What Will Happen Next After Everyone Leaves the Estate?

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Re: What Will Happen Next After Everyone Leaves the Estate?

#16 Post by Technic[Bot] »

Eclipse wrote: Fri Nov 06, 2020 2:02 am -snip-
Technic[Bot] wrote: Thu Nov 05, 2020 1:21 am In any case i think Trace soon to be objective will be to stop the war from starting in the first place, which will necessarily make him and everyone else to not go to Lyn'Knoll. Personally i feel the comic will end around the same time Flora gives birth. When Brahn is stopped, Trace has reconciled with his past and the war has been adverted all with too much time hopping.
I doubt it, that'd be somewhat anticlimactic if the war is averted. It's been hinted at and the story is building up to it, so if it just ends without happening that wouldn't be as satisfying an ending. Also, it's not as simple as just taking down Brahn, there's also the Master Mage, he could promote underlings that Trace and co. have to deal with (Brahn is proclaiming himself the new Grand Templar, maybe he forms a new group of Master Templar under him?), and we still don't know to what degree Euchre and Sirus are allies (Euchre himself seems to imply the two of them might become enemies down the road). And even after all that, the Masks might step in as well. This is going to be one huge mess and I doubt it's stopped before it's started.

-snap-
I omitted Brahn's company because i forgot about themout of brevity. Also I forgot about something else Trace can't stop the war from happening,as it already begun, Edinmire only "looks peacefull" since the border with the wolves is far away.
But you do point out an interesting point: what about the mask? For them this is just a game and I do not know the rules but it seems ephemural is cheating. And as a game they probably do not want the war to stop, where is the fun in that? What is there to stop them to reset everything, or worse throw everything out the window. Once the game is not working like the want to?

Anyhow what I tried to said, and failed, is that despite me not liking the idea of a timeskip there may be good narrative reasons to have one and there seems to be already a precedent for it. (Timeskip to Trace defending lynknoll from the war)
Bellhead wrote: Sun Nov 08, 2020 12:20 am I just want to pop in here real quick, since I've been thinking about it. On the subject of time skips and character development:

There are definitely certain things, certain... defining moments... that cannot be simply glossed over. Keith and Nat's first kiss, Eric's "like a sister" comment, things like that. Those must happen in comic to be of note, else they will not have anywhere near the same effect. There are other things, though, such as a group traveling together and bonding over doing so, that can simply be covered with a plain "A few weeks/months later". Group B did that fairly well, as they left their village and the tavern to head to Lyn'Knoll, which was several hundred miles away, and they're now in Edinmire. By the world map, that was a long trek without much exposition. Granted, not much happened during that period, save for them just being acquaintances, but the relation between Sythe and the group went from "He's a soldier who tried to kill us, now he's following us" to "I'll hunt us some dinner. Fish alright with you guys?" And that didn't really get much of an explanation other than the time skip, and him being part of the group during it.

It's definitely possible to have some fairly significant changes in group dynamic, structure, character behavior, or pretty much anything else that we'd figure was going to happen. It can also open the door for a sudden unexpected change, leading the reader to wonder what happened, until someone "comes clean" and confesses what the heck happened. I don't see that happening here, though, at least not in the "this is how things are now, and you don't know why muahaha" kind of way.

A time skip after this chapter is inevitable, given the distance to Lyn'Knoll from where they are. But it could be anywhere from a day at a time for several pages, to a year or more, depending on how Tom wants to play it. I'd wager it to be close to a week skipped, due to monotonous travel time, interrupted by the occasional Keidran tribe, wild animal, abandoned village, etc. But without a skip of some kind, they'd reach their destination somewhere around 2030, and I really don't see Tom dragging this out that long.
I can see after the whole manor blows to bits they end up traveling for quite a time to somewhere, either away from the conflict or towards it. hiven the stressful situation they just went thought they do not talk much and thus we get a time-skip of a couple months as they lick their wound and come to terms to what just happend.

On the other hand there is still the door/portal/riftwall at Adira's tavern they could use that to cover a lot of terrain very fast, thought maybe not in the desired direction.
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Re: What Will Happen Next After Everyone Leaves the Estate?

