Should Tom finnaly dress Kathrin up?

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Yttrium
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Should Tom finnaly dress Kathrin up?

#1 Post by Yttrium »

Just to be clear, I love Kathrin. Love her. But I think She'd look better if she wasn't drawn nude every the time because it makes her look like she is a sex fiend. I don't think it's very good character progression if she keeps being sexualized like that and I really don't think kathrin wants to be a whore. What do you thinkm

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Re: Should Tom finnaly dress Kathrin up?

#2 Post by Technic[Bot] »

I think Tom is trying to be ironic with her character. She is innocent character of the bunch and she is self concious about how other people see her, but at the same time she was breed as a sex slave and goes around naked most of the time. Which I think it is a rather hamfisted way to get that point across. At the end of the day i have no idea why Kat was created and/or maintained as a long term character. I do not even know if there was a reason at all, other than having a sexy kitty lady around. And there are a lot of plot points that revolve around here that confuse me for example, as i mentioned she was breed as a sex slave and sold once they realized she was sterile. Implications are horrible and do set the tone of the world the comic lives in, albeit, in my apinion, much darker than it was intended by the author.

And for the record I would prefer if she wore something even if just because Tom has shown he can draw some very appealing garments, modern or otherwise.
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Re: Should Tom finnaly dress Kathrin up?

#3 Post by Bellhead »

I have a few points to add.

Namely, it's kinda part of Kat's character that she doesn't really wear clothes, though lately (in comic) we've seen her wear her apron, during most of the ship happenings, and most recently with Zen, she wore a shirt. Granted not by her own desire, but still.

I'll also add this. Kat was never sold, nor bought. Her innocence mostly seems to stem from her lack of personal experience of the life she was bred for, though she definitely knows about it. She's naive, but not oblivious. It's pretty clear she has her own wants and desires aside from Eric, and her mind isn't exactly one-dimentional.

She was bred as a concubine, raised as a little sister without a care in the world, and has never been able to reach for a dream of her own until this point in her life. Granted, it might be nice to see her in clothes from time to time, but I think her character could be very important to not only how Eric views things, since he will truly listen to her, but also how Mike and Evals may choose to proceed. As I see it, she's the type of person who's usually soft-spoken and submissive in domestic situations, so when she speaks up, her words have power, though even she is still realizing that.

Also, clothes or not, dat fur pattern, tho. :wink:
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Re: Should Tom finnaly dress Kathrin up?

#4 Post by Chicken Man »

Because fanservice.


I don't care for her, personally. But when I saw that hen OMG. Then she turned into a wolf.

Why Tom did you take away my favorite character?

Seriously, though I think we have enough naked Kathrin. Maybe put clothes on her then put the naked shots on Patreon cuz $$$.

I won't contribute till we get more hens on there, though. Ones that don't turn into wolves.
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Re: Should Tom finnaly dress Kathrin up?

#5 Post by Technic[Bot] »

Bellhead wrote: Sun Jan 31, 2021 8:51 pm I have a few points to add.

Namely, it's kinda part of Kat's character that she doesn't really wear clothes, though lately (in comic) we've seen her wear her apron, during most of the ship happenings, and most recently with Zen, she wore a shirt. Granted not by her own desire, but still.

I'll also add this. Kat was never sold, nor bought. Her innocence mostly seems to stem from her lack of personal experience of the life she was bred for, though she definitely knows about it. She's naive, but not oblivious. It's pretty clear she has her own wants and desires aside from Eric, and her mind isn't exactly one-dimentional.

She was bred as a concubine, raised as a little sister without a care in the world, and has never been able to reach for a dream of her own until this point in her life. Granted, it might be nice to see her in clothes from time to time, but I think her character could be very important to not only how Eric views things, since he will truly listen to her, but also how Mike and Evals may choose to proceed. As I see it, she's the type of person who's usually soft-spoken and submissive in domestic situations, so when she speaks up, her words have power, though even she is still realizing that.

Also, clothes or not, dat fur pattern, tho. :wink:
I think it has been implied that she actually enjoys not wearing clothes. Only on side sketches thought so the canonicity of that is shakey at best.

I also did not wanted to imply Kat has no character. Far from it. I have always insisted Tom talent is characterization, narrative suffers a bit. And as most of the cast Kat feels like a real person with personality, interests and fear beyond what we see. I would link a quite by Mr Moun but the comment is already tangential as it is. However i do believe she was introduced to the comic as fan service and had to be "retrofitted" a full fledged personality and a character arc down the line, not sure what is the latter thought.
I initially thought she was simply Eric sex slave and that she may help him get new merchandise, she goes to port seduce a couple Keidran and the next thing they know is they are slaves. I also believed that she, nor Eric for that matter. Would survive the basitin isles chapters. I am glad I was wrong on that one.

