Comic for March 28, 2020: Stone Lick

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Cpt. H.L. Rodney
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Re: Comic for March 28, 2020: Stone Lick

#46 Post by Cpt. H.L. Rodney »

JonahAndTheWolf wrote: Tue Apr 07, 2020 7:08 pm
On the topic of magic doing bad things, I hope the baby doesn't end up getting hurt -- correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Flora's been simultaneously pregnant and in a potentially dangerous situation since the center of the plot. I doubt anything like that's gonna happen, given that Tom seems to be setting up for some reveal or other about the baby, but I've been wrong in the past.
Not since the Basidian Isles arc, when Albion tried to kill her, and a few other times in that arc she was in imminent/potential danger. But ngl, I agree, I don't want to see Flora or the baby getting hurt either ;;

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Re: Comic for March 28, 2020: Stone Lick

#47 Post by JonahAndTheWolf »

Cpt. H.L. Rodney wrote: Tue Apr 07, 2020 9:16 pm
JonahAndTheWolf wrote: Tue Apr 07, 2020 7:08 pm
On the topic of magic doing bad things, I hope the baby doesn't end up getting hurt -- correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Flora's been simultaneously pregnant and in a potentially dangerous situation since the center of the plot. I doubt anything like that's gonna happen, given that Tom seems to be setting up for some reveal or other about the baby, but I've been wrong in the past.
Not since the Basidian Isles arc, when Albion tried to kill her, and a few other times in that arc she was in imminent/potential danger. But ngl, I agree, I don't want to see Flora or the baby getting hurt either ;;
Just realized my typo -- that was supposed to say "since the Basitin Isles arc", not "since the center of the plot"! But yeah, really hoping Tom doesn't do anything to Flora or the baby, not in the least because Trace hasn't properly lost control over his powers in a while o_o;
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Re: Comic for March 28, 2020: Stone Lick

#48 Post by Cpt. H.L. Rodney »

JonahAndTheWolf wrote: Tue Apr 07, 2020 9:24 pm
Cpt. H.L. Rodney wrote: Tue Apr 07, 2020 9:16 pm
JonahAndTheWolf wrote: Tue Apr 07, 2020 7:08 pm
On the topic of magic doing bad things, I hope the baby doesn't end up getting hurt -- correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Flora's been simultaneously pregnant and in a potentially dangerous situation since the center of the plot. I doubt anything like that's gonna happen, given that Tom seems to be setting up for some reveal or other about the baby, but I've been wrong in the past.
Not since the Basidian Isles arc, when Albion tried to kill her, and a few other times in that arc she was in imminent/potential danger. But ngl, I agree, I don't want to see Flora or the baby getting hurt either ;;
Just realized my typo -- that was supposed to say "since the Basitin Isles arc", not "since the center of the plot"! But yeah, really hoping Tom doesn't do anything to Flora or the baby, not in the least because Trace hasn't properly lost control over his powers in a while o_o;
I could not agree more e_e; protecting his future wife and unborn child will certainly be a damn good motivator for Trace to beat his old self down real good.

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Re: Comic for March 28, 2020: Stone Lick

#49 Post by Bellhead »

Cpt. H.L. Rodney wrote: Wed Apr 08, 2020 5:11 am I could not agree more e_e; protecting his future wife and unborn child will certainly be a damn good motivator for Trace to beat his old self down real good.
That's... not necessarily the case. Remember when he went berserk at the tower? Granted, he was against it, but every fiber of his being went toward protecting Flora and the others. I think it's safe to say that, whichever form he ends up in when things go down, his top priority will be her safety.

He'd still hate keidran in that form, of course, but in that mindset, Flora isn't "keidran". She's "lover" and "mother of my child", just as Keith is "trusted friend". I'd assume, based on what I've seen of Dark Trace thus far, that he hates the race but any individual he knows is separate from that, at least a little.

He's not above killing indescriminently, mind you, just against killing his friends. I feel that's important here, because aside from Nora and Saria, Dark Trace never really had family like this before, so naturally he'd do everything and then some to keep from losing it like he lost Her.
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Re: Comic for March 28, 2020: Stone Lick

#50 Post by Cpt. H.L. Rodney »

Bellhead wrote: Wed Apr 08, 2020 2:34 pm
Cpt. H.L. Rodney wrote: Wed Apr 08, 2020 5:11 am I could not agree more e_e; protecting his future wife and unborn child will certainly be a damn good motivator for Trace to beat his old self down real good.
That's... not necessarily the case. Remember when he went berserk at the tower? Granted, he was against it, but every fiber of his being went toward protecting Flora and the others. I think it's safe to say that, whichever form he ends up in when things go down, his top priority will be her safety.