#17 Post by TheMasterOfOats »

Technic[Bot] wrote: Tue Nov 03, 2020 1:22 am
TheMasterOfOats wrote: Mon Nov 02, 2020 5:43 pm I am 1000% sure this isn't happening but a small part of me wants to see it get blown up... like Natani goes nuke mode on it, because why not.
I am pretty sure someone is gonna go nuclear this chapter. My money is on Trace thought. Failing that Raine.
Reading the most recent page the likelihood of this happening has gone up significantly.
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Re: What Will Happen Next After Everyone Leaves the Estate?

#18 Post by Eclipse »

MatyMaty wrote: Sat Nov 07, 2020 11:36 pm A time skip would mean all of those things wouldn't happen in the comic and instead just be told through exposition, and that would be a huge waste of storytelling (And lets not forget Raine's jorney to control her magic). I just don't see the comic just losing all of those chances for character growth just for Maeve to become more important. Maeve might get lots of Patreon sketches, but in the comic she's even below Eric, Mike and Evals in story importance. Heck, I'd see the story focusing more on Adira and how she gets out of the trouble she is in, than on Maeve. Also, other than the manor issue, the main storyline seems to be the war with the wolves, and how the tigers allied with the templars against them thanks to Clovis. I don't see how a timeskip would add to that.
Again, it's not necessary that those things would be skipped, those could happen before the time skip. To clarify, I don't think a timeskip will happen immediately after this chapter, I'm thinking it'll take maybe another 3-5 chapters before we reach the timeskip. Plenty of time to address all of this development. I'm just looking long term at the big picture for the rest of the story.
MatyMaty wrote: Sat Nov 07, 2020 11:36 pm We don't know what's going on with Adira. For what we know, she might just be in jail in Edinmire. I don't see Maeve just abandoning her mother in jail to go on adventures with Trace. Not to say how irresponsible would from Trace to take a child into dangerous situations. If that were to happenn I'm sure Trace and co would stay in Edinmire until Adira was set free, or they helped break her out of jail. If we assume the new panoramic drawing contains canon elements, then it looks like Adira will be freed and Maeve will stay in the tavern. I guess I just fail to see the interest in making Maeve grow up and become a protagonist, when she's alright being a seconday child character.
No, you're not getting it. Maeve wouldn't abandon Adira in jail, she'd want to get Trace's help and tag along with him to save her. That's what triggers her into adventuring with Trace.
Bellhead wrote: Sun Nov 08, 2020 12:20 am I just want to pop in here real quick, since I've been thinking about it. On the subject of time skips and character development:

There are definitely certain things, certain... defining moments... that cannot be simply glossed over. Keith and Nat's first kiss, Eric's "like a sister" comment, things like that. Those must happen in comic to be of note, else they will not have anywhere near the same effect. There are other things, though, such as a group traveling together and bonding over doing so, that can simply be covered with a plain "A few weeks/months later". Group B did that fairly well, as they left their village and the tavern to head to Lyn'Knoll, which was several hundred miles away, and they're now in Edinmire. By the world map, that was a long trek without much exposition. Granted, not much happened during that period, save for them just being acquaintances, but the relation between Sythe and the group went from "He's a soldier who tried to kill us, now he's following us" to "I'll hunt us some dinner. Fish alright with you guys?" And that didn't really get much of an explanation other than the time skip, and him being part of the group during it.

It's definitely possible to have some fairly significant changes in group dynamic, structure, character behavior, or pretty much anything else that we'd figure was going to happen. It can also open the door for a sudden unexpected change, leading the reader to wonder what happened, until someone "comes clean" and confesses what the heck happened. I don't see that happening here, though, at least not in the "this is how things are now, and you don't know why muahaha" kind of way.

