Comic for February 15th, 2020: Formal Proposal

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AlphonseVaher
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Re: Comic for February 15th, 2020: Formal Proposal

#16 Post by AlphonseVaher »

My prediction for what is causing the rumble:

Rose is having a Squee.

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Re: Comic for February 15th, 2020: Formal Proposal

#17 Post by CrRAR »

steelabjur wrote: Sun Feb 16, 2020 3:55 am
CrRAR wrote: Sun Feb 16, 2020 3:33 am
Bellhead wrote: Sun Feb 16, 2020 2:53 am
Hulk10 wrote: Sun Feb 16, 2020 2:41 am This cute marriage proposal makes me think of the time Flora gave Trace the kitten eyes to convince him to help her help Euchre.
But yeah. Red's reaction was expected, Reni's was not. Her shock definitely took me by surprise. Either way, I'm glad they got through that, before the [censored] hit the fan. They deserved at least that much, after all the crap they went through up to this point.
Technic[Bot] wrote: Sun Feb 16, 2020 1:13 am Anyhow I did not expected Reni to be the one to object in this case, she might be a dragon but i do not think she was raised as such...
Reni wrote: I… I’m not sure how to react. A part of me wishes non-humans could be more open with humans… (Not me! I - I mean others…)
But with the war, marrying a Keidran…
So by extension part of her would rather the races to stop coexisting/fraternize with others, or was that just a form of speech or what she is exactly talking about? I mean sure ignoring that neighbor you hate is definitely better that breaking into his house and beating him up but is hardly a real solution to the problem.
Also what does she exactly mean with "more open"? From context I imagine she is talking about interracial relationships but i cannot imagine a more vague way of saying that.
Although she has a valid point, marriage is a not something you really wanna do in times of war, i tis a logistical hassle and that is something they definitely do not have time for right now, even if the state were not about to be breached. but those two would have gotten married even if martians had invaded mekkan.
It is good we are finally moving forward thought with all the light hardheartedness of the past pages it is easy to forget the comic does some quite direct racial allegories and social commentary which it usually wear in its sleeve. That is one of the things i like the most about it. It is not just kitty people has something to say.
I think the point that Tom is trying to drive home is that even being among close friends the idea of them marrying is still that unorthodox. In that they are upending the very fabric of society by even suggesting it, not even withstanding Trace being the former Grand Templar. That much even has been mentioned before. It’s a social mind-[censored] (excuse my french). :P

Reni’s dialog imo is a bit colored by her own bashfulness I think on the the topic of human/nonhuman relations. There haven’t been many sensitive topics that haven’t triggered a strong blush and some flustered wing flaps on her part.

At least that’s my take on it. It’s the teensy tip of the iceberg to the social deluge it’s bound to cause. Not to mention backlash and/or outright hostility. In the midst of an ongoing war, might not make that much difference, but adds another front to an already deteriorating situation... and also a fairly elegant solution. What’s important is that they are among friends, quite a few of which are on the same trajectory relationship-wise. They are the best brothers-in-arms any each of them could ask for.

“Your mission, should you choose to accept it, won’t be easy or straightforward or always fair. But! It will be promise of brighter tomorrow, and forever.

Vive la revolución
Yeah, I think Red's playing the "everyman" here, how your average human Mekkan bloke would react to one of their friends stating that they want to marry a Keidran.

I think even he'll eventually get over his prejudice as he realizes that the Wolf aspect of Raine is as much a part of her as her arm and in order to truly love her, he needs to love all of her, including her fluffy side.
Precisely. His blatent vector for change is indeed Raine.

“I have a person... sometimes inside a fuzzy person... but THEY’RE THE SAME PERSON! ...and it doen’t make her any less of a person.” :shock:
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Re: Comic for February 15th, 2020: Formal Proposal

#18 Post by Esn »

Technic[Bot] wrote: Sun Feb 16, 2020 1:13 amPersonally I think the comic will either end on their wedding ceremony, or in Trace funeral. That is my prediction, from your humble mexican oracle.
No way, the wedding ceremony will not by itself resolve the conflicts in the story, and also that would mean we wouldn't get to see their child. It will probably only be the halfway point (or a bit past).

My prediction for the ending (and I won't make any predictions about how things get there, because Tom is good at surprises) is that it ends with a relatively happy ending and will show Trace living to see his children and enjoy some family life. It may show Flora's death, though (consider that the average Keidran lifespan is much shorter). I actually think the very last panel is likely to show, some suitable number of years after Flora's death, with their child(ren?) grown and with the world in a relatively good state, Nora finally making her move and asking Trace out on a date.

