Comic for April 12, 2020: Dragons and Stone

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aitaituo
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Re: Comic for April 12, 2020: Dragons and Stone

#16 Post by aitaituo »

"The birthday [party]."
Kyrit wrote: Sun Apr 12, 2020 10:30 pm
Cosmacelf wrote: Sun Apr 12, 2020 8:23 pm Yeah, they are different shades of blue. Not an accident I reckon.

So when old Trace was asking for a guardian to protect “her”, was he talking about Saria? Or Rose? Presumably Saria, or else Nora would have thought it strange, and old Trace was still sane. So he repurposed the guardian to guard his maniacal secret lab?
I don't think he repurposed it at all. As I see it, Nora means the literal "birthday" of Saria being brought back via Maren's body. Thus why she doesn't say "your" birthday or "her" birthday, even though Trace put emphasis on it being a gift for "her". Trace wanted the stone lizard to protect her; first the room where likely at least some part of her body rests while he was gathering the necessary parts and then physically her after she's "back". Thus the lizard attacking the girls for getting too close to the forbidden room.

I suppose maybe those thinking it's for a child's protection could be right, but I read this as being after Saria's death.
The exchange seems too lighthearted for after Saria died. Plus, I seem to recall that Nora was never quite on board with the resurrection plan, given that it's a well known fact that black magic causes severe side effects in its users, like becoming a genocidal de facto dictator.

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Re: Comic for April 12, 2020: Dragons and Stone

#17 Post by Cosmacelf »

Yeah the theory that the birthday refers to the resurrection (umm, Tom posted this on Easter, right?) of Saria seems to make Nora pretty nonchalant about killing an innocent person for the body. But then, maybe she didn’t know that part of the plan. Or maybe she doesn’t care ... she turns intruders into animals after all.

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Re: Comic for April 12, 2020: Dragons and Stone

#18 Post by tony1695 »

Rafe wrote: Sun Apr 12, 2020 10:12 pm
tony1695 wrote: Sun Apr 12, 2020 9:01 pm We don't quite know yet if magic is capable of being used as a pregnancy test, or an ultrasound, but it's certainly not impossible....
In case you didn't know (or forgot), there are ways of knowing if a woman is pregnant or not that don't involve modern tests or magic.
And I'm also aware there are ways to determine whether the unborn child is a boy or a girl. But for a setting where magic is supposedly ubiquitous, it strikes me that both things would have magical methods.
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Re: Comic for April 12, 2020: Dragons and Stone

#19 Post by Bellhead »

JonahAndTheWolf wrote: Sun Apr 12, 2020 11:53 pm snip

In any case, every successive page has only been fueling my theories that we're gonna see a Trace breakdown within this chapter. It's been too long, and with his pregnant fiancee on the front lines, there's plenty that could happen :wink: I am interested to see how this new memory thing plays into it all -- as far as I can recall, this is the most peacefully he's ever had a memory come back, so maybe whatever the masks did to him is wearing off? So the boundary between current Trace and past Trace might become dangerously thin...God, I wish the whole chapter was out now!
There's definitely going to be a breakdown. Based on the chapter cover alone, not even counting the numerous clues up to that point. As for what could happen, there are far too many negative possibilities to list. So I ain't even gonna try.

As for memories returning, I'll throw in the incident on the islands, when he remembered the meeting about war planning. He barely flinched there. This seemed like more of a flash, but I do agree: these are coming easier to him. Now, whether that's from comfort, location, lost memory recovery or what, I have no idea.

And since a lot of people have brought this up, I'll weigh in: "the birthday".
I personally think Saria may have been with child. Far fetched and solely based on literally one word, but it would better explain his later actions and descent into madness Then again, Nora very much has a twisted sense of humor. Trace may well have convinced her that he had a way to reincarnate Saria without black magic, something I bet she could be convinced to go along with. In which case, it would refer not to birth, but rebirth. Heck, maybe she just refused to use the standard possessive pronoun because Nora.

