Twokinds Forums

Qwe304 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 04, 2019 11:44 pmI assume that the muscular appearance is due to the training of being an assassin, which I assume would be quite physically taxing. This would explain nat and zen's similar builds (minus the obvious), as they would both go through the same training.

Fair point, and though that training would have taken place many years ago by now, their occupation would no doubt require frequent intense physical activity, like sparring, climbing trees, etc. I remember the way Keith brought up them sparring shortly after they left the mainland, as if it had already been a normal thing between them. Even a daily fight would be enough to stay in shape at that point, methinks.

Insomniac wrote:Well, my first instinct is to say he'd have smaller breasts if he'd worked out that much, but everyone's body is different.

From our point of view, that is much more typical, yes. But from what I understand, and correct me if I'm wrong, Working out (or exercise in general) wouldn't make your breasts smaller, would it? I'll admit it's less likely for someone as.. stacked as Nat is to exercise that much, but only due to the physics involved in them shaking around, which can be painful at times. Nat, on the other hand, has those enchanted interdimensional magic bindings, and who KNOWS where that mass goes.

Bellhead wrote: ↑Thu Dec 05, 2019 12:36 amBut from what I understand, and correct me if I'm wrong, Working out (or exercise in general) wouldn't make your breasts smaller, would it?

It certainly can. The prominence of human female breasts is mostly fat. Muscle is denser than fat. So to build muscle and NOT lose breast size, an otherwise-low-fat female must eat enough to fuel the exercise (on top of normal body operation) AND provide the full weight of the additional muscle.

A high-fat female who goes on (and sticks with) a serious exercise program is probably going to lose fat everywhere, including in the breasts, even if weight loss is not part of the intent.

Warrl wrote: ↑Thu Dec 05, 2019 12:43 am

Bellhead wrote: ↑Thu Dec 05, 2019 12:36 amBut from what I understand, and correct me if I'm wrong, Working out (or exercise in general) wouldn't make your breasts smaller, would it?

It certainly can. The prominence of human female breasts is mostly fat. Muscle is denser than fat. So to build muscle and NOT lose breast size, an otherwise-low-fat female must eat enough to fuel the exercise (on top of normal body operation) AND provide the full weight of the additional muscle.

A high-fat female who goes on (and sticks with) a serious exercise program is probably going to lose fat everywhere, including in the breasts, even if weight loss is not part of the intent.

Well huh. Learn something new everyday.

Bellhead wrote: ↑Thu Dec 05, 2019 1:03 am

Warrl wrote: ↑Thu Dec 05, 2019 12:43 am

Bellhead wrote: ↑Thu Dec 05, 2019 12:36 amBut from what I understand, and correct me if I'm wrong, Working out (or exercise in general) wouldn't make your breasts smaller, would it?

It certainly can. The prominence of human female breasts is mostly fat. Muscle is denser than fat. So to build muscle and NOT lose breast size, an otherwise-low-fat female must eat enough to fuel the exercise (on top of normal body operation) AND provide the full weight of the additional muscle.

A high-fat female who goes on (and sticks with) a serious exercise program is probably going to lose fat everywhere, including in the breasts, even if weight loss is not part of the intent.

Well huh. Learn something new everyday.

Breast tissue develops separately from fat, so while the fat does impact the size of breasts, it's not the main thing that makes them bigger. For example, trans men who go on testosterone typically still have female breasts unless they get surgery, even though their fat distribution will be entirely male ~5+ years in. I know several who have been on testosterone for years, fat and thin, and they still have breasts. On some who are more muscular and have smaller chests, it can resemble typical male pecks, but they still have more breast tissue than your average cis man.

Bec wrote: ↑Thu Dec 05, 2019 2:52 am

Bellhead wrote: ↑Thu Dec 05, 2019 1:03 am

Warrl wrote: ↑Thu Dec 05, 2019 12:43 am

Bellhead wrote: ↑Thu Dec 05, 2019 12:36 amBut from what I understand, and correct me if I'm wrong, Working out (or exercise in general) wouldn't make your breasts smaller, would it?

