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The Abandoned Nursery

Is that "I'm starting a flashback" face? That looks like "I'm starting a flashback" face.

Definitely a flashback. But now what? ;m; they're trapped in there with nothing to help them against that thing ;n; Can we get any relief for them here, Tom?

I'm terrified of Flora getting hurt...

But this, what does it imply? That Flora's baby *isn't* Trace's firstborn after all!? I hope that's not the case, it has more impact being the first child Trace ever has, in my opinion. Maybe he and Saria were making preparations before they tried getting pregnant?

Cpt. H.L. Rodney wrote: ↑Sun May 10, 2020 12:14 amBut this, what does it imply? That Flora's baby *isn't* Trace's firstborn after all!? I hope that's not the case, it has more impact being the first child Trace ever has, in my opinion. Maybe he and Saria were making preparations before they tried getting pregnant?

Others have speculated that Saria was pregnant when she died, so Trace lost both wife and child in one fell swoop.

A stillborn child is another obvious possibility.

Though god, it always seems weird that Trace is so young, given how much stuff he got up to.

Cpt. H.L. Rodney wrote: ↑Sun May 10, 2020 12:14 am But this, what does it imply? That Flora's baby *isn't* Trace's firstborn after all!? I hope that's not the case, it has more impact being the first child Trace ever has, in my opinion. Maybe he and Saria were making preparations before they tried getting pregnant?

There was speculation in the past that the reason Trace was so desperate to save Saria was that she was pregnant, and that the loss of both is what sent him right off the deep end.

Oh sweet baby Buddha in a manger, I don't like where this is going. Is this why we can't have nice things, Tom?

Welp, that settles it. Trace's reaction says he knew Saria either wanted a child or died with one, speculation confirmed. Good thing Flora's there, he's going to need some serious support in 3.. 2..

On another note, this is one hell of a bombshell. Neither Saria's ghost nor Nora's explanation gave any hint of a child... Possible this part of the story was added after, or that both of them knew better than to awaken the memories that drove him three steps past madness. But now Euchre's warning makes a LOT more sense, if we assume he knew about all this.

Trace's expression, though... It's not just grief. It's fear and worry, with a hint of hidden anger and a dose of utter shock. He needs somebody, whether he realizes or or not, so it's a good thing Flora's standing right beside him. But as good of an emotional anchor as she is for him, she might not be enough for him to hold on to, and that's saying something. This page actually scared me a little bit.

Bellhead wrote: ↑Sun May 10, 2020 1:02 am Welp, that settles it. Trace's reaction says he knew Saria either wanted a child or died with one, speculation confirmed. Good thing Flora's there, he's going to need some serious support in 3.. 2..

On another note, this is one hell of a bombshell. Neither Saria's ghost nor Nora's explanation gave any hint of a child... Possible this part of the story was added after, or that both of them knew better than to awaken the memories that drove him three steps past madness. But now Euchre's warning makes a LOT more sense, if we assume he knew about all this.

Trace's expression, though... It's not just grief. It's fear and worry, with a hint of hidden anger and a dose of utter shock. He needs somebody, whether he realizes or or not, so it's a good thing Flora's standing right beside him. But as good of an emotional anchor as she is for him, she might not be enough for him to hold on to, and that's saying something. This page actually scared me a little bit.

I would note that this is probably what old!Trace meant by "for the birthday" in Stoney's creation discussion, since they wouldn't have known if the kid was male or female yet. I'd guess that would also come much closer to confirming Saria was still around at that point because of the language used.

Bellhead wrote: ↑Sun May 10, 2020 1:02 am Welp, that settles it. Trace's reaction says he knew Saria either wanted a child or died with one, speculation confirmed. Good thing Flora's there, he's going to need some serious support in 3.. 2..

On another note, this is one hell of a bombshell. Neither Saria's ghost nor Nora's explanation gave any hint of a child... Possible this part of the story was added after, or that both of them knew better than to awaken the memories that drove him three steps past madness. But now Euchre's warning makes a LOT more sense, if we assume he knew about all this.

Trace's expression, though... It's not just grief. It's fear and worry, with a hint of hidden anger and a dose of utter shock. He needs somebody, whether he realizes or or not, so it's a good thing Flora's standing right beside him. But as good of an emotional anchor as she is for him, she might not be enough for him to hold on to, and that's saying something. This page actually scared me a little bit.

