Comic for February 7, 2021: Poisonous Friendship

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Eclipse
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Re: Comic for February 7, 2021: Poisonous Friendship

#76 Post by Eclipse »

Bellhead wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 7:55 pm While I understand it from a story standpoint, I just don't see it happening. Even right up to the end, Brutus was happy to see him, and seemed to have no reservations about trusting him. If he was brought back, he'd make his own excuses about how his caring boss would come back for him eventually. And keep in mind, Brutus is dumb. Like, REALLY dumb.

Even if he did realize Clovis killed him, he wouldn't be able to do much, even with help, aside from maybe ruining his image if he decided to share his history with him, but even that is unlikely, given that he is a prisoner of war right now.
As dumb as Brutus is, if he were to wake up he would know that Clovis abandoned him and that wouldn't make sense to him after he just came back for him. That would be enough for him to question his loyalty to Clovis.

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stlsf4003
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Re: Comic for February 7, 2021: Poisonous Friendship

#77 Post by stlsf4003 »

Eclipse wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 9:43 pm
Bellhead wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 7:55 pm While I understand it from a story standpoint, I just don't see it happening. Even right up to the end, Brutus was happy to see him, and seemed to have no reservations about trusting him. If he was brought back, he'd make his own excuses about how his caring boss would come back for him eventually. And keep in mind, Brutus is dumb. Like, REALLY dumb.

Even if he did realize Clovis killed him, he wouldn't be able to do much, even with help, aside from maybe ruining his image if he decided to share his history with him, but even that is unlikely, given that he is a prisoner of war right now.
As dumb as Brutus is, if he were to wake up he would know that Clovis abandoned him and that wouldn't make sense to him after he just came back for him. That would be enough for him to question his loyalty to Clovis.
That's assuming Clovis didn't also wipe his mind as sort of a backup should the poisoning have failed to do the job.
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Zaigan
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Re: Comic for February 7, 2021: Poisonous Friendship

#78 Post by Zaigan »

Bellhead wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 7:55 pm
multilis wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 7:26 pm It would also be poetic justice that Clovis got rid of loyal Brutus to get rid of a weakness but instead created the fatal weakness by turning the guy who knew him best into an enemy.
While I understand it from a story standpoint, I just don't see it happening. Even right up to the end, Brutus was happy to see him, and seemed to have no reservations about trusting him. If he was brought back, he'd make his own excuses about how his caring boss would come back for him eventually. And keep in mind, Brutus is dumb. Like, REALLY dumb.

Even if he did realize Clovis killed him, he wouldn't be able to do much, even with help, aside from maybe ruining his image if he decided to share his history with him, but even that is unlikely, given that he is a prisoner of war right now.
Ah, I could definitely see the possible that a fully revived Brutus might forgive or excuse Clovis' actions. Maybe. He certainly did not want to die, and seemed uneasy on the prospect. Still, it isn't unheard of that the most devoted of minions are willing to die for their master's whim. He could fall in that regard.

Alternatively though, he might be revived without his full sense of self. That can happen too, especially if raised by an evil force, like Detritus. If his body reanimates, but he doesn't fully have his heart, it could be much easier for him to finish off his former employer.
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Re: Comic for February 7, 2021: Poisonous Friendship

#79 Post by stlsf4003 »

I don't know about you, but I think one undead wolf in the manor is enough for me at the moment!
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Re: Comic for February 7, 2021: Poisonous Friendship

#80 Post by Chicken Man »

Alea wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 11:30 pm Is anyone else just... not understanding Clovis's plan here?
Unless he has another motive I'm not seeing, why would you break into the estate, guarded by a Grand Templar & a Dragon, just to kill two of your own henchmen & kidnap someone (Zen) who you could have taken much earlier?
When you put it that way...

What is Clovis's plan? Does he really think he's an all powerful whatever? Plus, rich as he is, are his men going to really take his money or want to work for him if he keeps killing them for seemingly silly reasons? Or if he punishes them so severely for failing?

SPOILER

It's like Marlo in the Wire killing everyone. Eventually he was taken down because people were sick of it. An upstanding police that believed in the job with all his being lied and threw away his career to stop the senseless killings and took down Marlo. If not for the police, however, no matter how powerful Marlo was the instant someone else came along most of the street would have jumped ship. Ruthlessness does not build loyalty. Or Joffrey for that matter. After the worst of the War of Five Kings was over he wanted to kill Stannis's men that surrendered to him. Tywin told him if he did that no one would ever surrender and declare him king. In fact killing Ned caused the North to feel that way and doing it to Stannis's former lords would send their vassals and kids right back to Stannis and start the worst of war right back up again.

