Comic for February 7, 2021: Poisonous Friendship

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Zaigan
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Re: Comic for February 7, 2021: Poisonous Friendship

#31 Post by Zaigan »

whattheactual wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 10:43 pm [Writer kills off character because edge and drama]
I am a bit surprised that you were that attached to Brutus. I mean, like who you like, but he seemed a little one note. I think Laura's death was more traumatic especially how her soul probably really did get back into the fake body, and then she lied about what she remembered with Trace so that Keith wouldn't sacrifice his life so they would spend a few more days together.

Wasn't it Brutus who almost kill Adira and Maeve. His loyalty to Clovis might have been endearing, but his paws weren't that clean.

Ah, and I see now, it was the title that gives away it's a poison spell specifically. Maybe Reni will save him to find out it is Clovis running amok in the manor, then you can have your Brutus redemption arc, maybe. Or he could say all that and still die.
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SomeBody
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Re: Comic for February 7, 2021: Poisonous Friendship

#32 Post by SomeBody »

Yeesh, what's with all the gnashing of teeth and proclamations that they're dropping the comic? Because a character died? People have been dying throughout the comic's run. This isn't some sudden turn to grimdark, this is literally how the comic's been running for a decade.

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Eclipse
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Re: Comic for February 7, 2021: Poisonous Friendship

#33 Post by Eclipse »

Yeah, I was about 50/50 on this happening after the last panel, Clovis clearly saw Brutus as a hindrance and wanted to get rid of him, but I wasn't sure if it would happen this soon. It seems like a waste of character development to kill Brutus off this soon, Tom's gone through all this trouble to establish that Brutus is loyal to Clovis just to off him? It feels like that was building up to something larger. I suspect Brutus isn't actually dead yet (Classic Villain Mistake #1: walk away confident your target is dead when they aren't instead of confirming the kill) and Reni indeed might revive him.
SomeBody wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 10:59 pm Yeesh, what's with all the gnashing of teeth and proclamations that they're dropping the comic? Because a character died? People have been dying throughout the comic's run. This isn't some sudden turn to grimdark, this is literally how the comic's been running for a decade.
Character deaths have actually been few and far between in the comic so far. You can count the number of notable characters that have died on one hand, and they've all been in two chapters (this one and Chapter 11). There are grimdark moments in the comic, but it usually isn't this dark and hasn't been for a long while, and the rarity of a character death makes each one notable.

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Re: Comic for February 7, 2021: Poisonous Friendship

#34 Post by steelabjur »

stlsf4003 wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 9:32 pm Well then.....It's not the way I had envisioned it happening but he did it, the [censored] did it!

Now if some could gladly drop an A bomb on Clovis to make up for it, that would be wonderful!

On another note. If tom keeps this up, this chapters gonna have highest body count of the series! May even surpass the Basitin Island arc!

(much salt there is, in this thread)
Not even close, unless some of the main cast buy it. Basitin Island arc: Basitin soldiers, Templar students and Architect, the Generals, Laura. Most "named" characters maybe though.

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Re: Comic for February 7, 2021: Poisonous Friendship

#35 Post by steelabjur »

Zaigan wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 10:55 pm
whattheactual wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 10:43 pm [Writer kills off character because edge and drama]
I am a bit surprised that you were that attached to Brutus. I mean, like who you like, but he seemed a little one note. I think Laura's death was more traumatic especially how her soul probably really did get back into the fake body, and then she lied about what she remembered with Trace so that Keith wouldn't sacrifice his life so they would spend a few more days together.

Wasn't it Brutus who almost kill Adira and Maeve. His loyalty to Clovis might have been endearing, but his paws weren't that clean.

Ah, and I see now, it was the title that gives away it's a poison spell specifically. Maybe Reni will save him to find out it is Clovis running amok in the manor, then you can have your Brutus redemption arc, maybe. Or he could say all that and still die.
Nope.

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Re: Comic for February 7, 2021: Poisonous Friendship

#36 Post by Alvin-Earthworm »

Eclipse wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 11:04 pm Yeah, I was about 50/50 on this happening after the last panel, Clovis clearly saw Brutus as a hindrance and wanted to get rid of him, but I wasn't sure if it would happen this soon. It seems like a waste of character development to kill Brutus off this soon, Tom's gone through all this trouble to establish that Brutus is loyal to Clovis just to off him? It feels like that was building up to something larger. I suspect Brutus isn't actually dead yet (Classic Villain Mistake #1: walk away confident your target is dead when they aren't instead of confirming the kill) and Reni indeed might revive him.
I find the whole Reni reviving Brutus theory to be even more stupid and contrived than the one where Clovis killed Brutus (which actually happened in the end, so what the eff do I know?)

Besides. The cast of protagonists has enough wolves as it is without adding yet another one to the mix.

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Re: Comic for February 7, 2021: Poisonous Friendship

#37 Post by MaverickMopete »

Well.

I was wrong.

Completely, utterly, 100% Wrong.