So it really could be either at this point.
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Re: Comic for April 12, 2020: Dragons and Stone

#20 Post by BadJoke »

I must say that I like the direction Tom took with Nora's characterization. Without changing her core character (carefree, affable, fun attitude...) he's showing her as more and more inhuman, closer to an eldritch abomination on the same level as the Masks. When that flashback happened Trace was obviously building his crazy stuff with Saria's corpse. Considering how close they were it's impossible Nora didn't know what he was doing at the time, and whatever he was planning at that moment (the future coup, trying to resurrect Saria, studying more black magic stuff, getting into necromancy, planning to sacrifice an innocent Maren, the simple fact he had to be pretty bad with Rose...) you'd have to be pretty messed up yourself to let that happen, especially by a close relative you know to be desperate and messed up while you have all you need to have him stop; and even help with furnishing living weaponry that attack to kill on sight, with "don't tarnish my species' image" for only objection. And all in exchange for a little teasing.
And considering how she mentions "the birthday" she obviously knew a lot, or even all of it.
Bonus point for her having known the old High Templar and left Trace mount a coup against her. "Yeah I've known you for quite some time, you're a decent person and quite like you, but the guy I lust after want your job and doom you and your little girl to a life of slavery, so too bad." (Double bonus for remembering what a young, pretty girl (and mentally fragile with that) would probably suffer under slavery).

Add to that the "oh so funny" [/sarcasm] magic trap that condemn people to a "I have no mouth and I must scream" fate in the body of animals (and maybe end up as food stock) and you get a pretty grim portrait.
You can bet that, had she been on the villains' side, without any change to her personality at all, she'd be one of the most hated character of the comic.

It's a nice change of pace from Tom writing style. While dark themes are approached with talent and head on, he always had that tendency to sugarcoat his main characters a bit too much, when it's obvious they'd have to be not so innocent after growing in such a hostile world.
Eric's tendencies and the collars the females he asked had to wear... Never brought up and quickly forgotten.
Trace... never did he had to fight back, to kill or not. Every time someone else did (even his evil side had to intervene to save the group!).
Zen and Natani: the worst of the lot, they appear as very anti-human killers for hire and then we're told they actually never killed anyone directly. All dumb luck... Yyyeeeaaah, because judging how Zen nearly killed all group B, handling it all in cold-blood and only being destabilized (leading to his later defeat) thanks to Raine's abilities, is really the sign of a guy who has never killed anyone or isn't up the task...


And I really like the idea that Saria had been pregnant when she was killed. That would add a lot of meaning and possibilities to his past actions and open so much more for the future.

- That would explain why he tried to use dark magic to resurrect her. Even if she was dead for some time when he came back to her there was probably still a little hope for the fetus to still be alive or at least not completely gone at the time.

- And why did that loss drove him to madness? Because he didn't just loose his wife but also his child. He lost his whole future here, and being pretty asocial in his younger years chances are he probably though (with some pertinence) that he would REALLY never have another chance to get close to someone to build a life together.

- The birthday Nora mentions may be the date the child would have been born. A date he kept celebrating in an unhealthy way to remember it.

- The ritual and his need for a woman with a body close to Saria's own may not be to resurrect his wife but to find a new carrier for the unborn child. Which is still just as creepy, and may even worse, because he was planning to forcefully impregnate a woman (rape, anyone?) with a DEAD/ZOMBIE EMBRYO!!!

- All of this may give Trace a gate towards overcoming this terrible trauma by bringing peace to his evil side (who's, with time, looking more and more horribly traumatized than evil at core). Because it happened! He has manage to meet someone else, and he has a future waiting for him once again! He has now the opportunity to let go of the past, to hope again! Wouldn't that be wholesome?


