Comic for February 7, 2021: Poisonous Friendship

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Chicken Man
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Re: Comic for February 7, 2021: Poisonous Friendship

#91 Post by Chicken Man »

ta82220 wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 6:27 pm Been reading for maybe 15 years now and I know this isn't going to be a popular opinion, but the writing has gotten pretty bad recently.

Why kill Brutus? I just don't get the logic behind killing off a character who's appearances are 95% sketches/voting incentives and 5% actually in the comic.

snip

I feel bad for anyone who just started reading or doesn't check the sketches/voting incentives every now and then, because this current chapter is written so much worse than the previous ones.
So the Brutus scene is like General Grievous in the Revenge of the Sith.
Spoiler!
He was a fleshed out bad donkey in the material outside the movies but was a peculiar coughing robot and untimately a disappointment, despite being lauded as incredibly hardcore. You even know why he was a hunching coughing robot if you saw those premium cable shows. No cable, just a movie buff? What is the deal with this hunching, coughing, and untimately weak robot so easily defeated by Obi Wan. Weak.

However, even without backstory on Brutus and less on Clovis for those that did not read the Dragon Masquerade, this does serve as a show don't tell way to inform us of Clovis's messed up thought process. Brutus does reveal his loyalty and high opinion of his boss and Clovis does hint at his feelings for Brutus. Maybe clunky, but we did get all the info about the characters Tom wanted to convey.

The more confusing part is the promotional buildup of this character that is simply unceremoniously killed off after a few appearances. It seems the promotional material was intended to supplement actual in comic appearances to bolster the reader's feeling towards this extremely minor character's death.

Probably more of a marketing faux pas than writing. I've seen these kinds of deaths in film or novels.
Spoiler!

The butcher's boy in Game of Thrones.
But he wasn't hyped or lauded in promotional material. Without the sketches this would have played out like that, I think.
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Re: Comic for February 7, 2021: Poisonous Friendship

#92 Post by Rasol »

ta82220 wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 6:27 pm Been reading for maybe 15 years now and I know this isn't going to be a popular opinion, but the writing has gotten pretty bad recently.

Why kill Brutus? I just don't get the logic behind killing off a character who's appearances are 95% sketches/voting incentives and 5% actually in the comic.

Tom chose to write in this dramatic death of a character that, if you haven't been looking at non-cannon stuff for the past five or so years, has very little relevance in the story. Why should I care that Brutus died? It's just bad filler imo, with the issue being that it's not supposed to be filler. This chapter (much like the last few) has been crawling by and it's honestly pretty annoying that it's gotten to the point where we're waiting months for a death that makes little impact on the story. Clovis is going to become a different person now that Brutus is dead? Okay cool, but like we barely knew what Clovis was like before that. No real character growth, hardly any transformations that the reader can pick up on, just "hey here's that character I've been sketching, also he's dead now." Our perception of Clovis has hardly changed, if at all, with this death.

I feel bad for anyone who just started reading or doesn't check the sketches/voting incentives every now and then, because this current chapter is written so much worse than the previous ones.
Ill try to explain it as best I can here. Brutus was killed, because we needed to understand Clovis. It seems he is going to be made more and more relevant in the story, and Zen's description of him as a "rich prick" doesn't make him dangerous enough. Not in a world where there are Templar super-mages, Keidran warlords, and Bastian generals. The guy was JUST a pampered Keirdran mob boss. He needed to be more. We needed to see just how far he would go in his pursuit of greater power.

This comic showed us Clovis crossing a terrible threshold. Other killings were 'just business' I'm sure. This one was personal. It hurt him. Did you notice he was trembling before he did it? He didn't want to. But in his own, twisted view of reality, he HAD to. Brutus was a loose end. A weakness that could be held against him. He needed to be removed, so Clovis could keep the world at arms length.

As somebody whos own mental issues have caused me to cut off, or push away people when they got too close, for fear that they could hurt me. I get it. I know it's WRONG, but I understand why he did it. Maybe that's why this scene hit me personally.