A time skip after this chapter is inevitable, given the distance to Lyn'Knoll from where they are. But it could be anywhere from a day at a time for several pages, to a year or more, depending on how Tom wants to play it. I'd wager it to be close to a week skipped, due to monotonous travel time, interrupted by the occasional Keidran tribe, wild animal, abandoned village, etc. But without a skip of some kind, they'd reach their destination somewhere around 2030, and I really don't see Tom dragging this out that long.
I'm not talking about that type of timeskip, we get those type of timeskips all of the time. I'm talking about a longer and more significant one where the entire story jumps forward several years. In this case, it would be skipping over the war and several years of unnoteworthy battles that we really don't need to know immediately to understand what's happening in the story (although yes, there could be room for some flashbacks).
Technic[Bot] wrote: Sun Nov 08, 2020 3:50 am
Eclipse wrote: Fri Nov 06, 2020 2:02 am -snip-
Technic[Bot] wrote: Thu Nov 05, 2020 1:21 am In any case i think Trace soon to be objective will be to stop the war from starting in the first place, which will necessarily make him and everyone else to not go to Lyn'Knoll. Personally i feel the comic will end around the same time Flora gives birth. When Brahn is stopped, Trace has reconciled with his past and the war has been adverted all with too much time hopping.
I doubt it, that'd be somewhat anticlimactic if the war is averted. It's been hinted at and the story is building up to it, so if it just ends without happening that wouldn't be as satisfying an ending. Also, it's not as simple as just taking down Brahn, there's also the Master Mage, he could promote underlings that Trace and co. have to deal with (Brahn is proclaiming himself the new Grand Templar, maybe he forms a new group of Master Templar under him?), and we still don't know to what degree Euchre and Sirus are allies (Euchre himself seems to imply the two of them might become enemies down the road). And even after all that, the Masks might step in as well. This is going to be one huge mess and I doubt it's stopped before it's started.

-snap-
I omitted Brahn's company because i forgot about themout of brevity. Also I forgot about something else Trace can't stop the war from happening,as it already begun, Edinmire only "looks peacefull" since the border with the wolves is far away.
But you do point out an interesting point: what about the mask? For them this is just a game and I do not know the rules but it seems ephemural is cheating. And as a game they probably do not want the war to stop, where is the fun in that? What is there to stop them to reset everything, or worse throw everything out the window. Once the game is not working like the want to?

Anyhow what I tried to said, and failed, is that despite me not liking the idea of a timeskip there may be good narrative reasons to have one and there seems to be already a precedent for it. (Timeskip to Trace defending lynknoll from the war)

Oh yes, the masks definitely want the war to continue. It feeds right into their divine pissing contest. So in the very end of the comic I could see something like them wanting to wipe Mekkan from existence and start over in the very end of the comic.

Side note: It's a pretty good bet that the masks started all of this mess to begin with. We haven't found out who it was that killed Saria and triggered Trace into becoming Magic Hitler, but the human mask (Chaos?) definitely benefitted from that the most, so he probably had something to do with it.

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Re: What Will Happen Next After Everyone Leaves the Estate?

#19 Post by Technic[Bot] »

Eclipse wrote: Sun Nov 08, 2020 3:32 pm
Technic[Bot] wrote: Sun Nov 08, 2020 3:50 am
I omitted Brahn's company because i forgot about themout of brevity. Also I forgot about something else Trace can't stop the war from happening,as it already begun, Edinmire only "looks peacefull" since the border with the wolves is far away.
But you do point out an interesting point: what about the mask? For them this is just a game and I do not know the rules but it seems ephemural is cheating. And as a game they probably do not want the war to stop, where is the fun in that? What is there to stop them to reset everything, or worse throw everything out the window. Once the game is not working like the want to?

Anyhow what I tried to said, and failed, is that despite me not liking the idea of a timeskip there may be good narrative reasons to have one and there seems to be already a precedent for it. (Timeskip to Trace defending lynknoll from the war)

Oh yes, the masks definitely want the war to continue. It feeds right into their divine pissing contest. So in the very end of the comic I could see something like them wanting to wipe Mekkan from existence and start over in the very end of the comic.

