Comic for August 17, 2019: Fitting Form

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Comic for August 17, 2019: Fitting Form

#1 Post by AndreRhineDavis » Sat Aug 17, 2019 8:35 am

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yay this comic came out fast :)
somehow the idea of Reni "spying" on the gang makes me uncomfortable, she just seems so sweet and honest, I don't like the idea of her being a "spy". But then again, she doesn't really need to be secretive or deceptive. She has already read Trace's mind directly! (and Maddie's come to that). She could just report to Keiren exactly what she saw in Trace's mind. I guess the question is how much information she actually gets... does she like look over all their thoughts and memories in detail, or is it like just quick snapshots / summaries of what happened.
But yeah, if she wants to know more details, like how and why Trace and the Basitins appeared right at the time of the attacks, she can just ask to read their minds! "I just want to look through your memories to see if there's any information you might know that could help me with the safety of Edinmire, and just to make 100% certain that you are trustworthy". Or you know, she could just ask any of the characters directly about their motives and histories, many of whom would probably just tell her the truth anyway.

But yeah, the whole Reni mindreading thing seems quite a powerful plot device. Why did Reni ask whether Trace could vouch for Natani's trustworthiness when she could just read their mind? Why must Reni wait for Lieutenant Reed when she can just read Brutus' mind? (like she did before when he was unconscious?). How do you know if Brutus is telling the truth? Just read his mind! What's Brahn actually up to? Read his mind! It seems like a lot of problems can be solved this way.

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Re: Comic for August 17, 2019: Fitting Form

#2 Post by Titanium Dragon » Sat Aug 17, 2019 9:08 am

But yeah, the whole Reni mindreading thing seems quite a powerful plot device. Why did Reni ask whether Trace could vouch for Natani's trustworthiness when she could just read their mind? Why must Reni wait for Lieutenant Reed when she can just read Brutus' mind? (like she did before when he was unconscious?). How do you know if Brutus is telling the truth? Just read his mind! What's Brahn actually up to? Read his mind! It seems like a lot of problems can be solved this way.
Well, beyond it being rude, Remi had to ask to be able to read Trace's mind, and Trace was easily able to resist showing her stuff he didn't want to. Brutus being unconscious probably allowed her to read his mind (because he wasn't able to resist) but seeing as she can't speak Keidran, she can't really do anything with what she saw. With Brutus awake, she probably can't just casually scan his mind, and it's unlikely he'd just let her do so.

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Re: Comic for August 17, 2019: Fitting Form

#3 Post by greywolf » Sat Aug 17, 2019 11:43 am

Can't wait to see what she chooses. Human, keidran, basitan, or animal (squirrel would be to funny)

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Obnoxious Keiren

#4 Post by JDEzekude » Sat Aug 17, 2019 12:27 pm

Hmph...I've always looked down on Keiren, but I'm never sure whether he's a short-sighted coward or a two-faced simpleton. One minute he's quaking in his boots, the next minute he's talking behind others' backs. He's not even calling Flora by name here! She's just a "tiger" to him!

I'm somewhat relieved to hear that he didn't mention Keith and Natani, considering his paranoia towards Keidran and perhaps Basitins too. If he did mention them, I would be eager to see his head on a plate, right in between the heads of Brahn and Clovis.
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Re: Comic for August 17, 2019: Fitting Form

#5 Post by Eclipse » Sat Aug 17, 2019 3:34 pm

This is an interesting moral quandary for Reni. She seems to be too polite to spy, but she has a thing for Kei, so she's probably feeling very conflicted right now. Sucks that he put her in this situation, but it's understandable given the circumstances. I'd be suspicious of Mekkan's Hitler too if he suddenly showed up acting all nice just before an attack. Hopefully he'll be a little more at ease knowing he lost his memory.

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Re: Comic for August 17, 2019: Fitting Form

#6 Post by Rafe » Sat Aug 17, 2019 4:25 pm

Reni should trust Trace for one main reason - during her look into Traces memories, she saw him interacting with Nora, who sensed (through space and time, yet) that she was being observed by Reni, and shamed her for prying.
(http://twokinds.keenspot.com/comic/958/ ). Reni was not only severely embarrassed, but physically knocked over. It's obvious that Trace having a connection to Nora would make about as big an impression on Reni as anything imaginable. I don't think she doubts Trace in the slightest.