He'd still hate keidran in that form, of course, but in that mindset, Flora isn't "keidran". She's "lover" and "mother of my child", just as Keith is "trusted friend". I'd assume, based on what I've seen of Dark Trace thus far, that he hates the race but any individual he knows is separate from that, at least a little.

He's not above killing indescriminently, mind you, just against killing his friends. I feel that's important here, because aside from Nora and Saria, Dark Trace never really had family like this before, so naturally he'd do everything and then some to keep from losing it like he lost Her.
Well he wasn't really old Trace in that moment, he was just berserk, but still barely himself. Barely. He'd still give his life for her either way. And remember in chapter 16, that old Trace tried to turn him against her? Yeah, he and that personality are plenty conflicted, though Trace has shown to have much more control than Him. Still, old Trace is still struggling to take over, but I agree, Trace, black-mana-berserk or not, will be prioritizing protecting his family first and foremost, something his old self never had. Old Trace though... like I said, needs to have his rear handed to him for even thinking to try anything.

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Re: Comic for March 28, 2020: Stone Lick

#51 Post by Bellhead »

Cpt. H.L. Rodney wrote: Wed Apr 08, 2020 7:03 pm Well he wasn't really old Trace in that moment, he was just berserk, but still barely himself. Barely. He'd still give his life for her either way. And remember in chapter 16, that old Trace tried to turn him against her? Yeah, he and that personality are plenty conflicted, though Trace has shown to have much more control than Him.
While I partially agree here, I must add in that I don't think that was his old self. In my mind, more likely it was the hallucination caused by black mana, something even Old Trace had to deal with. See Trace's journal entry from days of old.
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Re: Comic for March 28, 2020: Stone Lick

#52 Post by Technic[Bot] »

Bellhead wrote: Wed Apr 08, 2020 9:12 pm
Cpt. H.L. Rodney wrote: Wed Apr 08, 2020 7:03 pm Well he wasn't really old Trace in that moment, he was just berserk, but still barely himself. Barely. He'd still give his life for her either way. And remember in chapter 16, that old Trace tried to turn him against her? Yeah, he and that personality are plenty conflicted, though Trace has shown to have much more control than Him.
While I partially agree here, I must add in that I don't think that was his old self. In my mind, more likely it was the hallucination caused by black mana, something even Old Trace had to deal with. See Trace's journal entry from days of old.
I have to agree with Mr. Cpt. H.L. That was not Dark Tacea, just an angry beserk and unhinged magician fueled by Dark magic. He barely understood what he was doing and I am not sure he actually remembers much of it or with too much clarity. If anyone endangers Flora Trace becomes a bomb, dangerous to everything around him but rather uncontrolled. However if he regresses into his Dark self. That is not a bomb that is a smart nuclear warhead. Someone with a mission and who will stop at nothing to accomplish it and with a lot of power to back up his claims. He has no qualms to killing childhood friends, Maren, to achieve his goals, in this case necromancy. So I doubt he would hesitate to kill Flora and his child. Far from it i think Dark Trace would rather make that little slip of his to get dissapear from the face of the earth. Fortunately he probably wont believe the child is his and I say fortunately because else he may find some use for a hybrid. Then there is my theory that Dark Trace planned a "Total recall" and everything is still according to plan.
I think current Trace will actively try to fight his former self to prevent it from hurting Flora. And i think would be and interesting point of character development. He will have to face an accept what he did and what he was, not as some nebulous concept but as the reality standing in front (inside?) him or he may loose everything, and hopefully own his mistakes and try to fix some of the damage he did instead of just running away. I think he will eventually will have to reconcile not only with his past but with his pain too. Which was the problem to begin with, he could not accept his wife death and believed himself smart enough to cheat death.
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Re: Comic for March 28, 2020: Stone Lick

#53 Post by Bellhead »