In any case, I think the end is so many years in the future that even if Tom has already planned things out, he may well change his mind when the time comes.
it is easy to forget the comic does some quite direct racial allegories and social commentary which it usually wear in its sleeve. That is one of the things i like the most about it. It is not just kitty people has something to say.
I don't think the allegories or commentary are directly transferable at all, and in fact I would find it a boring disappointment if I thought that the story in the comic was nothing more than Tom's barely-disguised opinions about contemporary "social justice" issues. Obviously it is influenced by real life, but the characters and world have their own logic as well, and things never seem to move in the sort of straight, easy line that would suggest that "making a point" is the main reason that the story exists. To take one most obvious example, there is no real-life equivalent to the huge difference in average life span between dragons, humans, Basitins and Keidran, and the implications of that on interactions between those species. Although that particular topic has been explored in fantasy (e.g. by Tolkien, humans vs. elves & gods) and sci-fi (e.g. by Asimov, Spacers vs Earthmen).

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Re: Comic for February 15th, 2020: Formal Proposal

#19 Post by Bellhead »

Ddraig wrote: Sun Feb 16, 2020 3:50 am Or, in a more explicit way of saying it, "Part of me is happy for them, part of me is worried"
I very much agree. Her youth is most likely what's causing her reaction here, coupled with her (probably prejudiced) mostly human-only upbringing. Her ideals are her own, childish views of world peace and all that, but her logic and knowledge directly contradict that. This event is everything her idealistic side wants, and everything her human upbringing has taught her is wrong.

She's not yet at the point of Nora where she can accept any situation at face value, know the future consequences and still remain calm about it. When you're as old as Nora, not much surprises you, because you done been seen just about everything at one point or another. She's over 1000, if I remember right. Reni, on the other hand, is about the same age as the human cast. She's a relative newborn, so of course she wouldn't be able to react accordingly. She can barely contain her own feelings for the Captain, let alone have the nerve to laugh in the face of societal monospecies normality.

Being in this group could teach her valuable life lessons about ignoring prejudice and following your heart. Whether those lessons help or hinder is up for grabs in this world, though. Either way, it's a good experience for her, one she won't soon forget.
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Re: Comic for February 15th, 2020: Formal Proposal

#20 Post by SpottedKitty »

AlphonseVaher wrote: Sun Feb 16, 2020 4:10 am My prediction for what is causing the rumble:

Rose is having a Squee.
Either that or she's just spotted what the wolves are up to, both inside and outside the house.
“Despite rumor, Death isn't cruel — merely terribly, terribly good at his job.”
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Re: Comic for February 15th, 2020: Formal Proposal

#21 Post by Tyger42 »

Damnit, Red! You were starting to do so well.

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Re: Comic for February 15th, 2020: Formal Proposal

#22 Post by Bellhead »

Tyger42 wrote: Sun Feb 16, 2020 12:44 pm Damnit, Red! You were starting to do so well.
Give him some credit. He's not calling either of them crazy, per se, just that what they're doing is. He also doesn't seem to be attempting to snap Trace out of it, so he can at least consider it, which is a HUGE step for him.

Still racist, don't get me wrong. But forward progress is good.

Typing this out on a smartphone was a nightmare...
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Re: Comic for February 15th, 2020: Formal Proposal

#23 Post by Phaing »

IHeartMaeve wrote: Sun Feb 16, 2020 3:13 am Well, I'm just gonna say this now. This is adorable as heck, but the ending panel can't symbolize anything good about to happen.

Also, good for Trace, not caring what people will think of him for doing something so apparently outlandish as marrying a Keidran. Let's all take a step back and consider this a good life lesson: "If it's something you really want to do, you shouldn't care what others will think about you."
Well, look at is this way; Most of us have relations that are challenged by the endless, hum-drum, grinding pace of life. Trace and Flora, on the other hand, have something exiting and wild to deal with and it is happening right now!

YES, good for Trace! But then again, he has proven time and time again that he has the rarest kind of courage, Moral courage, so to me this was more or less inevitable.

Red just blew it with :raine: .... oh, wait, she looks just as shocked as anyone else. Hmmm, how interesting...

LAST THING; I suspect that what is coming is NOT going to be such a direct problem for Trace and Flora. This might be more of a trial for Scythe, if he actually has any feelings for Maren (and I think he does) and perhaps a time of sacrifice for one or both of them.
Trace and Flora might be central to the story (not so much lately) but the fest of the gang has their own set of problems, too.
"If you’re going to tell people the truth, you'd better make them laugh; otherwise, they will kill you."

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Re: Comic for February 15th, 2020: Formal Proposal

#24 Post by Dadrobit »

Bellhead wrote: Sun Feb 16, 2020 5:38 pm
Tyger42 wrote: Sun Feb 16, 2020 12:44 pm Damnit, Red! You were starting to do so well.
Give him some credit. He's not calling either of them crazy, per se, just that what they're doing is. He also doesn't seem to be attempting to snap Trace out of it, so he can at least consider it, which is a HUGE step for him.