PS: Now I think about it, didn't Saria's ghost, back at the start of the comic, return to a simple grave in the woods? I don't really remember... but that would be one hell of a retcon.
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Re: Comic for April 12, 2020: Dragons and Stone

#21 Post by Insomniac »

I just think Stoneward is cute as a button...and can already see the fanart :D
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Re: Comic for April 12, 2020: Dragons and Stone

#22 Post by mullac »

I'm loving the complete 180° change in the character of Stoney from vicious guard dog to guilty puppy. Its a nice little side track from the doom that's about to befall the lot of them. With an added side of Nora making an appearance for a few pannels!
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Re: Comic for April 12, 2020: Dragons and Stone

#23 Post by AmigaDragon »

BadFoMo wrote: Sun Apr 12, 2020 8:01 pm Wait, back up a minute, memory of Old Trace; you made a few yourself? …Are they still around?

Anyway, is it just me, or are Old and New Trace’s hair different shades of blue?
Nora suggested he make more himself but I see nothing indicating that he actually did it (beyond his previous failed attempts).

The lighting is cooler in the former scene and warmer in the latter. This can account for a perceived difference in hair color. That said, it could change color a bit with time too, magic or hair care products too.
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Re: Comic for April 12, 2020: Dragons and Stone

#24 Post by Technic[Bot] »

We have always known Trace and Nora were close. But pages like these make me wonder: Just how close were they?
Stuff like this is what keep the theory of Nibs being Nora's and Trace child alive you know?

My two cents tegarding The birthday:
Guys I think we are simply reading too much into it. Most likely she was talking about Trace's or Saria's birthday. Byt simple Occam Razor* the weird inflection is just there to make Nora sound dismissive as usual: "... For the birthday. I forgot last week..."
On the other hand as other points out this little exchange is too lighthearted to be after Saria's Death. Sounds more like two old fiends teasing each other about that book he never returned rather than two guys hiring a hitman to protect their drug stash. Perhaps not the best analogy
Besides if it turned out Trace had a child with Saria even if he did not conspired with Nora would be a harsh turn into the comics tone. Yes some people have pointed out that the comic world building is sometimes way darker than the comic tone. Most of the time the story seems like a fantasy-adventure romantic comedy. But there are people breeding sex slaves. On top of that is seems that the market is large enough that is a feasible way to run business......
But still fetal necromancy would be a bit too much for the comic specially if it happens front and center and not on the subtext not to mention it might raise the comic rating from Teen.

Anyhow regarding Nora her character has always rubbed me in the wrong way. Tom has always tried to portray her ad a mischievous trickster. Sure she might turn you into a girl or animal but she will hopefully eventually turn you back and other than that and some practical jokes she won't actually hurt anyone. Right?
But she also strikes me as the someone who likes to play with other peoples heart and lives, simply because she finds it mildly entertaining. And someone who considers her "victims" way below her. You know like the woman who makes the two most drunken men in a bar fight for her simply cause she finds it funny.

Alas she might not be as bad as i think she is. After all she not only supported Trace with Saria, she actively helped him despite her feelings for him. And seems she really cares about Trace, not only as a her boy-toy but as her friend. Also by her own admission, only in side sketches though, she could make him love her. But that is not she does things . Besides i think she understands she just wants Trace to get some action with someone way younger than her. After all she 2000 years old, you know get the blood pumping. And Trace will probably be better with someone who actually loves him.

*Hate the term

Also Stoneward... Is that a Spongebob reference? (I hope not)
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Re: Comic for April 12, 2020: Dragons and Stone

#25 Post by Stunner »

Nora is still my favourite character. Flora is up there for sure, a close second, but our dragon girl is an awesomely made character. :heart:

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Re: Comic for April 12, 2020: Dragons and Stone

#26 Post by aitaituo »

Technic[Bot] wrote: Tue Apr 14, 2020 2:05 am Also Stoneward... Is that a Spongebob reference? (I hope not)
I think it's meant to be a play on stone and ward.