Technic[Bot] wrote: Thu Apr 09, 2020 2:48 am I have to agree with Mr. Cpt. H.L. That was not Dark Tacea, just an angry beserk and unhinged magician fueled by Dark magic. He barely understood what he was doing and I am not sure he actually remembers much of it or with too much clarity. If anyone endangers Flora Trace becomes a bomb, dangerous to everything around him but rather uncontrolled. However if he regresses into his Dark self. That is not a bomb that is a smart nuclear warhead. Someone with a mission and who will stop at nothing to accomplish it and with a lot of power to back up his claims. He has no qualms to killing childhood friends, Maren, to achieve his goals, in this case necromancy. So I doubt he would hesitate to kill Flora and his child. Far from it i think Dark Trace would rather make that little slip of his to get dissapear from the face of the earth. Fortunately he probably wont believe the child is his and I say fortunately because else he may find some use for a hybrid. Then there is my theory that Dark Trace planned a "Total recall" and everything is still according to plan.
Seems to me that you consider New and Old Trace as two completely separate people, in body, mind, spirit and soul, when that's not really the case. Black magic making you lose control, and memories of it, that makes sense, though. Now for my piece by piece rebuttal:

Let's look at Dark Trace's life story. Born to farmers, left for the Templar at a young age. Not much family interaction before then. Poor people skills, kept to himself, longed for action. Meets Saria, falls head-over-heels, gets married. Wife means the world to him. Gets killed. Goes on a rampage against his mental image of her killer, then a crusade to bring her back.

Now we get to relevant stuff.
Meets Maren in his travels, sees resemblance, sees some plan we don't know. Decides to seduce her for the purpose of bringing her to the Estate. Gets memories sealed by Neutral.

By this point, it's safe to say that his soul, or whatever was left of it, was cold and dark, both by his loss and dark magic. No true feelings remain. ENTER FLORA. Now he has somebody to care deeply for, and no reason not to. He dedicated his naive memory-less self to her, wholeheartedly.

That's where things change.
He's no longer a remorseless killer hellbent on resurrecting his dead wife, because whatever his previous mentality felt for Saria pales in comparison to what he now feels for Flora. Sort of like an anchor in some ways, a part of him in others. She completes him now, and he's happy. Not simulated or temporary, but truly honestly genuinely happy, which is something his former self never had. With that in mind, his former self still wants control, but the desire for happiness, specifically that which is with Flora, is far better than the joy of killing for revenge.

That's my point here. It's no longer a question of if he would KILL her, but a question of how many he would kill to PROTECT her. As someone who's lost family and went through depression, I get that. Not unlike imprinting, in a way. Being left without anything for so long, then being given even a taste of true happiness... You'd do ANYTHING to keep it, no matter WHAT you had before.


Just realized how long this was. Sorry to anyone who read all of that...
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Re: Comic for March 28, 2020: Stone Lick

#54 Post by aitaituo »

Technic[Bot] wrote: Thu Apr 09, 2020 2:48 amIf anyone endangers Flora Trace becomes a bomb, dangerous to everything around him but rather uncontrolled. However if he regresses into his Dark self. That is not a bomb that is a smart nuclear warhead.
Trace is a nuclear bomb and evil!Trace is like Skynet. One can ruin your town, the other can, and will, ruin your planet.

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Re: Comic for March 28, 2020: Stone Lick

#55 Post by Technic[Bot] »

Bellhead wrote: Thu Apr 09, 2020 3:59 am
Technic[Bot] wrote: Thu Apr 09, 2020 2:48 am I have to agree with Mr. Cpt. H.L. That was not Dark Tacea, just an angry beserk and unhinged magician fueled by Dark magic. He barely understood what he was doing and I am not sure he actually remembers much of it or with too much clarity. If anyone endangers Flora Trace becomes a bomb, dangerous to everything around him but rather uncontrolled. However if he regresses into his Dark self. That is not a bomb that is a smart nuclear warhead. Someone with a mission and who will stop at nothing to accomplish it and with a lot of power to back up his claims. He has no qualms to killing childhood friends, Maren, to achieve his goals, in this case necromancy. So I doubt he would hesitate to kill Flora and his child. Far from it i think Dark Trace would rather make that little slip of his to get dissapear from the face of the earth. Fortunately he probably wont believe the child is his and I say fortunately because else he may find some use for a hybrid. Then there is my theory that Dark Trace planned a "Total recall" and everything is still according to plan.
Seems to me that you consider New and Old Trace as two completely separate people, in body, mind, spirit and soul, when that's not really the case. Black magic making you lose control, and memories of it, that makes sense, though. Now for my piece by piece rebuttal:

Let's look at Dark Trace's life story. Born to farmers, left for the Templar at a young age. Not much family interaction before then. Poor people skills, kept to himself, longed for action. Meets Saria, falls head-over-heels, gets married. Wife means the world to him. Gets killed. Goes on a rampage against his mental image of her killer, then a crusade to bring her back.