Still racist, don't get me wrong. But forward progress is good.

Typing this out on a smartphone was a nightmare...
Red and Raine is an odd dynamic for more than a few reasons. It's been talked about a fair bit before here, that Raine is Red's catalyst for accepting Keidran. But personally I really don't think that she's the best or most important figure in rectifying his views. Remember, Raine is purebred, 100% human and he knows that. His relationship with Raine realistically could be less of him accepting Keidran, and rather more so him accepting that Raine has what he views is a magical "disability" that he can deal with. A more direct impact to improving him will be Trace and Flora formally officiating their marriage, Red's general friendship with Sythe, and potentially even Maren and Sythe's relationship if they make it that far.
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Re: Comic for February 15th, 2020: Formal Proposal

#25 Post by Esn »

Dadrobit wrote: Mon Feb 17, 2020 6:10 amRaine is purebred, 100% human
50%. Father is Euchre. Even if he was using "perfect transformation" at the time.

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Re: Comic for February 15th, 2020: Formal Proposal

#26 Post by AndreRhineDavis »

Esn wrote: Mon Feb 17, 2020 11:26 am
Dadrobit wrote: Mon Feb 17, 2020 6:10 amRaine is purebred, 100% human
50%. Father is Euchre. Even if he was using "perfect transformation" at the time.
Putting aside the question of whether Raine is "really" half-human half-Keidran or fully human with a Keidran side, what's more important is the way Raine and Red both think about Raine's nature and identity, rather than the scientific truth, whatever it may be. Raine sees herself as fully human with a Keidran side, as a human with this "curse" as she puts it. This makes sense as she grew up most of her life fully human, with the Keidran side suppressed. As for Red, if he had met Raine in her Keidran form or if she had been transforming when they first met, he probably would have thought of her as a dirty Keidran. But he's gotten to know her as a human and therefore mentally models her as human, and so the revelation of her heritage leads him more to view her as "a human with a curse" rather than half-human half-Keidran.

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Re: Comic for February 15th, 2020: Formal Proposal

#27 Post by Bellhead »

AndreRhineDavis wrote: Mon Feb 17, 2020 12:00 pmsnip
True. It does seem that he's trying to find other ways to rationalize what he's seen, rather than accept it as it has been explained. And Raine's only a little better, with that whole curse mentality, but at least she's capable of learning better, and is trying to.
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Re: Comic for February 15th, 2020: Formal Proposal

#28 Post by Warrl »

Esn wrote: Mon Feb 17, 2020 11:26 am
Dadrobit wrote: Mon Feb 17, 2020 6:10 amRaine is purebred, 100% human
50%. Father is Euchre. Even if he was using "perfect transformation" at the time.
100%. She was conceived at a time when human-keidran hybrids were not possible*. Therefore she isn't one. "Perfect transformation" necessarily extends to the genetic level, and Euchre was human at at the time; otherwise Raine would not exist.

* In fact, at present it's still not completely clear that they are possible - Flora's baby could be a specifically-allowed special case. We haven't learned of anyone else in-comic with an otherwise inexplicable pregnancy, although quite a few of the readers think that they probably are out there somewhere in the world. (Personally I think there are a bunch of them, but there hasn't been a story-appropriate time to make that apparent - plus they aren't showing all that obviously yet.)

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Re: Comic for February 15th, 2020: Formal Proposal

#29 Post by Esn »

Warrl wrote: Wed Feb 19, 2020 5:55 am 100%. She was conceived at a time when human-keidran hybrids were not possible*. Therefore she isn't one.
http://twokinds.keenspot.com/comic/728/
"The gods do not look kindly on those who thwart their laws"
So clearly the "laws" WERE thwarted in Raine's case, or at least Raine herself believes so. Dragons can thwart them, too:
http://twokinds.keenspot.com/comic/1015/
"...and they don't care what the masks have to say about it"

From Tom's past descriptions of the masks, it's clear that they are not all powerful; they can be defeated, and their rules can sometimes be broken or bypassed. So just because one of the masks forbid something doesn't mean that there weren't ways around it.

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Re: Comic for February 15th, 2020: Formal Proposal

#30 Post by Yastreb »

Warrl wrote: Wed Feb 19, 2020 5:55 am 100%. She was conceived at a time when human-keidran hybrids were not possible*. Therefore she isn't one. "Perfect transformation" necessarily extends to the genetic level, and Euchre was human at at the time; otherwise Raine would not exist.
If perfect transformation made Euchre identical to humans in every respect, there would be no reason for Raine to be anything else than a normal human girl. Since she is a shapeshifter, we must assume that even when in human form Euchre's magical equivalent of DNA was part-human and part-keidran.

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