I am a bit surprised he went with the child idea here. That [expletive] is dark. But I do wonder about the details. Were they expecting a children or just trying to get pregnant? Did any of them knew Saria was with child before she died? After all she did not look pregnant at all in previos flashbacks, nor her ghost seemed aware of it
Also this puts a new perspective on what is in his necromancy chamber, since we know Sarias grave is somewhere else perhaps along her body, then whatever is on the room might be his unborn child. And I thought Tom pulling an Bloodborne's Arianna with Flora was the worse it could get.
Also if that is the case does he wanted Maren to carry his child to birth? That is horrible and disgusting. Well who knows maybe they did not get to the point of pregnancy and Trace just wanted to recreate Saria using Maren and then have a child with her wife doppelgänger. I mean that is still pretty horrible but slightly less worse maybe?

I do think this is a bit of a retcon for whatever else was planned in the first place. No idea what Tom was going before, but I am linking this twist from a Narrative standpoint, it is horrible but interesting.

Oh...oh no...

Technic[Bot] wrote: ↑Sun May 10, 2020 2:31 am Also if that is the case does he wanted Maren to carry his child to birth? That is horrible and disgusting.

Squick!

Bellhead wrote: ↑Sun May 10, 2020 1:02 am Welp, that settles it. Trace's reaction says he knew Saria either wanted a child or died with one, speculation confirmed. Good thing Flora's there, he's going to need some serious support in 3.. 2..

On another note, this is one hell of a bombshell. Neither Saria's ghost nor Nora's explanation gave any hint of a child... Possible this part of the story was added after, or that both of them knew better than to awaken the memories that drove him three steps past madness. But now Euchre's warning makes a LOT more sense, if we assume he knew about all this.

Trace's expression, though... It's not just grief. It's fear and worry, with a hint of hidden anger and a dose of utter shock. He needs somebody, whether he realizes or or not, so it's a good thing Flora's standing right beside him. But as good of an emotional anchor as she is for him, she might not be enough for him to hold on to, and that's saying something. This page actually scared me a little bit.

Needless to say, it's scaring me too I'm terrified of her not being enough, and hoping for the exact opposite, she just can't lose Trace to that [censored] that is his old self already ;n; Not after they just got engaged

Please, Flora, save him from the brink again... I can't handle otherwise

Don't know about you all but I find that video to be kinda relevant considering what we are learning today:

Bellhead wrote: ↑Sun May 10, 2020 1:02 am Trace's expression, though... It's not just grief. It's fear and worry, with a hint of hidden anger and a dose of utter shock. He needs somebody, whether he realizes or or not, so it's a good thing Flora's standing right beside him. But as good of an emotional anchor as she is for him, she might not be enough for him to hold on to, and that's saying something. This page actually scared me a little bit.

I think we can safely assume it's absolute horror. I mean, that old trauma turned old-Trace into a full on dark lord, genocidal and obsessed with the darkness magical stuff he could find. It made him abandon everything to commit entirely to the goal of resurrecting his little one, for which he jumped every slippery slope in existence without a though... And that was years after that. He had quite a lot of time to somewhat process it all (even if he never got over it). Here present-Trace has it all shoved back into his mind in a split second and no warning before hand.

If he just collapses on the ground and start vomiting, it will be a mild reaction, considering the horror of the whole situation (especially if you add to it that he forgot all the evil he did and is now a very nice guy who just discovered what kind of horrors he was planning for Maren).
I'm sure few people could handle that without going completely catatonic.

Bellhead wrote: ↑Sun May 10, 2020 1:02 am On another note, this is one hell of a bombshell. Neither Saria's ghost nor Nora's explanation gave any hint of a child... Possible this part of the story was added after, or that both of them knew better than to awaken the memories that drove him three steps past madness. But now Euchre's warning makes a LOT more sense, if we assume he knew about all this.

Indeed it must have been added later. Not a true retcon but some kind of "addition into the still available space".
Anyway it's not a bad thing. It's a very little twisting, and opens many possibilities in drama, character development... A little cost for a big boon.
Until now drama who happened to human characters had been quite neglected or considered as only plot moving stuff. Here it's clear it will go deeper.