Also, I find it funny how you all keep acting like the hired killer who probably has a double-digit body count is somehow a 'good boy'. Brutus may be dumb and cheerful, but he was leading the charge to burn the village down. An attack that caused many casualties, and almost killed Maeve. If Trace had not been there, there would have been more casualties & probably more than a few fatalities. So yeah. NOT a good boy.

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Re: Comic for February 7, 2021: Poisonous Friendship

#93 Post by Zaigan »

Rasol wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 7:15 pm Also, I find it funny how you all keep acting like the hired killer who probably has a double-digit body count is somehow a 'good boy'. Brutus may be dumb and cheerful, but he was leading the charge to burn the village down. An attack that caused many casualties, and almost killed Maeve. If Trace had not been there, there would have been more casualties & probably more than a few fatalities. So yeah. NOT a good boy.
Yeah, someone answered "No" when I asked if Brutus was the one who threw the first fireball at Adira. That may be true, it's pretty hard to tell who was who since they were all dressed identically and the way the camera rotates doesn't make full sense to me, but I think Brutus was the one in the middle. We know he was the wolf that got knocked off the wall, I think that was the center one. It may have been the wolf to his right that threw the first fireball, but he was part of the trio casting fireballs at Trace, that Trace even said would destroy half the square if they went off. That would have likely killed Trace, Adira and Maeve at the least in the blast radius.

His relationship with Clovis might have been played for charm, but he was still allied with the villains and willing to hurt innocent people and even kill children for bad causes.
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Re: Comic for February 7, 2021: Poisonous Friendship

#94 Post by Scow2 »

Chicken Man wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 7:03 pm
The more confusing part is the promotional buildup of this character that is simply unceremoniously killed off after a few appearances. It seems the promotional material was intended to supplement actual in comic appearances to bolster the reader's feeling towards this extremely minor character's death.

Probably more of a marketing faux pas than writing. I've seen these kinds of deaths in film or novels.
Spoiler!

The butcher's boy in Game of Thrones.
But he wasn't hyped or lauded in promotional material. Without the sketches this would have played out like that, I think.
What promotional material? The sketches based on patreon suggestions? He got a lot of sketches because people instantly fell in love with the adoorably floofy wolf hunk and his personality.

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Re: Comic for February 7, 2021: Poisonous Friendship

#95 Post by Rasol »

Zaigan wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 8:53 pm Yeah, someone answered "No" when I asked if Brutus was the one who threw the first fireball at Adira. That may be true, it's pretty hard to tell who was who since they were all dressed identically and the way the camera rotates doesn't make full sense to me, but I think Brutus was the one in the middle. We know he was the wolf that got knocked off the wall, I think that was the center one. It may have been the wolf to his right that threw the first fireball, but he was part of the trio casting fireballs at Trace, that Trace even said would destroy half the square if they went off. That would have likely killed Trace, Adira and Maeve at the least in the blast radius.
It doesn't really matter if the fireball that nearly hit Maeve was from Brutus' hand or one of the other wolves. At the end of the day, he participated in the attack on Edinmire. He knew the goal was to kill people, and to start a war between the humans & the wolves.

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Re: Comic for February 7, 2021: Poisonous Friendship

#96 Post by stlsf4003 »

Rasol wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 9:59 pm
Zaigan wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 8:53 pm Yeah, someone answered "No" when I asked if Brutus was the one who threw the first fireball at Adira. That may be true, it's pretty hard to tell who was who since they were all dressed identically and the way the camera rotates doesn't make full sense to me, but I think Brutus was the one in the middle. We know he was the wolf that got knocked off the wall, I think that was the center one. It may have been the wolf to his right that threw the first fireball, but he was part of the trio casting fireballs at Trace, that Trace even said would destroy half the square if they went off. That would have likely killed Trace, Adira and Maeve at the least in the blast radius.
It doesn't really matter if the fireball that nearly hit Maeve was from Brutus' hand or one of the other wolves. At the end of the day, he participated in the attack on Edinmire. He knew the goal was to kill people, and to start a war between the humans & the wolves.
I think this is a close we'll get to see what the real Brutus was like. https://www.deviantart.com/twokinds/art ... -829649033
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Re: Comic for February 7, 2021: Poisonous Friendship

#97 Post by Reesereads »

Oh no- my favorite villain done in by the one I weirdly hoped was into him.