Also i call inconsistency. Eric says she was born into his family, which would also imply he, or his family, are into breeding sex slaves, kinda on character but yikes. But her Character Sheet says she was breed and meant to be sold as a slave but eventually saved by Eric who purchased her from his brother. So who did what?
Also despite Eric doting Kat as a little sister I remember the few times we saw Eric brother he was quite mean to her, he did not even bothered to give her a name, her infancy was probably better than Mike for example but not for much.

Finally If I may put my περνερτ hat on. I really like her looks and not only I really like how Tom draws clothes but sometimes it is not what you show but what you don't show.
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Re: Should Tom finnaly dress Kathrin up?

#6 Post by Warrl »

Bellhead wrote: Sun Jan 31, 2021 8:51 pmI'll also add this. Kat was never sold, nor bought.
Except within the family.
Technic[Bot] wrote: Mon Feb 01, 2021 4:49 am Also i call inconsistency. Eric says she was born into his family, which would also imply he, or his family, are into breeding sex slaves, kinda on character but yikes. But her Character Sheet says she was breed and meant to be sold as a slave but eventually saved by Eric who purchased her from his brother. So who did what?
Easy.

Has it occurred to you that Eric is a bit young to have built a shipping empire?

He didn't (in my headcanon - I can't point at anything even slightly definitive in the comic). Nor did his brother build it, or a slave-breeding empire. Their father did - or maybe their father inherited it from an ancestor, or some combination thereof. And then, as all fathers eventually do but some sooner than others, their father died.

In dividing up the family estate, it was decided that Eric, showing a bit of wanderlust (and perhaps having demonstrated some skill or talent for it already), would get the shipping empire while his brother Roderic, being more inclined to stay put (and same comment regarding skill and talent) would get the slaves. How Eric got the house, I'm not sure - maybe Roderick had already moved out and established his own residence. And then Eric bought Kat from Roderick.
Also despite Eric doting her as a little sister I remember the couple times we saw Eric brother he was quite mean to her, he did not even bothered to give her a name, her infancy was probably better than Mike for example but not that much.
Yeah, I've seen similar things happen between blood siblings raised together. But it's also fairly common that "nobody but ME gets to abuse my sibling like that!", which we've seen a bit of in Eric. And that often ends up with "yeah, big brother, you were an [censored] when we were kids - but you grew out of it!"

----

Now as for clothing... why the emphasis on Kat?

We often saw Flora nude, both before she started to show the pregnancy and after she stopped trying to hide it.

Being stuck as the property of Eric the perv, it's perfectly understandable that Mike and Evals would prefer to be clothed. Likewise, Sythe - being a diplomat - would probably follow human customs when among humans, and it isn't the smartest thing to go traipsing through the woods or into combat with your twig and berries exposed to all the twigs and berries on the plants a bit below waist height. (Meta reason: among mammals, male genitalia is usually harder to hide in fur than female genitalia.)

And it's obvious why we don't often see Natani nude in public.

But we've seen plenty of other female keidran unclothed. And clothed in stuff obviously designed to highlight, rather than conceal, their "assets".

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Re: Should Tom finnaly dress Kathrin up?

#7 Post by aitaituo »

I mean, most of the keidran cast is nude or half nude. It's explicitly a cultural thing, not to mention that they have fur. If we've been seeing more clothed keidran, it's probably because they're in disguise, on a diplomatic mission to prudish humans that think all keidran are turbosluts, or Natani\Sythe, both of whom have personal reasons for wanting to wear full clothing.

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Re: Should Tom finnaly dress Kathrin up?

#8 Post by Technic[Bot] »

Warrl wrote: Mon Feb 01, 2021 6:53 pm
Bellhead wrote: Sun Jan 31, 2021 8:51 pmI'll also add this. Kat was never sold, nor bought.
Except within the family.
Technic[Bot] wrote: Mon Feb 01, 2021 4:49 am Also i call inconsistency. Eric says she was born into his family, which would also imply he, or his family, are into breeding sex slaves, kinda on character but yikes. But her Character Sheet says she was breed and meant to be sold as a slave but eventually saved by Eric who purchased her from his brother. So who did what?
Easy.

Has it occurred to you that Eric is a bit young to have built a shipping empire?

He didn't (in my headcanon - I can't point at anything even slightly definitive in the comic). Nor did his brother build it, or a slave-breeding empire. Their father did - or maybe their father inherited it from an ancestor, or some combination thereof. And then, as all fathers eventually do but some sooner than others, their father died.

-snip-
I am not sure about his father is dead. But I agree his trading/slaving company is not something he created. Dead or not his parents likely gave him his ships and other assets, either so he could strike it in his own or so he could practice before inheriting the whole company.