It certainly can. The prominence of human female breasts is mostly fat. Muscle is denser than fat. So to build muscle and NOT lose breast size, an otherwise-low-fat female must eat enough to fuel the exercise (on top of normal body operation) AND provide the full weight of the additional muscle.

A high-fat female who goes on (and sticks with) a serious exercise program is probably going to lose fat everywhere, including in the breasts, even if weight loss is not part of the intent.

Well huh. Learn something new everyday.

Breast tissue develops separately from fat, so while the fat does impact the size of breasts, it's not the main thing that makes them bigger. For example, trans men who go on testosterone typically still have female breasts unless they get surgery, even though their fat distribution will be entirely male ~5+ years in. I know several who have been on testosterone for years, fat and thin, and they still have breasts. On some who are more muscular and have smaller chests, it can resemble typical male pecks, but they still have more breast tissue than your average cis man.

And there is a lot of natural variation in size, which I assume is genetic. Obese women can have very small breasts and thin women can have very large ones. Natani is pretty stacked. I've always kind of wondered if Tom designed her that way because of the tall busty amazon trope or simply to have more opportunities to torture her.

Poor Nat.
At the end of the day he simply wants to go to the beach with his friends a boyfriend. Without being judge.
Something that even without his gender issues was quite problematic in his old life. Since he was basically a child soldier.
Anyhow I do think there has to be a more practical way for May to go to the beach that wearing his bandages not only raises a lot for akward questions but I doubt is comfortable, besides he probably can't swim without risking to loose them.
Considering Raine is wearing a quite modern bikini I think a full body swimsuit, like those used in professional swimming , enchanted of course to hold everything in place, would do.
Regarding her "design" I think Tom was trying to use irony. The guy most worried to look strong and manly. Turns out to be the most stacked girl in the group.
But I also wonder if it was simply because there were not enough women, at least biologically, in the group by the time he was introduced.

Technic[Bot] wrote: ↑Mon Dec 09, 2019 2:59 am Regarding her "design" I think Tom was trying to use irony. The guy most worried to look strong and manly. Turns out to be the most stacked girl in the group.
But I also wonder if it was simply because there were not enough women, at least biologically, in the group by the time he was introduced.

Originally, yes. At least that was the original excuse.

IIRC, Tom had planned a nice juicy love triangle with the original three, but the idea was eventually scrapped and Natani was introduced to balance out the group. A counterpoint to Keith, as it were. I'd honestly say that decision helped shape a lot of the characters' personalities to what they've become today, of only through the Butterfly Effect.

However, in the early days, Natani DID seem less... ripped. Nowadays, he's got every muscle in existence on full display, while the Arms general was the only other. And Zen. But it got me thinking... Was having Natani that ripped always part of his character, or did that aspect evolve as Tom fleshed him out more? And if it's the latter, what deeper meaning could it have that he's stacked like a model AND ripped as a bodybuilder?

Sorry. Keith and Natani are my favorite characters. Always were. Can't help but speculate.

Technic[Bot] wrote: ↑Mon Dec 09, 2019 2:59 am Poor Nat.
At the end of the day he simply wants to go to the beach with his friends a boyfriend. Without being judge.

I dunno about that. Natani is hypervigilant about noticing people noticing her sexual characteristics. If Natani wanted to avoid judgment she would be aware of the possibility of it in beach clothes and how easily she could hide it. Rather, I think Natani is making her first willful decision to be herself in public, presenting herself in the way she wants to be seen with people who she is not necessarily comfortable and safe around. Flora asking about her bandages is a real test of how that would go and Natani was confident, in control, and satisfied with the result. I think we should all be proud of Natani and the positive effect Keith has had on her.

Bellhead wrote: ↑Mon Dec 09, 2019 3:26 am However, in the early days, Natani DID seem less... ripped.

