Comic for April 14, 2021: No Hard Feelings

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Tyger42
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Re: Comic for April 14, 2021: No Hard Feelings

#16 Post by Tyger42 »

"Big, but should be enough" seems to leave open the possibility that Clovis miscalculated. I know, slim chance at best, but...

aitaituo
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Re: Comic for April 14, 2021: No Hard Feelings

#17 Post by aitaituo »

tony1695 wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 5:18 am This little revelation that Clovis and Brutus were around each other long before Clovis' ascension to criminal kingpin really does change just how significant the murder is. Killing a completely loyal underling is one thing, but a childhood friend? In a way, it's reassuring to see that he's desperately trying to convince himself that it was the right thing, because it shows that he knows it wasn't. That none of this twisted logic is working in this situation.

And I guess now we get to see just what else Clovis' new bit of jewellery can do. We know it can stop the manor's defences from frying him, but what about dragonfire?
It really just makes clear the twisted logic is utterly insane. Does Clovis really believe that since childhood he planned to use Brutus as a worthless pawn? What at that age could have possibly made him convinced that caring about anyone would be an unacceptable liability because adversary might...what exactly?

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Rafe
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Re: Comic for April 14, 2021: No Hard Feelings

#18 Post by Rafe »

One thing that Clovis better hope he is imune to now, is Reni's ability to read his thoughts.

I assume that one of the reasons that the sometimes cautious Reni is in full attack mode right now, is that she knows exactly who Clovis is, and what he's up to. Not only that, but I doubt he was protecting his thoughts about what he just did to his childhood friend from being read. Reni probably just saw his flashbck, and his lame rationalization for killing Brutus just like we did. And remember, Brutus told her (and Maddie and Karen) about his relationship with Clovis, so what just happened is probably very clear to her. Plus, Clovis looks to be talking to himself in Human. This should be easy for Reni to follow. Maybe Clovis' "that should be enough" comment means there's still a chance for Brutus, and he's not quite dead yet.

Let's hope her mind-reading will keep Clovis from harming her in any way. She should see any tricky move coming, even if it involves magic. At the very least, you'd hope that she gets some impression of what he's planning.

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Zaigan
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Re: Comic for April 14, 2021: No Hard Feelings

#19 Post by Zaigan »

aitaituo wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 2:43 am

It really just makes clear the twisted logic is utterly insane. Does Clovis really believe that since childhood he planned to use Brutus as a worthless pawn? What at that age could have possibly made him convinced that caring about anyone would be an unacceptable liability because adversary might...what exactly?
Ah, I think all his trembling, especially noticeable in the sketches shows that he doesn't really believe what he's saying. He knows he really loved Brutus, on some level. It still almost seems romantic, although it could just be passionate friendship, although I could totally see Clovis's womanizing mixed with his hatred of them as overcompensating for closeting himself and that he's actually gay. In a way, so much of himself is being false, isn't it? He tries to claim to be a "golden wolf" to hide being a hybrid of fox and wolf. He hid away after he was transformed, unable to face being cursed with a female body. I bet he'd gay panic and bury those feelings as deep as he could. He probably made excuses all their lives as to why he kept Brutus around, he tried to cage the love into so many other things. Say he was just using him, say he just was a good bodyguard. Other guys in his cartel picked up on them being extra close.

He thought he could escape those feelings, so for the first time in his life he's truly experiencing loss... and recognizing that he brought it upon himself. He's likely having his first experience with remorse.

I mean, I said I don't think he deserves forgiveness, but maybe that's not really in the spirit of TwoKinds. Before the memory wipe Trace was a genocidal monster who likely had a body count of innocents that rivals Clovis... but we only get brief glimpses and that's not "our" Trace. However, Trace is remembering bits and pieces, and is kind of reconnecting the two lives he lead, in hopefully a healing way. That means he, too, has a lot to make amends for. Perhaps, in the light that Clovis hasn't staged a complete genocide, his crimes will be punished in some other way.