In any case that also implies that perhaps not him but his family are into breeding slaves, not only that but breeding slave concubines. Which again, makes sense but Dear god....
Warrl wrote: Mon Feb 01, 2021 6:53 pm Now as for clothing... why the emphasis on Kat?

We often saw Flora nude, both before she started to show the pregnancy and after she stopped trying to hide it.

Being stuck as the property of Eric the perv, it's perfectly understandable that Mike and Evals would prefer to be clothed. Likewise, Sythe - being a diplomat - would probably follow human customs when among humans, and it isn't the smartest thing to go traipsing through the woods or into combat with your twig and berries exposed to all the twigs and berries on the plants a bit below waist height. (Meta reason: among mammals, male genitalia is usually harder to hide in fur than female genitalia.)

And it's obvious why we don't often see Natani nude in public.

But we've seen plenty of other female keidran unclothed. And clothed in stuff obviously designed to highlight, rather than conceal, their "assets".
Probably for the reasons we are thinking about.
Most of the characters spend a good amount of time unclothed. In the case of Zen, Sythe and any of the male cast whenever they go au natural, despite being naked most of us do not find it weird for the same reason Bugs Bunny (I lack a more recent example) looks normal and acceptable to us despite being naked most of the time, he looks cartoony and we eventually got used to him looking like that. Besides Zen and co always wear pants, and masculine nudity is relatively acceptable for most people as long as nothing gets too explicit.
Flora given her errrm "constrained proportions" makes is easier to ignore her whenever she goes "As Tom drew her into this world" as there is nothing too "distracting" in her figure, which may change as her pregnancy advances. Natani is another can of worms entirely and finally then we have Kat, her figure is hard to ignore and that is by design so any conversation around whether Tom drawing have too much or too little clothing are gonna gravitate towards her.

In any case I would not mind if Tom decided to give Kat a more permantent outfit, for all the wrong reasons, but I am also ok with her current design.
On a related note I do think Tom almost stumbled across an interesting narrative device with Kat:
At some point Kat mentions that "she knows what expectations people have about" her, that "they are not wrong" and that she does not particulary like it Mr Bell linked tha page I am talking about.
A couple hundred pages before we saw her laying in bed with Eric, eventually we learned he was simply trying to teach her how to read, with porn allegedly, but at that point we all thougth she was only a sex toy. The only "real evidence" of her being a "pleasure keidran" or the like was that page but most of us would have belived it anyways. So the people that "had expectations" on Kat based on her figure were not only other characters around her, it was also us, the readers.
So the point was: "yes she looks like that, no she is not that. those are your biases talking" and I did felt a bit bad about this whole image I had of Kat, based almost exclusevely on her figure, which turned out not to be true. And interesting turn i did not expected. It is kinda of hard to make the readers really feel something like that.
aitaituo wrote: Wed Feb 03, 2021 9:36 pm I mean, most of the keidran cast is nude or half nude. It's explicitly a cultural thing, not to mention that they have fur. If we've been seeing more clothed keidran, it's probably because they're in disguise, on a diplomatic mission to prudish humans that think all keidran are turbosluts, or Natani\Sythe, both of whom have personal reasons for wanting to wear full clothing.
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Re: Should Tom finnaly dress Kathrin up?

#9 Post by Spazoid »

Well...she's had a shirt on for the last three years...

Honestly, the full or partial nudity doesn't bother me much... 1) I'm a bit of a perv anyway, 2) nothing REALLY shows because of the fur (no nipples or vulva...just a lot of tush, and you can see almost as much on any beach in the real world), 3) she was going to be a sex slave, so full nudity would be appropriate for...ease of access, 4) the tail makes partial nudity on the bottom a necessity re any clothing, 5) this isn't a porno comic like The Cummoner, and 6) as others have pointed out, casual nudity -- partial or full -- seems to be a cultural thing among the various Keidran species, and the humans are clearly used to it.

Besides, as the Saria/Rose pics in the gallery showed, clothing sometimes makes it worse!!

Kat looks fine either totally nude or with the shirt...same for the apron. It certainly works better with the improved artwork from the early days -- just compare Kat's intro page with the reworked one...impressive improvement in execution and page composition. You'd expect that at some point in a 17 year run, but some artists never really improve (Anne Onymous of The Wotch is a good example, although I found a certain charm in the artwork anyway).
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Re: Should Tom finnaly dress Kathrin up?

#10 Post by FuryoftheStars »

I've actually found Kat to be hotter with the shirt.... *cough* >.>

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Re: Should Tom finnaly dress Kathrin up?

#11 Post by Rasol »

I don't think its really about sexualization of the characters. For the most part, most Keidran run around in the nude. Clothing is a thing the more prudish races, such as the Humans, and even more so, the Bastin do.

