Comic for June the 20th, 2020

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Ddraig
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Re: Comic for June the 20th, 2020

#46 Post by Ddraig »

Dadrobit wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 8:57 pm
Yastreb wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 3:18 pm
Dadrobit wrote: Sun Jun 21, 2020 11:41 am Aye, I personally am from the same camp. I don't care if it's "legal" (and yeah, that "joke" REALLY didn't age well) or not. I don't particularly care if the body is "mature" or not. The fact of the matter is that a person who is only 11 years old is someone who still only has 11 years of life experience. They are mentally still just an 11 year old. Regardless of how much their matured body might push them towards sex, it's still inevitably an icky scenario.
Age of consent is not just about life experience. Human brain is still developing when you are 11 and there are major changes that happen over the teenage years. Keidran brain presumably matures faster, reaching its adult state at ~9 instead of ~20. Mentally an 11-year-old Keidran is nothing like a human child of same age.
The age of consent is very very heavily reliant on life experience. Being a consenting individual relies not just on how developed a brain is, it's reliant on the individual being able to make an informed decision through understanding the position that they're in based on the information they have gathered throughout their life. Having a developed brain does not make a person inherently equally mature or well reasoned when their actual access to everything life has to offer is less than half of another person with the same brain maturity and twice the age. This is the source of ick.

Certainly age does not ALWAYS beget wisdom, but the exception does not make the rule.
I am by no means intending the following as a 'gotcha' or to stand as a refutation of your argument, but allow me to, out of curiosity, ask you how a theoretical situation fits into your stance:

Say a sentient and technological race exists which has a natural lifespan of 25 years max and a fertile window of 9-20 years old (i.e. early puberty to menopause equivalent). (for reference, humans' fertile window starts at age 12-14)
If they were a client species of Humans, would you expect them to adhere to Human age of consent standards among themselves? If not, would you regulate their half of a mixed-race couple up to human standards (obviously human-side would still have human standards)? If yes to the second question, why?

Second situation:
Flip the scenario. Humans are the comparatively short-lived client species of, say, an Asari-like or elf-like species. Same questions but this time about humans.
Warrl wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 9:22 pm
Dadrobit wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 8:57 pm The age of consent is very very heavily reliant on life experience. Being a consenting individual relies not just on how developed a brain is, it's reliant on the individual being able to make an informed decision through understanding the position that they're in based on the information they have gathered throughout their life. Having a developed brain does not make a person inherently equally mature or well reasoned when their actual access to everything life has to offer is less than half of another person with the same brain maturity and twice the age. This is the source of ick.

Certainly age does not ALWAYS beget wisdom, but the exception does not make the rule.
If the age of consent were based on brain development and the ability to understand and weigh consequences, it would probably be about 26.

And the human species would probably go extinct.
My understanding of the reasoning for the age of consent is that it is based on the brain being far enough along in development that there is enough decision-making capability and that there will be minimal effects on physical (incl brain) development of the body. If it were purely about consequences, IMO there would be two ages for with and without protection.
"Light thinks it travels faster than anything, but it's wrong. No matter how fast light travels, it always finds that darkness has gotten there first, and is waiting for it."

aitaituo
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Re: Comic for June the 20th, 2020

#47 Post by aitaituo »

Warrl wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 9:22 pmIf the age of consent were based on brain development and the ability to understand and weigh consequences, it would probably be about 26.

And the human species would probably go extinct.
I have often said that the only sensible age of majority is 25. Anything else lacks a scientific basis. As for the reason there is an age of consent, while there's a lot of theories going around, the simple fact is it really wasn't all that thought out. Traditionally it was the legal age of marriage and in America that varied by state, some were in the single digits. The Progressive Era activists didn't have a lot of trouble convincing people that was squicky and as sexual mores began to loosen (this is well before the Sexual Revolution, btw) it became obvious that an age of consent law was also necessary. Marriage and consent ages tend to be the same, but lower for marriage when the parents consent. Age of consent laws drifted up over the years and most in the western world are now 16. While a lot of people make high minded arguments now about why that's a good age, when that age was set, those arguments were largely absent. A more common argument was it kept teenage girls from having sex, getting pregnant, and then getting married young. But it's hard to ignore that 16 is when almost all girls have completed puberty and much of the arguments centered around when someone becomes a sexual/biological adult rather than a mere child.