Considering how much he loved Brutus it may have endeared his people to him to show his caring side. He's just going to end up like


SPOILER
Scar from the Lion King, having his own men turn on him for not valuing them enough. Maybe Brutus himself has better constitution than Clovis thought and will sacrifice himself to kill Clovis. Like hold him under a falling roof and they both crush. Such a fate befits a person like that.

If not Brutus at least the rest of Clovis's men should stand by and let him be killed by Natani or Zen or Trace or Keith. Maybe even Raine. They should quote Clovis when he said he wasn't turning the cow back into a wolf.

"Help me, men"
"No."
"I've paid you all handsomely! Why won't you help?!"
"Because it's funny."
Close up eyeball realizing he's screwed shot and maybe an offscreen SHUK followed by his killer above his corpse.

Scene.
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Tyger42
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Re: Comic for February 7, 2021: Poisonous Friendship

#81 Post by Tyger42 »

TheMouse wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 7:03 pm I hate that we called this. I wanted so badly to be wrong.
Good boi deserved so much better. (;_;)

Also....your avatar always makes me smile.

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Re: Comic for February 7, 2021: Poisonous Friendship

#82 Post by Technic[Bot] »

Bellhead wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 7:55 pm
multilis wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 7:26 pm It would also be poetic justice that Clovis got rid of loyal Brutus to get rid of a weakness but instead created the fatal weakness by turning the guy who knew him best into an enemy.
While I understand it from a story standpoint, I just don't see it happening. Even right up to the end, Brutus was happy to see him, and seemed to have no reservations about trusting him. If he was brought back, he'd make his own excuses about how his caring boss would come back for him eventually. And keep in mind, Brutus is dumb. Like, REALLY dumb.

Even if he did realize Clovis killed him, he wouldn't be able to do much, even with help, aside from maybe ruining his image if he decided to share his history with him, but even that is unlikely, given that he is a prisoner of war right now.
It is no secret i would prefer to Clovis to die at the hands of Brutus in the most Roman(tic?) way possible. But I am not sure our Good Boy would be up for it.
If her is revived, by any mean I do not think he is stupid enough to not realize Clovis killed him. The poor guy would be heart broken, his best friend, the person he cared the most just offed him. He would die again out of heartache. On the other hand he is not smart enough to realize that Clovis did it despite actually caring for him, hence the whole soft death. Which on a second thoguht would actually make him even sadder, it is one thing he was killed because Clovis did not cared about him and another thing if he killed him despite caring deeply about him

If he somehow is revived and somehow overcome being bretrayed by his best friend I could se him realizing Clovis cares for nothing more than himself, despite being capable to. And grants him a gentle death: He wont let the humans/templars/guards slave/kill/humilliate him. He had at least the decency of killing him softly and he will return the favor.
stlsf4003 wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 10:51 pm I don't know about you, but I think one undead wolf in the manor is enough for me at the moment!
Ditto
Chicken Man wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 12:08 am
Alea wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 11:30 pm Is anyone else just... not understanding Clovis's plan here?
Unless he has another motive I'm not seeing, why would you break into the estate, guarded by a Grand Templar & a Dragon, just to kill two of your own henchmen & kidnap someone (Zen) who you could have taken much earlier?
When you put it that way...

What is Clovis's plan? Does he really think he's an all powerful whatever? Plus, rich as he is, are his men going to really take his money or want to work for him if he keeps killing them for seemingly silly reasons? Or if he punishes them so severely for failing?
-'Snip-
Scene.
As i mentioned some post weeks ago, Clovis is a comic book villain. A good written one but a comic book villain at the end. As you say Ruthlessnes does not build loyalty and money only buys so much. But since he is only a comic book mafia boos he does not need to worry about the real world logistics of operating a crime syndicate. Yes you will be ruthless but you will care about your men if only because you need them to get the job done

Also we have a spoiler tag:
Spoiler!
See?
And no i do not think your post needed spoiler tags to hide over a decade old spoilers but it may prove usefull in the future.
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Re: Comic for February 7, 2021: Poisonous Friendship

#83 Post by ibneko »

I know we're all jumping to "Clovis killed Brutus", but what's the possibility that the magic we saw was a sleep spell + mind-wipe? It would still be a goodbye for Clovis.