As far as Keiren goes, I don't think he's an idiot, but he's not exactly the wisest, most competent military officer. He looks to me like the type who got the job through his family's influence, and because it was expected of him. He's obviously suspicious and paranoid, but in a war-time situation, with enemies that can be really good at deception, that's understandable. What's also understandable is that Keiren could, in the name of defending Edenmire, make some very big mistakes as far as harming innocent parties.

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Re: Comic for August 17, 2019: Fitting Form

#7 Post by Warrl » Sat Aug 17, 2019 5:21 pm

As far as Keiren goes, I don't think he's an idiot, but he's not exactly the wisest, most competent military officer.
Well, there's a war with the wolves. The gung-ho military types would go for the army. The really good town-militia officers would be drafted into the army. I would presume that Keiren is among the best - and possibly the best - of what's left.

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Re: Obnoxious Keiren

#8 Post by steelabjur » Sat Aug 17, 2019 5:58 pm

AndreRhineDavis wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 8:35 am
But yeah, the whole Reni mindreading thing seems quite a powerful plot device. Why did Reni ask whether Trace could vouch for Natani's trustworthiness when she could just read their mind? Why must Reni wait for Lieutenant Reed when she can just read Brutus' mind? (like she did before when he was unconscious?). How do you know if Brutus is telling the truth? Just read his mind! What's Brahn actually up to? Read his mind! It seems like a lot of problems can be solved this way.
Because she doesn't read "minds" but memories? She's limited by languages, plus she's not exactly a social butterfly. For example, if she read Natani's memory about the events that led to Keith and Natani's first kiss, the situation would just be confusing to her. It also only gives her that person's side of a situation as they remember it, and that's assuming they haven't been messed with, which we've seen her encounter twice now (Nora with Trace's, and Maddie's via The Thing Behind The Door). Trace doesn't speak Keidran, so he hasn't had a direct conversation with him, relying on Flora and the other Keidran in his dealing with him, if she read his memories involving Natani, she would be just as limited as he was (as she also doesn't speak the language), and without the previous experiences that led up to that memory to form an opinion.
JDEzekude wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 12:27 pm
Hmph...I've always looked down on Keiren, but I'm never sure whether he's a short-sighted coward or a two-faced simpleton. One minute he's quaking in his boots, the next minute he's talking behind others' backs. He's not even calling Flora by name here! She's just a "tiger" to him!

I'm somewhat relieved to hear that he didn't mention Keith and Natani, considering his paranoia towards Keidran and perhaps Basitins too. If he did mention them, I would be eager to see his head on a plate, right in between the heads of Brahn and Clovis.
To be fair, I think his response has more to do with Human society on Mekkan. It seems to be generally frowned upon to be shown as being overly familiar with Keidran, and Princess Reni is certainly part of that society (and who knows if Lt. Reed or other guards were within earshot of that conversation). You can tell from the pause ("and...") that he was choosing his words carefully for his audience. His interest in Trace and Flora is probably based more on his history with Flora as suspicion that they're tangled up in the attack.

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Re: Comic for August 17, 2019: Fitting Form

#9 Post by BadJoke » Sun Aug 18, 2019 2:58 pm

AndreRhineDavis wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 8:35 am
yay this comic came out fast :)
somehow the idea of Reni "spying" on the gang makes me uncomfortable, she just seems so sweet and honest, I don't like the idea of her being a "spy". But then again, she doesn't really need to be secretive or deceptive.
She didn't ask for being a spy. She's doing it because her crush asked and she isn't really motivated nor competent for this stuff. A bit like when you swimming or cycling when you suck at it but do it anyway because you didn't want to disappoint your friends who asked you to. You won't be doing great.
Rafe wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 4:25 pm
As far as Keiren goes, I don't think he's an idiot, but he's not exactly the wisest, most competent military officer. He looks to me like the type who got the job through his family's influence, and because it was expected of him. He's obviously suspicious and paranoid, but in a war-time situation, with enemies that can be really good at deception, that's understandable. What's also understandable is that Keiren could, in the name of defending Edenmire, make some very big mistakes as far as harming innocent parties.
True but to me he seems more focalized on the subject of Flora (is she being pressured into her role?...) than anything else (war and stuff...). Distrusting Templars is a good thing, but here he isn't thinking about his village's safety but Flora's. A classical case of "right for the wrong reasons".
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Re: Comic for August 17, 2019: Fitting Form