Side note: It's a pretty good bet that the masks started all of this mess to begin with. We haven't found out who it was that killed Saria and triggered Trace into becoming Magic Hitler, but the human mask (Chaos?) definitely benefitted from that the most, so he probably had something to do with it.
I has been mentioned it was basically a non-descript highway robbery that went wrong. I honestly kinda prefer it that way, life sometimes just [censored] you over without being part of some grand scheme. You can't affect that and cant change it but you can decide how to process and get stuck over it or move with your life.
Alas we know mask are prone to intervene in the game, despite being implied that is cheating. Trace is meantioned to be the human mask "champion" and Ephemeral was simply gonna straight up kill Trace before he come up with the whole Flora idea.
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Re: What Will Happen Next After Everyone Leaves the Estate?

#20 Post by Yastreb »

Technic[Bot] wrote: Sun Nov 08, 2020 3:50 am But you do point out an interesting point: what about the mask? For them this is just a game and I do not know the rules but it seems ephemural is cheating. And as a game they probably do not want the war to stop, where is the fun in that? What is there to stop them to reset everything, or worse throw everything out the window. Once the game is not working like the want to?
We know the masks have been playing the same game for 2000+ years, so I don't think they would start over just because one or two of them don't like how things are going at the moment.

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Re: What Will Happen Next After Everyone Leaves the Estate?

#21 Post by Warrl »

And considering that the dragons allegedly predate the masks... to what extent COULD the masks reset everything?

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Re: What Will Happen Next After Everyone Leaves the Estate?

#22 Post by Bellhead »

Warrl wrote: Tue Nov 10, 2020 4:19 pm And considering that the dragons allegedly predate the masks... to what extent COULD the masks reset everything?
I'd wager they could simply end all living things on the planet, if they did so choose. If they managed to end this game of theirs, I bet that's what they'd do, given that we don't have any stories of an ancient war resulting in total genocide of any particular race. Wars, sure, but I'd expect that based on the nature of their "game". Their history seems to not extend before Year 0, so either they made a whole new planet, which I doubt considering the presence of pre-Mask-Game dragons, or they managed to simply "wipe the slate clean", as it were.
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Re: What Will Happen Next After Everyone Leaves the Estate?

#23 Post by Technic[Bot] »

Bellhead wrote: Tue Nov 10, 2020 4:24 pm
Warrl wrote: Tue Nov 10, 2020 4:19 pm And considering that the dragons allegedly predate the masks... to what extent COULD the masks reset everything?
I'd wager they could simply end all living things on the planet, if they did so choose. If they managed to end this game of theirs, I bet that's what they'd do, given that we don't have any stories of an ancient war resulting in total genocide of any particular race. Wars, sure, but I'd expect that based on the nature of their "game". Their history seems to not extend before Year 0, so either they made a whole new planet, which I doubt considering the presence of pre-Mask-Game dragons, or they managed to simply "wipe the slate clean", as it were.
Maybe not "all living things" as they seem to have no authority with dragons but they are most likely capable of returning the whole world to a similar state as when they started they game. Which in practical purposes would mean to wipe every keidran, human and basitin from the face of their planet with any trace of their civilization and start over.
One the other hand if they might decide to stop playing altogether. Which is a worse since they would just kill everyone and leave like that.
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Re: What Will Happen Next After Everyone Leaves the Estate?

#24 Post by aitaituo »

Having long played board games with an inveterate cheater, I can say tossing the board is more likely to happen by the cheater than the other players.

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Re: What Will Happen Next After Everyone Leaves the Estate?

#25 Post by Yastreb »

Bellhead wrote: Tue Nov 10, 2020 4:24 pm
Warrl wrote: Tue Nov 10, 2020 4:19 pm And considering that the dragons allegedly predate the masks... to what extent COULD the masks reset everything?
I'd wager they could simply end all living things on the planet, if they did so choose. If they managed to end this game of theirs, I bet that's what they'd do, given that we don't have any stories of an ancient war resulting in total genocide of any particular race. Wars, sure, but I'd expect that based on the nature of their "game". Their history seems to not extend before Year 0, so either they made a whole new planet, which I doubt considering the presence of pre-Mask-Game dragons, or they managed to simply "wipe the slate clean", as it were.
Mekkan is 3000-4000 years old. We don't know exactly when the masks started playing, but I'm pretty sure they have been going at it for much more than just 600 years. About 2000 is what I recall.