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Re: Comic for February 7, 2021: Poisonous Friendship

#84 Post by MaverickMopete »

ibneko wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 4:49 am I know we're all jumping to "Clovis killed Brutus", but what's the possibility that the magic we saw was a sleep spell + mind-wipe? It would still be a goodbye for Clovis.
We're just jumping to the most logical conclusion based on both the events of the comic and the title.

"Poisonous Friendship" doesn't leave much to the imagination.

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Re: Comic for February 7, 2021: Poisonous Friendship

#85 Post by stlsf4003 »

MaverickMopete wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 5:28 am
ibneko wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 4:49 am I know we're all jumping to "Clovis killed Brutus", but what's the possibility that the magic we saw was a sleep spell + mind-wipe? It would still be a goodbye for Clovis.
We're just jumping to the most logical conclusion based on both the events of the comic and the title.

"Poisonous Friendship" doesn't leave much to the imagination.
I second that.

As much as we would like to think otherwise, the big guy's gone. Clovis put his Lieutenant down in the most humane way he could and though he doesn't want to show it, it was a hard choice to make that seems to have shaken him some what.

Check his current status on the wiki. It's a veritable tombstone now REDACTED
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Re: Comic for February 7, 2021: Poisonous Friendship

#86 Post by Hayate »

stlsf4003 wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 5:55 amCheck his current status on the wiki. It's a veritable tombstone now: https://twokinds.fandom.com/wiki/Brutus
I hate to inform you that this isn't exactly an official source...
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Re: Comic for February 7, 2021: Poisonous Friendship

#87 Post by stlsf4003 »

Hayate wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 7:14 am
stlsf4003 wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 5:55 amCheck his current status on the wiki. It's a veritable tombstone now: https://twokinds.fandom.com/wiki/Brutus
I hate to inform you that this isn't exactly an official source...
Right, sorry about that. ^^;
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Re: Comic for February 7, 2021: Poisonous Friendship

#88 Post by Tyger42 »

MaverickMopete wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 5:28 am
ibneko wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 4:49 am I know we're all jumping to "Clovis killed Brutus", but what's the possibility that the magic we saw was a sleep spell + mind-wipe? It would still be a goodbye for Clovis.
We're just jumping to the most logical conclusion based on both the events of the comic and the title.

"Poisonous Friendship" doesn't leave much to the imagination.
Also based on Clovis' personality. Clovis has been well established to be ruthless.

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Re: Comic for February 7, 2021: Poisonous Friendship

#89 Post by Pallais »

While I am sorry to lose Brutus, I understand why Clovis is portrayed this way. It shows how evil Clovis is and how Clovis deals with his own weakness. Instead of sending Brutus away or overcoming the temptation he just kills off Brutus to remove his 'problem'. Instead of painful growth as a person and possibly changing, Clovis cuts off a part of his life to stay exactly the same as his current self image.

It is also an interesting counterpoint to the evil Trace did. Keeping Rose alive beyond her normal lifespan, setting up the trap for Maren. This is another situation where someone does or, at least, sets up a horrible situation to prevent / undo a painful change. It's an attempt to keep everything as it was instead of grieving and moving where life will go over time.

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Re: Comic for February 7, 2021: Poisonous Friendship

#90 Post by ta82220 »

Been reading for maybe 15 years now and I know this isn't going to be a popular opinion, but the writing has gotten pretty bad recently.

Why kill Brutus? I just don't get the logic behind killing off a character who's appearances are 95% sketches/voting incentives and 5% actually in the comic.

Tom chose to write in this dramatic death of a character that, if you haven't been looking at non-cannon stuff for the past five or so years, has very little relevance in the story. Why should I care that Brutus died? It's just bad filler imo, with the issue being that it's not supposed to be filler. This chapter (much like the last few) has been crawling by and it's honestly pretty annoying that it's gotten to the point where we're waiting months for a death that makes little impact on the story. Clovis is going to become a different person now that Brutus is dead? Okay cool, but like we barely knew what Clovis was like before that. No real character growth, hardly any transformations that the reader can pick up on, just "hey here's that character I've been sketching, also he's dead now." Our perception of Clovis has hardly changed, if at all, with this death.

I feel bad for anyone who just started reading or doesn't check the sketches/voting incentives every now and then, because this current chapter is written so much worse than the previous ones.

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