Gonna take a lot of lifetimes to work off that karma debt, though.
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steelabjur
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Re: Comic for April 14, 2021: No Hard Feelings

#20 Post by steelabjur »

Zaigan wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 4:58 am It looks like they bonded as kids, maybe Clovis had a rough time even with a family he later betrayed?
He's obviously half fox and obviously grew up poor in a society that's prejudiced toward both, there's no way he could have had an easy time of it just from that. There's a good chance that he was forced into crime just to survive.
Rafe wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 11:31 am I'm sure Clovis has a way out of this in his plans. He may lose his chance to get Zen this time, but he hasn't been amassing all that magical power for nothing. The only question is, will Remus (or was it Romulus?) be captured alive, escape, or maybe even get his hands on Zen? And, of course, what will Mrs. Nibbly and Sythe find?
Remus was the one who took the header after trying to kill Sythe, Romulus was the one sent after Zen.
Rafe wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 4:19 am One thing that Clovis better hope he is immune to now, is Reni's ability to read his thoughts.

I assume that one of the reasons that the sometimes cautious Reni is in full attack mode right now, is that she knows exactly who Clovis is, and what he's up to. Not only that, but I doubt he was protecting his thoughts about what he just did to his childhood friend from being read. Reni probably just saw his flashback, and his lame rationalization for killing Brutus just like we did. And remember, Brutus told her (and Maddie and Karen) about his relationship with Clovis, so what just happened is probably very clear to her. Plus, Clovis looks to be talking to himself in Human. This should be easy for Reni to follow. Maybe Clovis' "that should be enough" comment means there's still a chance for Brutus, and he's not quite dead yet.

Let's hope her mind-reading will keep Clovis from harming her in any way. She should see any tricky move coming, even if it involves magic. At the very least, you'd hope that she gets some impression of what he's planning.
I'd assume that Clovis is actually speaking/thinking in Keidran, a language Reni doesn't know, and Tom didn't mark it as normal by accident. It's his native language and he has no reason to be thinking/speaking Human in this situation. Heck, Reni not understanding his words and seeing him standing over someone she sees in his mind is a childhood friend wringing his hands and obviously upset might actually save both him and Brutus, as she might assume Clovis is his friend and was just trying to bust Brutus out and found him like this and turn her attention to saving Brutus from the poison, giving Clovis the chance to sneak away. As for Reni, after the attack in the beach room and everything going on, I'd be in "enter every room as if expecting attack" mode and ready to toss flame at anyone I didn't recognize too.

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Re: Comic for April 14, 2021: No Hard Feelings

#21 Post by Bellhead »

steelabjur wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 7:53 am I'd assume that Clovis is actually speaking/thinking in Keidran, a language Reni doesn't know, and Tom didn't mark it as normal by accident. It's his native language and he has no reason to be thinking/speaking Human in this situation. Heck, Reni not understanding his words and seeing him standing over someone she sees in his mind is a childhood friend wringing his hands and obviously upset might actually save both him and Brutus, as she might assume Clovis is his friend and was just trying to bust Brutus out and found him like this and turn her attention to saving Brutus from the poison, giving Clovis the chance to sneak away. As for Reni, after the attack in the beach room and everything going on, I'd be in "enter every room as if expecting attack" mode and ready to toss flame at anyone I didn't recognize too.
I'll cite Reni's explanation, when speaking with Natani. Can't link because mobile...

Natani was clearly speaking keidran at the time, but Reni understood him fine because she interpreted his thoughts. Knowing how to understand a spoken language only comes into play when reading memories and the subject doesn't remember their thoughts at the time.

Also:
I don't know the feasibility of a mind read mid-fight, but I suppose it's possible... I just don't think that's what she's doing there.
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Rafe
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Re: Comic for April 14, 2021: No Hard Feelings

#22 Post by Rafe »

steelabjur wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 7:53 am
...I'd assume that Clovis is actually speaking/thinking in Keidran, a language Reni doesn't know, and Tom didn't mark it as normal by accident. It's his native language and he has no reason to be thinking/speaking Human in this situation. Heck, Reni not understanding his words and seeing him standing over someone she sees in his mind is a childhood friend wringing his hands and obviously upset might actually save both him and Brutus, as she might assume Clovis is his friend and was just trying to bust Brutus out and found him like this and turn her attention to saving Brutus from the poison, giving Clovis the chance to sneak away. As for Reni, after the attack in the beach room and everything going on, I'd be in "enter every room as if expecting attack" mode and ready to toss flame at anyone I didn't recognize too.