Now we get to relevant stuff.
Meets Maren in his travels, sees resemblance, sees some plan we don't know. Decides to seduce her for the purpose of bringing her to the Estate. Gets memories sealed by Neutral.

By this point, it's safe to say that his soul, or whatever was left of it, was cold and dark, both by his loss and dark magic. No true feelings remain. ENTER FLORA. Now he has somebody to care deeply for, and no reason not to. He dedicated his naive memory-less self to her, wholeheartedly.

That's where things change.
He's no longer a remorseless killer hellbent on resurrecting his dead wife, because whatever his previous mentality felt for Saria pales in comparison to what he now feels for Flora. Sort of like an anchor in some ways, a part of him in others. She completes him now, and he's happy. Not simulated or temporary, but truly honestly genuinely happy, which is something his former self never had. With that in mind, his former self still wants control, but the desire for happiness, specifically that which is with Flora, is far better than the joy of killing for revenge.

That's my point here. It's no longer a question of if he would KILL her, but a question of how many he would kill to PROTECT her. As someone who's lost family and went through depression, I get that. Not unlike imprinting, in a way. Being left without anything for so long, then being given even a taste of true happiness... You'd do ANYTHING to keep it, no matter WHAT you had before.


Just realized how long this was. Sorry to anyone who read all of that...
I do not consider them separate identities far from it. But i do consider there are 3 "versions" of Trace: Original Trace a person like you described. His major defect was probably believing himself a better mage than everyone else. Then there is Dark Trace, he is a broken mad, driven crazy by despair, probably with some neurological damage thanks to all that necromancy. He is basically a extreme version of his old self: He believes he can cheat death itself. Which takes us to his plan with Maren. And then there is current Trace a naive man shoved into a conflict that he has little understanding of despite being a huge part in its inception.
I think that our current version is the purest form of Trace we have. Removed from his biases and delusions of grandeour, his past and his pain. But not a blank slate he is still the same Trace he always was but without the added baggage he picked up in his rather short life, he is not even 25 and already a widow. These three "stages" are the same person just in different situations.
Now to regress he only needs his memories back, his pain, his hatred. And that is when his reckoning will be: Is his hatred for Keidran greater than the love he feels for his new wife? Will he be able to let his pain go, to accept he is a widow and move on with his new family? Is his love stronger than all the dark magic in his head?
Considering the tone of the comic i think the answer will be yes but I would be lying if i were to said i am not interested in seeing how it all plays out.
aitaituo wrote: Fri Apr 10, 2020 12:31 am
Technic[Bot] wrote: Thu Apr 09, 2020 2:48 amIf anyone endangers Flora Trace becomes a bomb, dangerous to everything around him but rather uncontrolled. However if he regresses into his Dark self. That is not a bomb that is a smart nuclear warhead.
Trace is a nuclear bomb and evil!Trace is like Skynet. One can ruin your town, the other can, and will, ruin your planet.
I liked my analogy but i like your much more!
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Re: Comic for March 28, 2020: Stone Lick

#56 Post by Bellhead »

Technic[Bot] wrote: Fri Apr 10, 2020 9:27 pmsnip

And that is when his reckoning will be: Is his hatred for Keidran greater than the love he feels for his new wife? Will he be able to let his pain go, to accept he is a widow and move on with his new family? Is his love stronger than all the dark magic in his head?

snip
I agree that this will be the end-all be-all of his character at some point, likely resulting in the total destruction of one facet or another and setting him permanently on one path.

That said, I think the battle is less Trace's issue, as it is a battle of differences. What I mean by that is, it's more:
Is CURRENT Trace's love for his future wife and child stronger that PAST Trace's hatred of keidran and/or inacceptance of loss? In that sense, their personalities are drastically different, but may end up competing.

That's my theory, though as to the circumstance... I'm kinda worried about what might bring this about.
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