Wearing loose robes tends to do that.

I can Imagine a couple results of Flora telling Trace Natani's secret, one, "what, you never noticed before?" and the other, "oh? Is that supposed to be important?" For the others, it's uncertain yet whether Raine or Sythe caught Carver's mention of "her", while I'm fairly sure Red, Karen and Maren missed it since they don't know keidran (which he was speaking at that moment). Also, few of them have seen or interacted with her enough yet to notice her actual sex, and most wouldn't even care much beyond remembering Zen talking about "brother". (I seem to get the impression that Sythe is more progressive about gender roles than other wolves.)

Bellhead wrote: ↑Mon Dec 09, 2019 3:26 am

Technic[Bot] wrote: ↑Mon Dec 09, 2019 2:59 am Regarding her "design" I think Tom was trying to use irony. The guy most worried to look strong and manly. Turns out to be the most stacked girl in the group.
But I also wonder if it was simply because there were not enough women, at least biologically, in the group by the time he was introduced.

Originally, yes. At least that was the original excuse.

IIRC, Tom had planned a nice juicy love triangle with the original three, but the idea was eventually scrapped and Natani was introduced to balance out the group. A counterpoint to Keith, as it were. I'd honestly say that decision helped shape a lot of the characters' personalities to what they've become today, of only through the Butterfly Effect.

However, in the early days, Natani DID seem less... ripped. Nowadays, he's got every muscle in existence on full display, while the Arms general was the only other. And Zen. But it got me thinking... Was having Natani that ripped always part of his character, or did that aspect evolve as Tom fleshed him out more? And if it's the latter, what deeper meaning could it have that he's stacked like a model AND ripped as a bodybuilder?

Sorry. Keith and Natani are my favorite characters. Always were. Can't help but speculate.

My statistics are old but in general Nst is the most popular character in the comic followed by Raine.

I think he has always been ripped but Tom style did not showed it but in recent years. Also as a side note most models are really thin an tall most of the flat on every sense.

While one early explanation of Natani's bindings had illusion flattening her chest appearance more than mere binding, various sketches have added some kind of dimensional pocket space function to displace protruding mass. Has this actually become canon in the main story or does it ramain outside at this point? Noone, IIRC, in the main story has mentioned this pocket space yet, while illusion (visual and olfactory) has been mentioned.

AmigaDragon wrote: ↑Thu Dec 12, 2019 11:00 pm While one early explanation of Natani's bindings had illusion flattening her chest appearance more than mere binding, various sketches have added some kind of dimensional pocket space function to displace protruding mass. Has this actually become canon in the main story or does it ramain outside at this point? Noone, IIRC, in the main story has mentioned this pocket space yet, while illusion (visual and olfactory) has been mentioned.

I think the pocket space is simply a joke that got carried away. I doubt we will ever get "in canon" mention of that. Perhaps in the end he might get some proper enchanted garment for that same purpose but the canon bandages are enchanted

Technic[Bot] wrote: ↑Fri Dec 13, 2019 2:03 am

AmigaDragon wrote: ↑Thu Dec 12, 2019 11:00 pm While one early explanation of Natani's bindings had illusion flattening her chest appearance more than mere binding, various sketches have added some kind of dimensional pocket space function to displace protruding mass. Has this actually become canon in the main story or does it ramain outside at this point? Noone, IIRC, in the main story has mentioned this pocket space yet, while illusion (visual and olfactory) has been mentioned.

I think the pocket space is simply a joke that got carried away. I doubt we will ever get "in canon" mention of that. Perhaps in the end he might get some proper enchanted garment for that same purpose but the canon bandages are enchanted

Joke or not, Natani needs crystals for his bindings. I think the pocket space may have become canon, and may be retconned into the earlier comics eventually.

The reference sheets are canon, aren't they?
https://www.deviantart.com/twokinds/art ... -792169381
"Magical bindings hide breasts in a small pocket dimension."

For some definitions of "small"...