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Re: Comic for February 7, 2021: Poisonous Friendship

#98 Post by AmigaDragon »

Chicken Man wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 12:08 amSPOILER

It's like Marlo in the Wire killing everyone. Eventually he was taken down because people were sick of it. An upstanding police that believed in the job with all his being lied and threw away his career to stop the senseless killings and took down Marlo. If not for the police, however, no matter how powerful Marlo was the instant someone else came along most of the street would have jumped ship. Ruthlessness does not build loyalty. Or Joffrey for that matter. After the worst of the War of Five Kings was over he wanted to kill Stannis's men that surrendered to him. Tywin told him if he did that no one would ever surrender and declare him king. In fact killing Ned caused the North to feel that way and doing it to Stannis's former lords would send their vassals and kids right back to Stannis and start the worst of war right back up again.
I have no idea who any of these are, from what.
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Re: Comic for February 7, 2021: Poisonous Friendship

#99 Post by Technic[Bot] »

Chicken Man wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 7:03 pm
ta82220 wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 6:27 pm Been reading for maybe 15 years now and I know this isn't going to be a popular opinion, but the writing has gotten pretty bad recently.

Why kill Brutus? I just don't get the logic behind killing off a character who's appearances are 95% sketches/voting incentives and 5% actually in the comic.

snip

I feel bad for anyone who just started reading or doesn't check the sketches/voting incentives every now and then, because this current chapter is written so much worse than the previous ones.
So the Brutus scene is like General Grievous in the Revenge of the Sith.
Spoiler!
He was a fleshed out bad donkey in the material outside the movies but was a peculiar coughing robot and untimately a disappointment, despite being lauded as incredibly hardcore. You even know why he was a hunching coughing robot if you saw those premium cable shows. No cable, just a movie buff? What is the deal with this hunching, coughing, and untimately weak robot so easily defeated by Obi Wan. Weak.

However, even without backstory on Brutus and less on Clovis for those that did not read the Dragon Masquerade, this does serve as a show don't tell way to inform us of Clovis's messed up thought process. Brutus does reveal his loyalty and high opinion of his boss and Clovis does hint at his feelings for Brutus. Maybe clunky, but we did get all the info about the characters Tom wanted to convey.

The more confusing part is the promotional buildup of this character that is simply unceremoniously killed off after a few appearances. It seems the promotional material was intended to supplement actual in comic appearances to bolster the reader's feeling towards this extremely minor character's death.

Probably more of a marketing faux pas than writing. I've seen these kinds of deaths in film or novels.
Spoiler!

