Comic for January 21, 2021: The Value of Brutus

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Alvin-Earthworm
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Re: Comic for January 21, 2021: The Value of Brutus

#31 Post by Alvin-Earthworm »

Bellhead wrote: Sat Jan 23, 2021 7:55 pm -snip-
Well the only real way to find out is to let the chips fall where they may. But I'll stand firmly in my belief that if Clovis went to all this effort to save Brutus only to kill him later, that is just poor and contrived writing.

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Re: Comic for January 21, 2021: The Value of Brutus

#32 Post by steelabjur »

Alvin-Earthworm wrote: Sat Jan 23, 2021 6:46 pm
Rasol wrote: Sat Jan 23, 2021 5:52 pm No. Brutus is dead. Unless something happens that manages to save him from Clovis, he is dead.
Nope, Wrong! Go back and read my previous posts.

If Brutus was such an emotional liability to Clovis he would have ended him right there and then along with Roan. There is literally no point for him to play the long con like that (Other than contrived reasons).
Agreed, it also ignores the fact that Clovis told his two other minions the last time we saw him (which would have been what, minutes for them?) that he didn't need one of them with him to protect him because he'd have Brutus with him soon. If he wanted to remove the "weakness" of Brutus, I feel he wouldn't have hugged him or opened the cage. Heck, he might not have come in person. He's a "rich prick" with many lackeys, he could have easily went back through the riftwall gate and sent back some assassins to do the job instead of risking his "powdered butt" (as you put it). Clovis seems to be the type who would want the break clean.

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Re: Comic for January 21, 2021: The Value of Brutus

#33 Post by Lordadmiral Drake »

Now, that was unexpected ^^
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Re: Comic for January 21, 2021: The Value of Brutus

#34 Post by Bellhead »

steelabjur wrote: Sat Jan 23, 2021 11:11 pm
Alvin-Earthworm wrote: Sat Jan 23, 2021 6:46 pm
Rasol wrote: Sat Jan 23, 2021 5:52 pm No. Brutus is dead. Unless something happens that manages to save him from Clovis, he is dead.
Nope, Wrong! Go back and read my previous posts.

If Brutus was such an emotional liability to Clovis he would have ended him right there and then along with Roan. There is literally no point for him to play the long con like that (Other than contrived reasons).
Agreed, it also ignores the fact that Clovis told his two other minions the last time we saw him (which would have been what, minutes for them?) that he didn't need one of them with him to protect him because he'd have Brutus with him soon. If he wanted to remove the "weakness" of Brutus, I feel he wouldn't have hugged him or opened the cage. Heck, he might not have come in person. He's a "rich prick" with many lackeys, he could have easily went back through the riftwall gate and sent back some assassins to do the job instead of risking his "powdered butt" (as you put it). Clovis seems to be the type who would want the break clean.
... I COMPLETELY forgot about that line. You're right. If his intentions were to kill him here and now, he wouldn't have said that to Romulus and Remus, unless that was some long and convoluted plan, but even that wouldn't make it logical to tell those two about it. Their intentions were... what, exactly? Kill Zen, kidnap Natani... anything else? I think that would have been it, aside from rescuing Brutus. If he truly intended to kill Brutus down there, he likely wouldn't have even mentioned it to the others, and left it a mystery to them as to what happened to him, but they know, and given that they had essentially no reaction to it, they already knew. And his intentions were to free "the others" from the dungeons.

Ugh. Too many pieces fit. *facepalm* How the frig did I forget that...

Everyone in Clovis' guild must know about Brutus being the top henchman. If Brutus were to die where it was known that Clovis was closest, it would cause some serious push-back, and loyalty issues. They all surely know how loyal he is, and if he were to die at Clovis' hands and the others found out about it... It's a bad move, any way you look at it. But I maintain that Clovis will do something drastic regarding Brutus. Just not here, not now.
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Re: Comic for January 21, 2021: The Value of Brutus

#35 Post by Rasol »

I DIDN'T forget what he told Romulus & Remus. But two things to keep in mind.

1. Clovis is a liar. He will say whatever he feels he needs to to keep things moving according to his plans
2: Romulus & Remus are lackeys. Telling them the reason was going to be to have him kill Brutus would be counter-productive. It would dis-incentivize loyalty.

