist. It'd be naive to think this is a trait he's never shown before, or that this is his first job or opportunity to exhibit this trait.

It's also textbook bad guy, as others have said; instead of saying 'ouch' he could have justifiably said 'you sly wolf, you caught me monologuing!' Not much else to him. Clovis, at least, has a background that's been touched on, which gives him depth and motivations that one may not be sympathetic to, but can be understood and make some sort of sense (at least to him). Rom hasn't gotten that fleshing out, he's just a mustache twirler.

Edit adding: and that's not a knock on the writer. You can't flesh out every character. There's not enough time and it would drag the stories out impossibly. Imagine for example trying to flesh out the backstory of every red shirt in Star Trek before they get offed 😄. Some characters are needed simply to help do things to advance the story; sometimes that thing is dying.

Here's hoping Rom is weeded out of the story now that the one thing he's probably needed for - putting that thing on Kat - had been accomplished.
I agree there is no need to flesh out every character and there is some beauty in that. As most of the time this will cause people to give very different interpretations to the character, that is interesting as we all seeing the same thing but we perceived it differently.
Personally i still see the twins as mercs in for the money, I think Romulus was gloating at besting Kat despite her outwitting him before, not fantasizing about what they will do with her after the raid is over. For him she is just a bonus on top of his usual salary maybe a better standing to Clovis, nothing personal kid more. Does that make it good? Of course not he is still a killer for hire but i do think he is not as bad as lets say Clovis or old Trace.
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Re: Comic for June 14, 2021: Kathrin in Trouble pt5

#54 Post by MatyMaty »

Technic[Bot] wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 2:45 am
I agree there is no need to flesh out every character and there is some beauty in that. As most of the time this will cause people to give very different interpretations to the character, that is interesting as we all seeing the same thing but we perceived it differently.
Personally i still see the twins as mercs in for the money, I think Romulus was gloating at besting Kat despite her outwitting him before, not fantasizing about what they will do with her after the raid is over. For him she is just a bonus on top of his usual salary maybe a better standing to Clovis, nothing personal kid more. Does that make it good? Of course not he is still a killer for hire but i do think he is not as bad as lets say Clovis or old Trace.
Nobody can really match Trace's (or rather his old self) level of evil doing. Clovis and his goons are criminal and slavers, but TK humans in general are pretty terrible too. Trace not only embodied the worst traits of humanity, but he went beyond and into a true inhuman level when he dabbled in necromancy and dark magic. Bringing back the dead through black magic is always one of the most taboo things in most cultures and settings.

If you think about it, Nora could fall into the "evil" group of characters, if anything because of how amoral she is. Tom has mentioned she really has no concept of good and evil like we do, and her interest on Trace (despite all the awful things he did) shows that.

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Re: Comic for June 14, 2021: Kathrin in Trouble pt5

#55 Post by Technic[Bot] »

MatyMaty wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 4:54 am
Technic[Bot] wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 2:45 am
I agree there is no need to flesh out every character and there is some beauty in that. As most of the time this will cause people to give very different interpretations to the character, that is interesting as we all seeing the same thing but we perceived it differently.
Personally i still see the twins as mercs in for the money, I think Romulus was gloating at besting Kat despite her outwitting him before, not fantasizing about what they will do with her after the raid is over. For him she is just a bonus on top of his usual salary maybe a better standing to Clovis, nothing personal kid more. Does that make it good? Of course not he is still a killer for hire but i do think he is not as bad as lets say Clovis or old Trace.
Nobody can really match Trace's (or rather his old self) level of evil doing. Clovis and his goons are criminal and slavers, but TK humans in general are pretty terrible too. Trace not only embodied the worst traits of humanity, but he went beyond and into a true inhuman level when he dabbled in necromancy and dark magic. Bringing back the dead through black magic is always one of the most taboo things in most cultures and settings.

If you think about it, Nora could fall into the "evil" group of characters, if anything because of how amoral she is. Tom has mentioned she really has no concept of good and evil like we do, and her interest on Trace (despite all the awful things he did) shows that.
My interpretation of Nora as a character is not really kind. At best she is a lonely, old, grumpy and bored woman that really needs to get laid. At worst, well she is just some monster who enjoys messing around with other people lifes out of plain boredom. She does not consider other people as "real people" but as playthings she can entertain herself with.
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Re: Comic for June 14, 2021: Kathrin in Trouble pt5

#56 Post by Eclipse »

I think Nora is a chaotic neutral at worst. She does troll people for fun, but it mostly seems to be harmless, mainly with gender related shenanigans. She doesn't really harm or kill innocent people with what she's doing.

As for Rom, I don't think he'll survive, he doesn't need to survive. He's little more than a hired goon that just screams "villain of the day". He doesn't really offer much in terms of characterization, and while Tom could add more, with the cast being as crowded as it is, that's probably not a good idea. The only characters from Clovis' gang I see becoming permanent cast members are Brutus and Clovis, and with Clovis being hellbent on exterminating anything that gets in his way, I don't think he's more than a villain of the day either.

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Re: Comic for June 14, 2021: Kathrin in Trouble pt5

#57 Post by whiskeyfur »

Hey Romulus , did you like.. forget the whole 'assassin' thing they were known for?

There's Zen with a reminder, just in case you did forget.

Aaannnd.. I know their rep is a little exaggerated but, considering you just tried to kidnap one of their friends AND are on the attack... or were, in your case.

They'll just have to continue on without you now. What a shame...

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Re: Comic for June 14, 2021: Kathrin in Trouble pt5

#58 Post by Kyrit »

For those saying Zen should spare Rom just because Team B spared Zen;
- Zen was initially spared because the group believed they needed him for an antidote
- Zen proved to them that he would rather get them to Group A than try to kill them again
- Even then they put the magic suppressor on him and kept him bound up just in case

- There isn't currently reason to believe that anyone here needs Rom alive. He himself said he couldn't take the shackle off Kat. Maybe if he hadn't said that Zen would consider not killing him (yet at least)
- Rom hasn't given any reason to believe that he'd drop the job of given the chance. Instead he's doing even more by giving Clovis a "gift." Even before that he was going to kill someone he'd called an innocent, a non-target.
- Zen knows these people. He knows what kind of threat they are. He knows that in his current condition of he doesn't make it quick he's putting himself at risk and definitely losing the chance to save Kat. And even more importantly to Zen, after the encounter with Carver he knows they're after Natani and big brother that he is he's going to do everything to stop that.

So yeah, Zen has no reason to spare Rom.

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