Reni doesn't read minds in any given language. As she's explained before, when someone is thinking in front of her, in the present time, she understands all their thoughts. That's how she can communicate with Natani, for example. With memories in a different language she can hear the sounds, but since there are no thoughts behind them, she can only know what she "hears" (which is how she knew Clovis's name originally). But with Clovis thinking, very intensely, right in front of her, I'm sure she's hearing and understanding eveything (barring some kind of thought-blocking magic).

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Rasol
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Re: Comic for April 14, 2021: No Hard Feelings

#23 Post by Rasol »

Eclipse wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 10:24 pm And yeah, that flashback just makes Clovis look even more like a scumbag. Enough Tom, we already get that Clovis is a scumbag that tried to off his friend to keep him from hurting his business. Revealing that Clovis is a scumbag that tried to off his childhood friend to keep him from hurting his business is just unnecessary overkill.
I feel like you're missing something. Clovis didn't kill Brutus because he was bad for business. Clovis killed Brutus because he is SCARED of the emotions he feels for him.

If this was about business, there wouldn't have been any reason to kill his best, and most loyal henchman. Brutus is still a valuable asset. Nothing he did was out of line, or endangered the business in any MEANINGFUL way.

No, Clovis heard his FRIEND (no matter if he will admit it or not) was in danger, and he had a fleeting thought that he would risk himself to save him. He put the interests of another person ahead of his own. He didn't act on it though. He just thought it. And it shook him to his core. That is why Brutus had to die.

And for what it's worth. I don't WANT Brutus to survive. Clovis clearly regrets his decision. His hands were trembling, and he's trying his best to justify it. But it wont work. For what he did, for the killing of his childhood friend. He needs to SUFFER. Saving Brutus will only cheapen that death, and alleviate Clovis torment.

I still want to see how far this goes. I want to see how ugly the world is that produced a man like Clovis. He didn't become who he is because of something simple. Like Trace, this monster was born from the trauma of a broken world. I want to see what made Clovis the "Prince of greed" the monster he is.

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Re: Comic for April 14, 2021: No Hard Feelings

#24 Post by aitaituo »

Zaigan wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 7:33 am
aitaituo wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 2:43 am

It really just makes clear the twisted logic is utterly insane. Does Clovis really believe that since childhood he planned to use Brutus as a worthless pawn? What at that age could have possibly made him convinced that caring about anyone would be an unacceptable liability because adversary might...what exactly?
Ah, I think all his trembling, especially noticeable in the sketches shows that he doesn't really believe what he's saying. He knows he really loved Brutus, on some level. It still almost seems romantic, although it could just be passionate friendship, although I could totally see Clovis's womanizing mixed with his hatred of them as overcompensating for closeting himself and that he's actually gay. In a way, so much of himself is being false, isn't it? He tries to claim to be a "golden wolf" to hide being a hybrid of fox and wolf. He hid away after he was transformed, unable to face being cursed with a female body. I bet he'd gay panic and bury those feelings as deep as he could. He probably made excuses all their lives as to why he kept Brutus around, he tried to cage the love into so many other things. Say he was just using him, say he just was a good bodyguard. Other guys in his cartel picked up on them being extra close.

He thought he could escape those feelings, so for the first time in his life he's truly experiencing loss... and recognizing that he brought it upon himself. He's likely having his first experience with remorse.
This theory makes sense to me. It's still twisted logic in its execution, though. There are better ways to burn bridges than murder. Clovis, for example, has access to a magical that can turn Brutus into a chicken.