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Re: What Will Happen Next After Everyone Leaves the Estate?

#26 Post by Technic[Bot] »

Yastreb wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 2:01 pm
Bellhead wrote: Tue Nov 10, 2020 4:24 pm
Warrl wrote: Tue Nov 10, 2020 4:19 pm And considering that the dragons allegedly predate the masks... to what extent COULD the masks reset everything?
I'd wager they could simply end all living things on the planet, if they did so choose. If they managed to end this game of theirs, I bet that's what they'd do, given that we don't have any stories of an ancient war resulting in total genocide of any particular race. Wars, sure, but I'd expect that based on the nature of their "game". Their history seems to not extend before Year 0, so either they made a whole new planet, which I doubt considering the presence of pre-Mask-Game dragons, or they managed to simply "wipe the slate clean", as it were.
Mekkan is 3000-4000 years old. We don't know exactly when the masks started playing, but I'm pretty sure they have been going at it for much more than just 600 years. About 2000 is what I recall.
If i remember correctly the planet, and dragons predate the mask by a fair bit. Although never has been mentioned by how much. They created the 3 races because they forgot their DnD set at home 4000 years ago and have been playing them since. I think the oldest living being in the comic we know of is Nora around 2000 years.
In any case take all that with a grain of salt, i may not be remembering correctly, my sources might be faulty and since this is still pretty much non-canon an "word of god" it can change at any time without warning.
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Re: What Will Happen Next After Everyone Leaves the Estate?

#27 Post by Eclipse »

The masks would definitely want to wipe out the Humans, Keidran, and Basitin if they stop fighting. So I could easily see them being the final antagonists in the story after Trace defeats the Templar.

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Re: What Will Happen Next After Everyone Leaves the Estate?

#28 Post by Yastreb »

Eclipse wrote: Sun Nov 15, 2020 1:54 pm The masks would definitely want to wipe out the Humans, Keidran, and Basitin if they stop fighting. So I could easily see them being the final antagonists in the story after Trace defeats the Templar.
Maybe they would, but how patient are they? What if even a century of world peace before fighting resumes would be just a brief annoyance to them? We don't know.

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Re: What Will Happen Next After Everyone Leaves the Estate?

#29 Post by Technic[Bot] »

Yastreb wrote: Mon Nov 16, 2020 3:28 pm
Eclipse wrote: Sun Nov 15, 2020 1:54 pm The masks would definitely want to wipe out the Humans, Keidran, and Basitin if they stop fighting. So I could easily see them being the final antagonists in the story after Trace defeats the Templar.
Maybe they would, but how patient are they? What if even a century of world peace before fighting resumes would be just a brief annoyance to them? We don't know.
Again from backroom non-canon material. Mask already had to intervene once. Turns out hybrids were possible back when they started the game and turns out the races were more interesting in "making love" than "making war" so mask actually had to restrict hybridization as I imagine that really screwed with their scoring system. So maybe if they see the pieces no longer want to be played as they want they may considering dropping them for something else more suitable for their game instead of just waiting.
Again take this with a grain of salt as its canonicity is up for debate.
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Re: What Will Happen Next After Everyone Leaves the Estate?

#30 Post by Eclipse »