The butcher's boy in Game of Thrones.
But he wasn't hyped or lauded in promotional material. Without the sketches this would have played out like that, I think.
I am kinda jealous of the kids in 2075 who will be able to read the comic complete in a single, or at most a couple, sitting. As someonw who read around the first 14 years of the comic in the span of two weeks i can attest it is a completely different experience from the slow drip we are all used to at this point. But at the same time, they won't get it to discuss it and rumiate about every single page like us, nor they can experience how the comic affects the sketches and viceversa. Whereas their experience will be much more purist and complete i think ours is way more interesting thanks to the social aspect.
Rasol wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 9:59 pm
Zaigan wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 8:53 pm Yeah, someone answered "No" when I asked if Brutus was the one who threw the first fireball at Adira. That may be true, it's pretty hard to tell who was who since they were all dressed identically and the way the camera rotates doesn't make full sense to me, but I think Brutus was the one in the middle. We know he was the wolf that got knocked off the wall, I think that was the center one. It may have been the wolf to his right that threw the first fireball, but he was part of the trio casting fireballs at Trace, that Trace even said would destroy half the square if they went off. That would have likely killed Trace, Adira and Maeve at the least in the blast radius.
It doesn't really matter if the fireball that nearly hit Maeve was from Brutus' hand or one of the other wolves. At the end of the day, he participated in the attack on Edinmire. He knew the goal was to kill people, and to start a war between the humans & the wolves.
I do not think Brutus is, err was, by any measure a morally good person. Far from it probably he has killed more people than Team A and B combined, sans Trace of course. And that he would [ ok this turned out to be more graphic than I expected ] Maeve or [ok this is kinda of worse] Flora if Clovis just as much hinted he wante him to do it. Yet he is not like clovis or his other henchmen. Clovis is only motivated by greed and by the obsessively feeling himself strong and safe, hence he kille brutus. Carver was a sadist, happy to see team a suffocate on a magic bubble. Romulus and Remus are like in only for the money and Nat and Zen are assasins only because they need to survive. Yet Brutus kill to protect his boss, out of loyalty and frienship. Perhaps his feelings are misguided and by no means this makes him "good" but i do believe his intentions are... were much more noble than the rest.
On the other hand i wonder what did Clovis did for Brutus for him to attach so strongly to him?
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Re: Comic for February 7, 2021: Poisonous Friendship

#100 Post by Warrl »

Technic[Bot] wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 2:53 amHe had at least the decency of killing him softly and he will return the favor.
But how well can Brutus or Clovis sing?

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Re: Comic for February 7, 2021: Poisonous Friendship

#101 Post by Chicken Man »

What promotional material? The sketches based on patreon suggestions? He got a lot of sketches because people instantly fell in love with the adoorably floofy wolf hunk and his personality.
People make suggestions on Patreon sketches?

He wasn't even promoted? Just sketched because paying supporters liked him? What about the time he tried to kill the other slightly less minor character, Maeve? The other one people keep asking for sketches about. Brutus had no qualms hurling a fireball at a child. Or eating a chicken!
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Re: Comic for February 7, 2021: Poisonous Friendship

#102 Post by DragnMastralex »

Well that was just horrible.
does Clovis at least get his manda Sharingan from this?

you know considering this is Traces magical house that traps souls and reanimates the dead... not sure what Clovis just did was a smart thing. the houses defenses went up the moment Clovis broke in after all. its going to use whatever magical abilities it has to try and stop him. I'm just spit ballin here but I think we may see a Clovis vs undead Brutus fight incoming wher Brutus isn't himself and his body is being manipulated by the Shadow Trace. Just sayin

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Re: Comic for February 7, 2021: Poisonous Friendship

#103 Post by Sky Shatter »

Weighing back in, I was a bit shocked but respectful of this direction. While I know there's more, three kinds of villains come to mind.
- The sort of Saturday morning cartoon villain that's evil because, "Haha, I'm evil!"
- The sort that do large-scale socially reprehensible things for morally-questionable reasons.
- The sort that do small atrocities because they are morally deplorable.

This first is what we give to children to define black and white.
The second is what we like as adults, because it makes us question perspective.
The third is normally taboo, and the backlash here shows why. It hits close to the fears we have of what we could run into in the dark alleys of real life.

I applaud Tom for setting the stage to reveal Clovis as the third. We read comics to be entertained, but that's also why we ride roller coasters. Excitement can be brought from fear, so a comic can do that too.

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Re: Comic for February 7, 2021: Poisonous Friendship

#104 Post by Dfgming »

Im not shocked at all. But i cant say that I saw it coming before the last page. But Id probably say he was probably planning on doing that when he got his amulet.

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Re: Comic for February 7, 2021: Poisonous Friendship

#105 Post by Yastreb »

On the positive, at least this page has sparked more discussion than any since "Rediscovering Yourself" in 2016.

Seriously though, I think Clovis is really using some kind of poison spell. The green smoke seems to be coming from a ring with a small green stone in it, and poison rings are a popular trope. This would simply be a magical version of that. And I really really hope Brutus is dead. If he survives somehow it would be taking the A-team effect way too far.

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