This isn't business. For Clovis, it's personal. Brutus is quickly becoming a loose end, and Clovis has decided he needs to cut it off before it snags.

Notice the use of past tense in the last lines he speaks.

"A weakness I’ve allowed myself to tolerate."

Clovis has moved PAST those feelings. Or rather he sees them as no longer valid. He is no longer allowing himself to tolerate this weakness.

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Re: Comic for January 21, 2021: The Value of Brutus

#36 Post by Technic[Bot] »

Well considering killing his most loyal man Brutus would make his men morale and shakey loyalty crumble.
So he goes in telling them he will save Brutus. Once he comes back empty handed he tells them he was already dead. He then massacres the "responsible" something he was gonna do regardless but now has the nice effect that his men are led to believe he does care for them in his own weird way
His weakness is gone his men morality and loyalty take a boost it is win-win situation for every but brutus and Roan

That being said even if he honestly wanted to save Brutus simply so he could cuddle with him at night. I am pretty sure they will have a reckoning soon. Clovis will eventually have to decide what he loves more, himself or Brutus most l ikely before the chapter ends. This scenario sounds more interesting if I am being honest
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Re: Comic for January 21, 2021: The Value of Brutus

#37 Post by Bellhead »

And now I'm sitting square on the fence. Thanks.

Stupid logic, messing with my mind and stuff...
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Re: Comic for January 21, 2021: The Value of Brutus

#38 Post by jacobc62 »

Let me throw a wrench into this whole mess: Clovis intends on killing Brutus, but told Remus and Romulus that he intends to free Brutus to move things along while betting on both perishing in their attempt to kill Zen and kidnap Natani. He easily kills Brutus, and makes his getaway before any of the heroes can corner him, and afterwards he could just as easily tell any of his men back at base that he was the only survivor from the "failed" attack. With no other lackeys there to verify Clovis' story (Roan roasted to ash, the twins dead, Sam remaining as a cow, and Brutus slain), it would actually be a victory since his one "true" weakness is now gone. Sure, Zen and/or Natani would more than likely not have been killed (or worse), but if the twins were at the very least partially successful in their task prior to their ends, then it would just be a bonus for Clovis at that point.






Just going to point out that I'm on the "hoping that Brutus isn't betrayed by Clovis" team here.
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Re: Comic for January 21, 2021: The Value of Brutus

#39 Post by steelabjur »

jacobc62 wrote: Sun Jan 24, 2021 3:31 am Let me throw a wrench into this whole mess: Clovis intends on killing Brutus, but told Remus and Romulus that he intends to free Brutus to move things along while betting on both perishing in their attempt to kill Zen and kidnap Natani. He easily kills Brutus, and makes his getaway before any of the heroes can corner him, and afterwards he could just as easily tell any of his men back at base that he was the only survivor from the "failed" attack. With no other lackeys there to verify Clovis' story (Roan roasted to ash, the twins dead, Sam remaining as a cow, and Brutus slain), it would actually be a victory since his one "true" weakness is now gone. Sure, Zen and/or Natani would more than likely not have been killed (or worse), but if the twins were at the very least partially successful in their task prior to their ends, then it would just be a bonus for Clovis at that point.






Just going to point out that I'm on the "hoping that Brutus isn't betrayed by Clovis" team here.
He left one of the twins guarding the door, if he intended to be the sole survivor that means he'd have to kill that guy on his way out himself, with the inhabitants of the Grand Templar's estate (one of which is a dragon, and another the Grand Templar himself) potentially knowing of his invasion/attack at any moment due to the other one being sent after "Zenny". Clovis isn't one to take personal risks normally, and he's not a fighter. Given that he felt sad over Brutus' apparent death by dragon swat off wall, he has even less reason to put himself at risk to do it himself. He has the means and resources (and access to the Riftwall portal) that he could have just sent minions to kill Brutus (and Zen, for that matter) and pin the fact he was captured as the reason; "Brutus knows too much about our operation. Silence him." His minions wouldn't blink an eye at that, it's common knowledge that Brutus is his "Right-Hand Wolf" and personal bodyguard.