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Re: Comic for April 12, 2020: Dragons and Stone

#27 Post by AndreRhineDavis »

BadJoke wrote: Mon Apr 13, 2020 12:47 pm I must say that I like the direction Tom took with Nora's characterization. Without changing her core character (carefree, affable, fun attitude...) he's showing her as more and more inhuman, closer to an eldritch abomination on the same level as the Masks.
Technic[Bot] wrote: Tue Apr 14, 2020 2:05 am Anyhow regarding Nora her character has always rubbed me in the wrong way.
Just want to mention / remind you guys that from the very first time we met Nora, she seemed totally ok with the idea of eating Keidran and Basitin. This has always given me the vibe that she doesn't care about or respect sentient life, at least non-human sentient life. She has always seemed to me to be a very amoral character; she just does whatever she feels like, with no moral concerns whatsoever.

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Re: Comic for April 12, 2020: Dragons and Stone

#28 Post by JonahAndTheWolf »

AndreRhineDavis wrote: Tue Apr 14, 2020 3:40 pm
BadJoke wrote: Mon Apr 13, 2020 12:47 pm I must say that I like the direction Tom took with Nora's characterization. Without changing her core character (carefree, affable, fun attitude...) he's showing her as more and more inhuman, closer to an eldritch abomination on the same level as the Masks.
Technic[Bot] wrote: Tue Apr 14, 2020 2:05 am Anyhow regarding Nora her character has always rubbed me in the wrong way.
Just want to mention / remind you guys that from the very first time we met Nora, she seemed totally ok with the idea of eating Keidran and Basitin. This has always given me the vibe that she doesn't care about or respect sentient life, at least non-human sentient life. She has always seemed to me to be a very amoral character; she just does whatever she feels like, with no moral concerns whatsoever.
I dunno, I always read that panel as a joke.

Honestly, I think this thread kind of speaks to one of the biggest problems when it comes to characterizing Nora: namely, that she's really, really lackadaisical, so it's also really, really hard to tell when she's serious. Plus, how little we see her combined with how powerful she is means we only ever really see the consequences of her actions without seeing the motivations behind them, so whether she's a mischievous trickster or a carefree-to-a-fault sociopath depends entirely on what motivations you read into those consequences...hopefully we'll get to see more of her later so we can come to understand her better :P
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Re: Comic for April 12, 2020: Dragons and Stone

#29 Post by Cpt. H.L. Rodney »

To tell the truth, I'm actually glad we're on the right track with flashbacks, I look forward to learning a lot more about old Trace through them! ... Though I do wonder, Trace gradually remembering these things, memories bubbling back to the surface (like with Revan in Star Wars): is this *one* way Trace can learn more about his past self, to prepare himself to fight him off, protect his new family? Or is it the *only* way...? o.o; More on the present page, I like how old Trace here acts like he's still a child talking to Nora like "can you help me make guardians for my wife? Pleeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaase?" And she's like "Ohh, fiiine, but just the one!" At least Trace didn't get greedy in this case like most anyone much younger than him would, if you know what I mean. xD Present time here, I like the name, Stoneward. Simple, yet robust, and fitting! And I just knew "Stoney" sounded better for some reason xD Now... Let's hope whatever's in this side room proves useful in either helping Trace stop this, getting his loved ones to safety, or at least helping him understand what's going on (or heck, we could learn more about Rose's connection to the estate too. That is, if she doesn't pop up first and save them from getting too close to the bad room. They are still trapped in that corridor after all) At least Stoney's watching their backs like a good boy!

On a side note, if those two get a moment, it'd probably be a good idea for them to check if the baby's okay. If I was an expecting father like Trace, I'd be a bit of a worry wart in situations like these! :trace: Especially since Flora's been getting pretty tossed around in the past three days like a pea in a frying pan

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Re: Comic for April 12, 2020: Dragons and Stone

#30 Post by Panther »

mullac wrote: Mon Apr 13, 2020 10:28 pm I'm loving the complete 180° change in the character of Stoney from vicious guard dog to guilty puppy. Its a nice little side track from the doom that's about to befall the lot of them. With an added side of Nora making an appearance for a few pannels!
Panther wrote: Sun Apr 12, 2020 8:18 pm That's it : when created the guardian , Nora has (unconsciously or not) putted her "love" to Trace in it with some of her mind :nora:
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