Now I just hope Clovis meets his end in such a way that the last thing he thinks of is, "Gosh, I wish I hadn't just killed my most loyal minion ever."

I can't help but feel like this was a "Lotso Moment", though.

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Re: Comic for February 7, 2021: Poisonous Friendship

#38 Post by stlsf4003 »

steelabjur wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 11:07 pm
stlsf4003 wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 9:32 pm Well then.....It's not the way I had envisioned it happening but he did it, the [censored] did it!

Now if some could gladly drop an A bomb on Clovis to make up for it, that would be wonderful!

On another note. If tom keeps this up, this chapters gonna have highest body count of the series! May even surpass the Basitin Island arc!

(much salt there is, in this thread)
Not even close, unless some of the main cast buy it. Basitin Island arc: Basitin soldiers, Templar students and Architect, the Generals, Laura. Most "named" characters maybe though.
Probibly should of said named characters when I typed that. ^^;

With that said the casualty for the Island Arc comes up to three named dead. This chapter has one confirmed, one possible/most likely and one technically dead.
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Re: Comic for February 7, 2021: Poisonous Friendship

#39 Post by Alea »

Is anyone else just... not understanding Clovis's plan here?
Unless he has another motive I'm not seeing, why would you break into the estate, guarded by a Grand Templar & a Dragon, just to kill two of your own henchmen & kidnap someone (Zen) who you could have taken much earlier?

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Re: Comic for February 7, 2021: Poisonous Friendship

#40 Post by Alvin-Earthworm »

Alea wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 11:30 pm Is anyone else just... not understanding Clovis's plan here?
Unless he has another motive I'm not seeing, why would you break into the estate, guarded by a Grand Templar & a Dragon, just to kill two of your own henchmen & kidnap someone (Zen) who you could have taken much earlier?
This is why I think this whole situation is so contrived. I even said it a few weeks ago.
Alvin-Earthworm wrote: Sun Jan 24, 2021 11:58 am "Show even a hint of disloyalty and I'll kill you. But don't show too much loyalty or I'll also kill you".
Do you even notice how asinine that sounds?
Why even have henchmen at all if none of them will ever realistically reach that "sweet spot" in his eyes?
Clovis is just a badly written two dimensional villain.

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Re: Comic for February 7, 2021: Poisonous Friendship

#41 Post by aerion111 »

Yeah, Brutus was basically the only reason I was still invested in the Clovis-related plot. At this point, I hope we don't see any more of Clovis except from the point of view of Natani/Zen and/or Trace.
If they're just a villain, with no sympathetic sides and no sympathetic followers either... Why are we following them when none of the interesting characters are around? Why not just show the dead Brutus later on and leave us to draw our own conclusions?
Mind, Mr. Fischbach can do whatever he wants with his comic, not trying to say otherwise. If I expected him to read this, I'd refrain from saying anything negative (and I'd look for somewhere else to talk to other fans without having to worry about stepping on the creator's toes). But it's not the direction I was hoping it'd go (I'm quite worn out on depressing stories with little catharsis, Twokinds is supposed to be an exception).
I'm not even sad, except in the sense that the wording reminds me of other stories that did make me sad, I'm mostly just annoyed. Brutus needed to do more 'on-screen', show what it's like to be an energetic, upbeat follower of a villain. Instead, he basically got introduced just in time to be killed off, I've more attachment to those 'two days from retirement' cops or those soldiers showing off pictures of their girlfriends moments before heading off to battle, than I've got for Brutus, despite liking Brutus in the 'supplemental'/non-canon stuff.
As it is... I don't care about Clovis, like I said, and there's no one else left for me to care about on their side, so... Yeah. Hopefully the comic moves on to more interesting characters soon, and we don't spend too long following Clovis around until and unless they get some more interesting followers that they refrain from killing.

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Re: Comic for February 7, 2021: Poisonous Friendship

#42 Post by SomeBody »

Eclipse wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 11:04 pm Yeah, I was about 50/50 on this happening after the last panel, Clovis clearly saw Brutus as a hindrance and wanted to get rid of him, but I wasn't sure if it would happen this soon. It seems like a waste of character development to kill Brutus off this soon, Tom's gone through all this trouble to establish that Brutus is loyal to Clovis just to off him? It feels like that was building up to something larger. I suspect Brutus isn't actually dead yet (Classic Villain Mistake #1: walk away confident your target is dead when they aren't instead of confirming the kill) and Reni indeed might revive him.
SomeBody wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 10:59 pm Yeesh, what's with all the gnashing of teeth and proclamations that they're dropping the comic? Because a character died? People have been dying throughout the comic's run. This isn't some sudden turn to grimdark, this is literally how the comic's been running for a decade.
Character deaths have actually been few and far between in the comic so far. You can count the number of notable characters that have died on one hand, and they've all been in two chapters (this one and Chapter 11). There are grimdark moments in the comic, but it usually isn't this dark and hasn't been for a long while, and the rarity of a character death makes each one notable.
Okay but... is Brutus actually a notable character? I certainly don't think so. He's featured in lots of Tom's Patreon/non-canon work, but I'm pretty sure that's just fans latching on to a character, plus Tom liking the dynamic with Clovis. I would have put most of the people who died in the Bastion arc into the same character-importance category.