And it can be somewhat justified in-story indeed. Nora didn't brought it up because Trace sent her packing every time (and she didn't want to ruin her chances with him... who are nonexistent already but whatever) and the ghost probably feared it would just hurt Trace to talk about it when she surely wanted to enjoy as much as she could what little time she had left with him.
And frankly it makes it all quite impactfull. In all stories dragons dispense the most terrible knowledge with certainty, and ghosts speak openly of their traumatic origins. But here, we have something so utterly sinister that both entities chose to keep quiet about it. Tells some about their sensibility... but probably more about the horror of the thing.

Technic[Bot] wrote: ↑Sun May 10, 2020 2:31 am I am a bit surprised he went with the child idea here. That [expletive] is dark. But I do wonder about the details. Were they expecting a children or just trying to get pregnant? Did any of them knew Saria was with child before she died? After all she did not look pregnant at all in previous flashbacks, nor her ghost seemed aware of it
Also this puts a new perspective on what is in his necromancy chamber, since we know Sarias grave is somewhere else perhaps along her body, then whatever is on the room might be his unborn child. And I thought Tom pulling an Bloodborne's Arianna with Flora was the worse it could get.
Also if that is the case does he wanted Maren to carry his child to birth? That is horrible and disgusting. Well who knows maybe they did not get to the point of pregnancy and Trace just wanted to recreate Saria using Maren and then have a child with her wife doppelgänger. I mean that is still pretty horrible but slightly less worse maybe?

I'm just as surprised as you. At the time I posted that little theory just to express what I though would look cool, and was sure Tom was going for something more "SFW"... Not that I'm complaining, but it's a shock to me too.
Especially because I never though after all this time spent posting all those half-though theories I'd actually succeed in predicting something that would be written by Tom. I must be wrong somewhat... probably...

I wondered years ago, when I had just started reading TK (barely understood english at the time, I had to use google translation to help me, page after page) and Old-Trace was portrayed as just another random evil and racist dark lord who turned evil for the classical "bwa-bwa you killed my [insert relative]", if his evilness may have been triggered not by hatred but by love. If it wasn't him being evil but in fact being "too good" for his and everyone's sake. If he may be motivated by an exacerbated desire to protect his kind, to neutralize a menace ("what happened to me shall never happen again") who ended up twisted and corrupted beyond corruption by the pain he had gone through.

It seems I wasn't so far from the truth. It just wasn't love for his people, but paternal love.
"Of far would you go for your child?" indeed.

Also I find the connection with Bloodborne to be more and more relevant as time goes on. :q

Ddraig wrote: ↑Sun May 10, 2020 1:14 am I would note that this is probably what old!Trace meant by "for the birthday" in Stoney's creation discussion, since they wouldn't have known if the kid was male or female yet. I'd guess that would also come much closer to confirming Saria was still around at that point because of the language used.

Anon: Hey Trace, I heard you were cobbling something for the little one yourself. What is it?

Trace: Oh nothing much. Just a two meter high, over powered, stone lizard golem infused with an autonomous mind and obedient temper to keep him/her safe at night, and shinning eyes to serve as night-lights. I even needed a little help with it.

Anon: .......Are you sure it will be actually safer?

BadJoke wrote: ↑Sun May 10, 2020 3:52 pm Anon: Hey Trace, I heard you were cobbling something for the little one yourself. What is it?

Trace: Oh nothing much. Just a two meter high, over powered, stone lizard golem infused with an autonomous mind and obedient temper to keep him/her safe at night, and shinning eyes to serve as night-lights. I even needed a little help with it.

Anon: .......Are you sure it will be actually safer?

I think he did not wanted the stone golem for his child. Nora simply decided to give it to him with the excuse of "the birthday"

Yeeaah, an abandoned crib is not a good sign. IDK what happened to the kid, but surely it can be nothing good.

Dear furball... Now thats one heck of a bombshell.

I never heard of the child rumor. Never ever thought of it as it would probably be hinted at. But reading thru seeing it was a theory on the forum... This is really deep.
Hopefully Flora can be the support he needs and he wont spiral down in to another episode of black magic.

I have no words....