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Re: Comic for January 21, 2021: The Value of Brutus

#40 Post by stlsf4003 »

I'm honestly getting the impression that Clovis intends to kill Brutus. While he does seem to care for his number two wolf on a deep level, He personally views that attachment as a weakness that will just hold him back.

But due to said attachment, he couldn't bear to see Brutus suffer a slow panful death. No, if he was gonna do it, it would be as quick and painless as possible.

I could see it playing out like this.

After pulling Brutus into a warm embrace as he seems to be doing in the last panel. He draws a dagger and with a lightning quick thrust drives the blade through Brutus' chest and into his heart, leaving the poor wolf wide eyed as he glances at the blood oozing from around the embedded blade and back to the sorrowful face of Clovis. As the light leaves his eye's, all he can muster to say is simply "....B....Boss?" He then slumps forward into Clovis' arms, never to move again.
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Re: Comic for January 21, 2021: The Value of Brutus

#41 Post by Alvin-Earthworm »

You guys that are riding the "himbo gunna die" bandwagon aren't making a lick of sense. Especially the ones that are also theorizing that Clovis is going to somehow orchestrate the demise of Romulus and Remus as well.
Do you honestly think he'd personally go to all this effort just to rid himself of three good wolves. One of which that is loyal to a fault.
Rasol wrote: Sun Jan 24, 2021 12:55 am Notice the use of past tense in the last lines he speaks.

"A weakness I’ve allowed myself to tolerate."

Clovis has moved PAST those feelings. Or rather he sees them as no longer valid. He is no longer allowing himself to tolerate this weakness.
Or the more logical conclusion is he has fully embraced those feelings. It probably takes a lot for a complete narcissist to admit they love someone other than themself.

I can't honestly imagine Clovis saying something like "Show even a hint of disloyalty and I'll kill you. But don't show too much loyalty or I'll also kill you".
Do you even notice how asinine that sounds?

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Re: Comic for January 21, 2021: The Value of Brutus

#43 Post by Kyrit »

jacobc62 wrote: Sun Jan 24, 2021 3:31 am Let me throw a wrench into this whole mess: Clovis intends on killing Brutus, but told Remus and Romulus that he intends to free Brutus to move things along while betting on both perishing in their attempt to kill Zen and kidnap Natani. He easily kills Brutus, and makes his getaway before any of the heroes can corner him, and afterwards he could just as easily tell any of his men back at base that he was the only survivor from the "failed" attack. With no other lackeys there to verify Clovis' story (Roan roasted to ash, the twins dead, Sam remaining as a cow, and Brutus slain), it would actually be a victory since his one "true" weakness is now gone. Sure, Zen and/or Natani would more than likely not have been killed (or worse), but if the twins were at the very least partially successful in their task prior to their ends, then it would just be a bonus for Clovis at that point.






Just going to point out that I'm on the "hoping that Brutus isn't betrayed by Clovis" team here.
They aren't supposed to be killing Zen. They're supposed to be taking him based on the conversation the twins were having. There's no way Clovis would have one of them just kill him, especially not without being there. He holds far too much of a grudge. Meanwhile Natani was never even mentioned in his plans, strange as it is.

I'm not against those that think it's possible/probable that Brutus might die here (by Clovis or not), but if Clovis is going to kill him he definitely sent them away so they wouldn't know he did it and could then "avenge" him as someone else said to keep up appearances with his men.

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Re: Comic for January 21, 2021: The Value of Brutus

#44 Post by Technic[Bot] »

Yeah he was adamant that he did not wanted anyone else coming with him with not even as protection.

He probably wanted privacy either to have no witnesses to his killing, and probably spin the rest of the mission as sort of an avenging operation. Or so he could have a private and personal moment (not like that) and confess his feelings to his favorite wolf boy.
Now that I mention that I Wonder if he planned to kill Roan regardless of his apparent lack of loyalty

Either way we known this is personal. He could kill or free Brutus without involving himself. But due to his feelinns to him is not something he wont do himself.
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Re: Comic for January 21, 2021: The Value of Brutus

#45 Post by Bellhead »

Kyrit wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 12:55 am Meanwhile Natani was never even mentioned in his plans, strange as it is.
Not entirely true.
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