Interestingly, adolescent male sexual activity is barely a footnote in the history of age of consent laws and customs, whereas it was given due weight in marriage age laws and customs. Almost universally, boys were not deemed capable of marriage until at least a couple years later than girls.

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Ddraig
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Re: Comic for June the 20th, 2020

#48 Post by Ddraig »

aitaituo wrote: Fri Jun 26, 2020 1:13 am[snip]
Interestingly, adolescent male sexual activity is barely a footnote in the history of age of consent laws and customs, whereas it was given due weight in marriage age laws and customs. Almost universally, boys were not deemed capable of marriage until at least a couple years later than girls.
Part (or the whole) of that, I think, is that at the time, males were generally expected to be the sole source of income and productivity for the marriage, and so had to have more time to prepare beforehand while females were expected to need to do little aside from be able to pop a kid out to satisfy marriage requirements. Obviously, this didn't happen to quite the universality that the culture expected, but the numbers were set based on expectation not reality.

Also, sexual activity is/was less physically dangerous for males (mother-childbirth mortality rates), so there wouldn't have been near the focus on that aspect for males. The danger for males is the financial risk which I already mentioned earlier in this post.
"Light thinks it travels faster than anything, but it's wrong. No matter how fast light travels, it always finds that darkness has gotten there first, and is waiting for it."

Yastreb
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Re: Comic for June the 20th, 2020

#49 Post by Yastreb »

Dadrobit wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 8:57 pm
Yastreb wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 3:18 pm
Dadrobit wrote: Sun Jun 21, 2020 11:41 am Aye, I personally am from the same camp. I don't care if it's "legal" (and yeah, that "joke" REALLY didn't age well) or not. I don't particularly care if the body is "mature" or not. The fact of the matter is that a person who is only 11 years old is someone who still only has 11 years of life experience. They are mentally still just an 11 year old. Regardless of how much their matured body might push them towards sex, it's still inevitably an icky scenario.
Age of consent is not just about life experience. Human brain is still developing when you are 11 and there are major changes that happen over the teenage years. Keidran brain presumably matures faster, reaching its adult state at ~9 instead of ~20. Mentally an 11-year-old Keidran is nothing like a human child of same age.
The age of consent is very very heavily reliant on life experience. Being a consenting individual relies not just on how developed a brain is, it's reliant on the individual being able to make an informed decision through understanding the position that they're in based on the information they have gathered throughout their life. Having a developed brain does not make a person inherently equally mature or well reasoned when their actual access to everything life has to offer is less than half of another person with the same brain maturity and twice the age. This is the source of ick.

Certainly age does not ALWAYS beget wisdom, but the exception does not make the rule.
Going by your logic, should age of consent then be higher for someone who has lived extremely uneventful life with nearly every day being like the ones before? They would have little life experience compared to most others of the same age.

Making informed desicions takes much more than just information from experiences, it requires sufficent mental capabilities for processing said information and understanding its connections and implications.

aitaituo
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Re: Comic for June the 20th, 2020

#50 Post by aitaituo »

Ddraig wrote: Fri Jun 26, 2020 8:20 amAlso, sexual activity is/was less physically dangerous for males (mother-childbirth mortality rates), so there wouldn't have been near the focus on that aspect for males. The danger for males is the financial risk which I already mentioned earlier in this post.
True. I think there was also some concern for young girls getting (pushed) into prostitution, which is of course a very dangerous profession.

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Hayate
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Re: Comic for June the 20th, 2020

#51 Post by Hayate »

Hey everyone! We might be derailing this comic thread quite a bit with this slightly off topic discussion. If it’s going to continue it will need it’s own thread made. Thanks!
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Foxx Trotter
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Re: Comic for June the 20th, 2020: The Painting

#52 Post by Foxx Trotter »

Image

While I'm not a mod on these forums, Hayate is right. Please keep the thread posts "on topic". Thankies. :)
Videre videnda.

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Bellhead
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Re: Comic for June the 20th, 2020

#53 Post by Bellhead »

New topic time! *claps hands together* Hmm..

This room was COVERED in dust when they got there. But it also has a full size painting of Rose, a bed and a crib. If we assume Trace meant to share it with Saria and the baby, we can also guess Rose knew about it. Now, was this one of the rooms she was forbidden from, did she choose to stay away, or was her memory of this whole pregnancy erased? We didn't actually see her reaction to Euchre's request, so we don't know if she knew what he meant.
Gearhead mechanic in the digital era, who will probably grow up is in the process of growing up to be a very grumpy old man.

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