I'm continuing this discussion here because this is more to the topic.
Zaigan wrote: Sat Mar 20, 2021 11:20 pm
Eclipse wrote: Sat Mar 20, 2021 9:36 pm
stlsf4003 wrote: Sat Mar 20, 2021 9:22 pm I don't know about ya'll, But I think we're heading into the comic end game here. characters gonna start dropping left right and center.
I doubt it. The comic probably isn't going to end until the Templar are defeated and there's still so many plot holes and various other unexplored elements left in the comic (Brahn/his daughter and the Master Mage, who hasn't even appeared yet, Trace and Flora's plans to go to Lyn'knoll, saving Adira and whatever's she's hiding about the Riftwell Tavern, Mrs. Nibbly's identity, the birth of Trace and Flora's child, Carver being stranded with the Western Basitins, Euchre and Sirus' motives, Kat's potential love traingle with Eric and Zen, Mike and Evals' differing goals). If this story is coming to an end soon, it would feel really rushed and/or incomplete. There's room for at least 3-5 more chapters, maybe more depending on what happens next. I don't think we're anywhere close to the end. In fact, I think we might be closer to the halfway point. Just because a lot of characters are dying and SOME plot points are coming together doesn't mean we're reaching the end.
Even if there are a few more chapters, this could still be end game (or more appropriately, the climax), with some stuff to wrap it up. A potential love triangle isn't a story thread, actually, that's more of a resolution. Eric feels like Kat is a sister, so there's no love triangle, he doesn't share her feelings, and Zen is a chance to move on. Mike and Evals will resolve their goals in the epilogue. The epilogue could probably end on the birth of Trace and Flora's child with us never even seeing it, which would be an awful tease, but also a good ending point. We should be allowed to see it though. Carver being stranded with the Western Basitins is enough of an ending for a super minor villain.

Nibs' identity could be revealed at the end of this chapter, or a conclusion. Reaching Lyn'knoll, which is right next door to Trace's manor also sounds like denouement chapter after the climax.

I think that the Clovis stuff will end, the manor and Trace having to make peace with his past will come down here. Next chapter will be confronting Brahn and Co, who were working with Clovis, so that leads in nicely. Euchre and Sirus will also probably come back in there for that storyline. They will have to rescue Adira, which I am not sure where that will fit in, but then the team will decide if they are still going to head to Lyn'knoll or try to make this new blended community work. Even though Lyn'knoll is a good dream, there's also a lot of value to the work being done in this town, and maybe staying around, manning up to change the world instead of flee from it has value too. So the last chapter would be the epilogue where we see the decisions the characters made to bring them to their happy endings and can close out on like, the birth of Trace and Flora's child.
Again, that would feel rushed. Most of these character development plots have taken at least a chapter to get through, so wrapping all of that up in 3 chapters is a stretch. Kat would need at least one chapter to think over how she feels about Eric and Zen (and no, just because Eric isn't interested doesn't mean there's no love triangle, if Kat is still interested and Zen is interested in Kat but doesn't feel the same, that's still a love triangle) and probably another to deal with the fallout. Evals will probably spend at least one chapter trying to go to dog lands without Mike. Trace and Flora's child is probably not going to be saved for the epilogue, that's an event that has such massive implications on the story that it would probably have several chapters focusing on it. Carver probably would be a minor villain, but I think the importance of that plotline is less about Carver himself and more about the Western Basitins, we've barely seen them and what they're like, so we could see a chapter or two where several Western Basitins are added to the story. Nibs' identity would demand at least one chapter, where we learn exactly who she is and what she's doing. And I doubt the Templar will simply be defeated in one more chapter where they fight against Brahn. It feels too easy for a major army to be defeated in basically two battles and by a small ragtag group, even one that has super powerful mages like Trace and Raine (speaking of which, that's another plotline that would demand a chapter or two, do you really think Raine will get things under control that quickly?). And again, we still haven't even seen the Master Mage.

I think you're seriously underestimating how long it would take some of these plotlines to be resolved. Furthermore, you're also not considering that the resolution of one plotline could open up new ones. Plot lines such as Evals going to dog lands, Trace and Co. investigating whatever's going on with Riftwall Tavern, and Carver being stranded with the Western Basitins, ones that involve completely new settings and characters, could lead to entirely new plotlines. Those characters could easily be doing something completely unrelated to the current plot and they could end up resolving one plot line while opening up a completely new one. And that could extend this story far beyond the 3-5 chapters it could take to resolve the current plot lines. That's why I don't think we're even close to the end.

I think after the current arc with Clovis and Brahn attacking the Estate is over, I think Trace will want to travel around Mekkan trying to ally with various factions of Humans, Keidran, and Basitins, showing them he's a changed man and trying to raise an army to defeat the Templar and help him clean up his mess. And that's going to take much more than a few chapters, you're talking at least 10-15 now. Hence, I think it's closer to the halfway point.

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