As for her relationship with Eric, they have admitted to a little experimentation with eachother in the past, but as Eric has said before, he cant do that anymore, because he views her as his 'little sister' a view she very much opposes. Enough so that she 'took revenge' by giving away some of Erics more expensive fabrics to Natani when she made that snazzy outfit she has now. That wasn't Kat being generous, that was Kat being just a little vindictive about Eric brushing off her advances like that.

In the end, I hope Eric wakes up, and realizes that Kat ISNT just some pet that he can keep around. For all his supposed understanding of Keidran, as well as his general perviness, he doesnt seem to grasp how Kat feels. From what we've been told & shown, Keidran aren't like humans. Their social views on sex are more lax, but at the same time sex IS important to them for different reasons. It's how they bond with those they are close to. Eric brushing off Kat's affections while still keeping her around as a 'little sister' shows that he has little to no consideration of HER feelings on the matter. It would be like suddenly refusing to give a family member a hug, or not giving even a passive kiss to your SO. It HURTS. (Taken from experience) And its not like the so called "Keidran expert" can even claim ignorance on the social differences in how sex is viewed either. He should know better than ANYONE.

In other words, Eric is either full of writing mistakes, or is a massive hypocrite (and a huge jerk), and need a wake up call..

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Re: Should Tom finnaly dress Kathrin up?

#12 Post by Technic[Bot] »

Spazoid wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 4:11 pm
Besides, as the Saria/Rose pics in the gallery showed, clothing sometimes makes it worse!!
Why do you think I would prefer to see her clothed? *
That beign said I am not much of a fan of her semi transparent shirt + no pants combo. Strucks me as too simple and plain clashes with her color scheme and the transparency is to much "in your face"
As some point out whenever we have seen Keidran clothes it "accentuates" their "attributes" instead of conceal them.

*That got me a one way ticket to the perv box...
Rasol wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 11:36 pm I don't think its really about sexualization of the characters. For the most part, most Keidran run around in the nude. Clothing is a thing the more prudish races, such as the Humans, and even more so, the Bastin do.

As for her relationship with Eric, they have admitted to a little experimentation with eachother in the past, but as Eric has said before, he cant do that anymore, because he views her as his 'little sister' a view she very much opposes. Enough so that she 'took revenge' by giving away some of Erics more expensive fabrics to Natani when she made that snazzy outfit she has now. That wasn't Kat being generous, that was Kat being just a little vindictive about Eric brushing off her advances like that.

In the end, I hope Eric wakes up, and realizes that Kat ISNT just some pet that he can keep around. For all his supposed understanding of Keidran, as well as his general perviness, he doesnt seem to grasp how Kat feels. From what we've been told & shown, Keidran aren't like humans. Their social views on sex are more lax, but at the same time sex IS important to them for different reasons. It's how they bond with those they are close to. Eric brushing off Kat's affections while still keeping her around as a 'little sister' shows that he has little to no consideration of HER feelings on the matter. It would be like suddenly refusing to give a family member a hug, or not giving even a passive kiss to your SO. It HURTS. (Taken from experience) And its not like the so called "Keidran expert" can even claim ignorance on the social differences in how sex is viewed either. He should know better than ANYONE.

In other words, Eric is either full of writing mistakes, or is a massive hypocrite (and a huge jerk), and need a wake up call..
Clearly clothing or lack thereof is an stablished part of the lore and Keidran culture in particular. Thought not sure world building and contrasting Keidran/human culture and sensibilities was what Tom had in mind when he decided that part of the lore.

For Eric i think it is supposed to be Ironic. He is supposedly a female Keidran expert and amateur pervert but it is incapable of noticing Kat feelings. In any case even if he noticed what he is to do with tha information, he clearly stated he sees Kat simply as a sibling and "loves"(?) her accordingly nothing more.
On the other hand he is a pampered rich guy, a merchant and profesional slave trader and his family allegedly breeds sex slaves to boot. I think it is better Kat looks for companionship elsewhere. He is indeed a hypocrite, calls Kat her sister but had not freed her before. A jerk at best and a sociopath at worst, he had not even considered what he did is bad until Kat brougth it to him whith the whole Mike/evals debacle. He had to go to the other end of his world and had a tower explode on him to start considering that his career is not particularly good nor moral or ethical. And he needs a wake up call because despite agreeing to free Mike and Evals he still "thinking about it" he still has not realized how horrible what he does is!
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Re: Should Tom finnaly dress Kathrin up?

#13 Post by Tom »

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Re: Should Tom finnaly dress Kathrin up?

#14 Post by Spazoid »

Tom wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 1:09 am Image
There are SOOOOOO many sketches I would love to see fully rendered in color!
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Re: Should Tom finnaly dress Kathrin up?

#15 Post by Technic[Bot] »

That is... Well... Uhm mm..
Let's just say I did not expected to see that when I woke up this morning.
I am not complaining thought.
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