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Re: Comic for April 14, 2021: No Hard Feelings

#25 Post by Rasol »

aitaituo wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 7:47 pm This theory makes sense to me. It's still twisted logic in its execution, though. There are better ways to burn bridges than murder. Clovis, for example, has access to a magical that can turn Brutus into a chicken.
Maybe so, but that's not something Clovis was willing to consider. His removal of Brutus had to be immediate, and above all PERMANENT.

Clovis cannot allow himself a weakness like a friend. Likely he's been hurt by those attachments in the past.

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Re: Comic for April 14, 2021: No Hard Feelings

#26 Post by Bellhead »

Rasol wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 8:32 pm Likely he's been hurt by those attachments in the past.
I kinda doubt that, honestly. He seems more like the paranoid type to me; somebody who sees any sort of weakness, any possible angle of attack open against him, as something that must be destroyed. "Somebody can use this against me. It has to go."

From what we see in this page, it seems clear that Brutus was just about the closest single individual, emotionally speaking, that Clovis ever had. If somebody was going to betray him and have it cause this level of distrust, it would have to be him. Otherwise, he would have known not to let anyone get that close to him; he would have seen it coming.
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Re: Comic for April 14, 2021: No Hard Feelings

#27 Post by stlsf4003 »

Whether or not the wolf formerly known as Brutus has indeed punched his ticket on that last train to the pearly gates or hopped on the express elevator to hell remains to be seen. (really hoping he is indeed pushing daisies on this one. it would be kind of cheap to see Clovis' actions effecting him this much only to have the big guy deus ex machina'ed back into to this plane of existence.)

One thing is for sure though in the next few pages or so. Clovis is about get a front row demonstration of the power a very angry dragon princess!
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Re: Comic for April 14, 2021: No Hard Feelings

#28 Post by whiskeyfur »

aitaituo wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 2:43 am It really just makes clear the twisted logic is utterly insane. Does Clovis really believe that since childhood he planned to use Brutus as a worthless pawn? What at that age could have possibly made him convinced that caring about anyone would be an unacceptable liability because adversary might...what exactly?
Maybe, maybe not... could be later on when he got serious about world domination he changed his mind about his friends.

Either way... this kinda proves out what I was thinking when he confessed how he felt several pages ago, with him just steeling himself for what he thought he had to do and remove a weakness.

That doesn't make it hurt any less.

Some people will give up everything for power.

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Re: Comic for April 14, 2021: No Hard Feelings

#29 Post by FuryoftheStars »

stlsf4003 wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:22 pm Whether or not the wolf formerly known as Brutus has indeed punched his ticket on that last train to the pearly gates or hopped on the express elevator to hell remains to be seen. (really hoping he is indeed pushing daisies on this one. it would be kind of cheap to see Clovis' actions effecting him this much only to have the big guy deus ex machina'ed back into to this plane of existence.)
Yeah, I have the same feelings, here. It would seem kind of cheap for them to be able to rescue him, etc.
stlsf4003 wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:22 pm One thing is for sure though in the next few pages or so. Clovis is about get a front row demonstration of the power a very angry dragon princess!
You know, one thing I’ve been wondering, that main jewel of Clovis’ that was enchanted a specific way that took several of the Templar’s best a long time to make... was it enchanted specifically for allowing him to breach the manor’s defenses, or against dragon magic in general (and being as the manor defenses were setup by a dragon, that would included that, too)?

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Re: Comic for April 14, 2021: No Hard Feelings

#30 Post by stlsf4003 »

FuryoftheStars wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 11:52 pm
stlsf4003 wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:22 pm One thing is for sure though in the next few pages or so. Clovis is about get a front row demonstration of the power a very angry dragon princess!
You know, one thing I’ve been wondering, that main jewel of Clovis’ that was enchanted a specific way that took several of the Templar’s best a long time to make... was it enchanted specifically for allowing him to breach the manor’s defenses, or against dragon magic in general (and being as the manor defenses were setup by a dragon, that would included that, too)?
Who knows? Either that amulet is strong enough to resist the power of a juvenile dragon or Clovis is about to get a brief experience of what it was like to be on the business end of an M2 flamethrower!

What goes around, comes around as they say. ;)
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