#10 Post by Shockwave07 » Sun Aug 18, 2019 8:16 pm

:karen: No one is going to comment on what she's thinking and the slimming swimsuit she imagines Reni wearing? :P

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Re: Comic for August 17, 2019: Fitting Form

#11 Post by Rafe » Sun Aug 18, 2019 11:51 pm

Shockwave07 wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 8:16 pm
:karen: No one is going to comment on what she's thinking and the slimming swimsuit she imagines Reni wearing? :P
Well, imagining Reni in the water did remind me of something. We've been making comments about it here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=8710&start=11685

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Re: Comic for August 17, 2019: Fitting Form

#12 Post by Eclipse » Tue Aug 20, 2019 12:58 am

Also, I think we all know what she meant by her "hips" not fitting through the doors. inb4 pervs
Shockwave07 wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 8:16 pm
:karen: No one is going to comment on what she's thinking and the slimming swimsuit she imagines Reni wearing? :P
I couldn't even tell that was a swimsuit.

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Re: Comic for August 17, 2019: Fitting Form

#13 Post by Shockwave07 » Tue Aug 20, 2019 1:10 am

Eclipse wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 12:58 am
Also, I think we all know what she meant by her "hips" not fitting through the doors. inb4 pervs
Shockwave07 wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 8:16 pm
:karen: No one is going to comment on what she's thinking and the slimming swimsuit she imagines Reni wearing? :P
I couldn't even tell that was a swimsuit.
I'll admit I had to do a double take to see, but seems the outfit is complete with snorkel, goggles, and flippers!

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Re: Comic for August 17, 2019: Fitting Form

#14 Post by AmigaDragon » Tue Aug 20, 2019 1:59 am

Until going through this thread, I didn't notice the flippers.
Eclipse wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 3:34 pm
This is an interesting moral quandary for Reni. She seems to be too polite to spy, but she has a thing for Kei, so she's probably feeling very conflicted right now. Sucks that he put her in this situation, but it's understandable given the circumstances. I'd be suspicious of Mekkan's Hitler too if he suddenly showed up acting all nice just before an attack. Hopefully he'll be a little more at ease knowing he lost his memory.
I agree, being raised among humans, she's too polite to just mindread without permission (or in an official capacity as with Brutus). As for waiting for Reed (mentioned 3 pages ago), it may be proper interrogation protocol to have two guards present for an official record and not just for Reni's mind reading.
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Re: Comic for August 17, 2019: Fitting Form

#15 Post by Yastreb » Tue Aug 20, 2019 10:18 am

AmigaDragon wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 1:59 am
Until going through this thread, I didn't notice the flippers.
Eclipse wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 3:34 pm
This is an interesting moral quandary for Reni. She seems to be too polite to spy, but she has a thing for Kei, so she's probably feeling very conflicted right now. Sucks that he put her in this situation, but it's understandable given the circumstances. I'd be suspicious of Mekkan's Hitler too if he suddenly showed up acting all nice just before an attack. Hopefully he'll be a little more at ease knowing he lost his memory.
I agree, being raised among humans, she's too polite to just mindread without permission (or in an official capacity as with Brutus). As for waiting for Reed (mentioned 3 pages ago), it may be proper interrogation protocol to have two guards present for an official record and not just for Reni's mind reading.
Also Reni doesn't speak Keidran. When she looks into Brutus's mind, "All I hear are sounds." I imagine it's going to go something like this:

*Reni reads Brutus's memories*
Reni: "There is a guy who looks such-and-such and he says something that sounds like [badly mispronounced Keidran]."
Lt. Reed: *Translates*

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