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Re: Comic for February 7, 2021: Poisonous Friendship

#43 Post by HiseyLeSnake »

Eclipse wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 11:04 pm Character deaths have actually been few and far between in the comic so far. You can count the number of notable characters that have died on one hand, and they've all been in two chapters (this one and Chapter 11). There are grimdark moments in the comic, but it usually isn't this dark and hasn't been for a long while, and the rarity of a character death makes each one notable.
While he might be one of my favorite characters in the story, I find it hard to call him a notable character yet. All we have really seen for character development is he is on the "evil" side, and is a bit of a doofus that just blindly follows orders. He has been in maybe 10-15 pages, and a few of those as an entirely unidentified combatant/prisoner. So really his character development only begins once we see him in his cell. Hard for me to call a character we see entirely live and die in a single room to be notable (granted there is a chance he doesn't actually die here, I see allot of merit in the theory he will be left for dead but quickly saved)
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Re: Comic for February 7, 2021: Poisonous Friendship

#44 Post by RowanEx »

I think this scared off a few readers because he was a fan favorite, because he looked cute (imo) he shows us part of Clovis when he's not being evil (in non-canon).

Anyway, my headcanon so I don't fully go nuts on seeing what just happened is that Clovis placed Brutus on a permanent dreamless sleep coma, and Reni is going to wake him up or Clovis brings him home instead after wrecking the mansion because Clovis is still a villain with a henchman loyal to him.
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Re: Comic for February 7, 2021: Poisonous Friendship

#45 Post by Bellhead »

sotanaht wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 9:11 pm I for one and VERY glad this happened. The last thing I wanted was some hamfisted attempt to "redeem" clovis to the readers via some gay romance.
As bad as it is to say it, I kinda have to agree. We needed a canon example of just how evil he really is. And as stated by Muon, his evil is real, not some cut-rite cartoon villain. By his words, both last page and this one, make painfully clear that Clovis had some seriously genuine feelings for Brutus. His shudder in panel 2 is proof enough, even without the words or facial expressions he's been making. I don't really know just how much it's affecting him emotionally, I just know it's hitting home. HARD.

He's not just some stereotypical villain, as Alvin-Earthworm seems to campaign for. He clearly had some serious reservations about his actions, and this shows his level of character in a way that could not well be shown otherwise. From his perspective, he HAD to. There was just no other option. Everything he's done up to this point; all the people he's hired, the jobs he's done, the crimes he's committed.. they've all been for the sole explicit purpose of his own self-indulgence and his own personal vendettas. His emotional side sees Brutus as the closest he's ever had to family, while his crime boss side sees that side as weak; something that can be easily manipulated. It was his own emotional attachment that likely forced him to enter the manor in person, and he realized that the presence of one single person made him put himself in that much danger. That person obviously had to go, in his mind. Self-preservation: Remove any source of enemy leverage. He knows how many enemies he has. He's been suppressing those emotions so long that when they finally surface, he's forced to silence them. He's a true psychopath, not just some generic villain. He doesn't need to be redeemable to be a good villain, he just needs to be understandable, and reasonable from his own standpoint, which I feel Clovis has covered very well.

On the subject of Brutus being revived, I suppose that would depend on exactly what Clovis did to him. And no, "Poisonous Friendship" more likely refers in the same vein as a toxic relationship rather than a friend administering poison, though that may or may not be the case here. If it was a simple spell to steal his life energy, Brutus would feel like he's losing energy (Hungry, tired) and would painlessly collapse before he knew what hit him. I mean, it could be poison, or brain damage, or nervous system effects... But my money's on energy drain. If that's the case, it depends on when Reni comes in, and how quickly she can get there, assuming the spell doesn't last after she heals him. Energy can be restored, but if the drain is still there, he'll only collapse again. Would Reni even be able to heal that, with her limited world experience?

Also, we have reason to believe that Clovis knows there's a dragon at the estate, with how he's been watching it. But does he know where she is right now? Does he know she's on her way? Would he assume she'd be the primary prison guard? He might, and if that's the case, his first course of action here would be to ensure that he cannot be revived, and leave as fast as possible. But if not, he might just barely escape with his life, using all his tricks to evade a pursuing dragon. For the story's sake, though, I'll assume he just knows their timeframe.

Text wall. Sorry. Got carried away.

As for a character death, I'll add in that one instance in that book I read in high school (Very specific, I know. I forgot the name.) where there were two characters, a tall, strong, dumb guy and a relatively normal one. The normal one was forced to kill the big guy by other people, did so while the guy was smiling, and pulled the trigger with tears in his eyes. To save himself, he reported that it was self defense to gain their trust. Sad, brutal.. but not an unreasonable circumstance. There was just no other option there. Anyone remember that book? I'm curious now.
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