Comic for June 9, 2019: Relearning Control
Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 11:00 am
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I feel like there's more to it than that. Rose did mention earlier that Raine sees her "wolf side" as a split personality rather than a part of herself as a whole, just as Natani used to see her "feminine side".
It seems like - and that's strange, because that's not what they seemed to do previously. Before, they were portrayed as acting to break the wearer's mind and will so that they would *voluntarily* do what they were told, not merely puppeteering the wearer's body without direction from their mind. And yet, Raine's mind seems unaffected, and it's simply her arm moving on its own. This, I think, has to be significant in some way.
That's more or less what I would go with - that and possibly the fact that Raine's baseline state is human.Or, perhaps, does it have to do with Rose's line about how the collars only affect keidran - what does that mean for a hybrid? Right now, only Raine's arms and legs are keidran - is that why the collar can make arm move, but because her body and head (and hence, brain?) are human it isn't affecting her mind?
It could be as simple as the collars only work on keidran, so it's only working on the keidran parts of her body. There are complicated reasons in the real world why that wouldn't work on an arm, but I digress.MuonNeutrino wrote: ↑Sun Jun 09, 2019 7:19 pmIt seems like - and that's strange, because that's not what they seemed to do previously. Before, they were portrayed as acting to break the wearer's mind and will so that they would *voluntarily* do what they were told, not merely puppeteering the wearer's body without direction from their mind. And yet, Raine's mind seems unaffected, and it's simply her arm moving on its own. This, I think, has to be significant in some way.
Either way, I still think there's something a bit weird going on here. Rose should know what the collars do. We have seen no indication previously that it's possible to resist them...
That could be explained away by Eric being a professional slave trader and Trace not being home for probably years and having a strong hatred of Keidran. Eric would certainly have the newest model of the tools of his trade on his ship, while Trace could get by with older ones as he didn't use them much at home (because he doesn't have any Keidran there beyond Rose), and hasn't been there in awhile to boot. Why would Rose order new ones?MuonNeutrino wrote: ↑Sun Jun 09, 2019 7:19 pmIt seems like - and that's strange, because that's not what they seemed to do previously. Before, they were portrayed as acting to break the wearer's mind and will so that they would *voluntarily* do what they were told, not merely puppeteering the wearer's body without direction from their mind. And yet, Raine's mind seems unaffected, and it's simply her arm moving on its own. This, I think, has to be significant in some way.
Are the collars at the legacy estate simply a different model? On the surface there doesn't seem any reason why that couldn't be the case, but on further reflection if that's the case it seems backwards. If there are different models of collar, the legacy estate ought to have the best, most sophisticated and effective type - and yet, the ones on Eric's ship are the subtle ones that warp the wearer's mind into perfect obedience, while the ones at the legacy estate are a crude brute force variety that merely puppets their bodies while not affecting their minds at all? It doesn't fit. Or, perhaps, does it have to do with Rose's line about how the collars only affect keidran - what does that mean for a hybrid? Right now, only Raine's arms and legs are keidran - is that why the collar can make her arm move, but because her body and head (and hence, brain?) are human it isn't affecting her mind?
You could argue that Trace's collars *are* a more sophisticated and effective type than Eric's collars.steelabjur wrote: ↑Sun Jun 09, 2019 11:33 pmThat could be explained away by Eric being a professional slave trader and Trace not being home for probably years and having a strong hatred of Keidran. Eric would certainly have the newest model of the tools of his trade on his ship, while Trace could get by with older ones as he didn't use them much at home (because he doesn't have any Keidran there beyond Rose), and hasn't been there in awhile to boot. Why would Rose order new ones?MuonNeutrino wrote: ↑Sun Jun 09, 2019 7:19 pmIt seems like - and that's strange, because that's not what they seemed to do previously. Before, they were portrayed as acting to break the wearer's mind and will so that they would *voluntarily* do what they were told, not merely puppeteering the wearer's body without direction from their mind. And yet, Raine's mind seems unaffected, and it's simply her arm moving on its own. This, I think, has to be significant in some way.
Are the collars at the legacy estate simply a different model? On the surface there doesn't seem any reason why that couldn't be the case, but on further reflection if that's the case it seems backwards. If there are different models of collar, the legacy estate ought to have the best, most sophisticated and effective type - and yet, the ones on Eric's ship are the subtle ones that warp the wearer's mind into perfect obedience, while the ones at the legacy estate are a crude brute force variety that merely puppets their bodies while not affecting their minds at all? It doesn't fit. Or, perhaps, does it have to do with Rose's line about how the collars only affect keidran - what does that mean for a hybrid? Right now, only Raine's arms and legs are keidran - is that why the collar can make her arm move, but because her body and head (and hence, brain?) are human it isn't affecting her mind?
Interesting fact: writing "it's" to mean "belonging to it" was actually pretty standard a few hundred years ago, it only became nonstandard in the 19th century.Esn wrote: ↑Mon Jun 10, 2019 12:33 am Hey, a spelling/grammar mistake in the 3rd panel: "mind of it's own" should be "mind of its own" (a simple way to remember: "it's" is always short for either "it is" or "it has", as in "it's been years"="it has been years", but you can only use it for "it has" when it can't be misinterpreted as "it is". So you can't use it for a sentence like "it has a high temperature" because "it's a high temperature" would by default be "it is a high temperature")
Also, I have a bad premonition that the crisis at the end of this chapter will have Brahn controlling Raine through a slave collar and her still not having learned to resist it at all.
Or it could simply be explained away as it depends on the state of mind of the wearer of the collar.AndreRhineDavis wrote: ↑Mon Jun 10, 2019 3:04 amYou could argue that Trace's collars *are* a more sophisticated and effective type than Eric's collars.steelabjur wrote: ↑Sun Jun 09, 2019 11:33 pmThat could be explained away by Eric being a professional slave trader and Trace not being home for probably years and having a strong hatred of Keidran. Eric would certainly have the newest model of the tools of his trade on his ship, while Trace could get by with older ones as he didn't use them much at home (because he doesn't have any Keidran there beyond Rose), and hasn't been there in awhile to boot. Why would Rose order new ones?MuonNeutrino wrote: ↑Sun Jun 09, 2019 7:19 pmIt seems like - and that's strange, because that's not what they seemed to do previously. Before, they were portrayed as acting to break the wearer's mind and will so that they would *voluntarily* do what they were told, not merely puppeteering the wearer's body without direction from their mind. And yet, Raine's mind seems unaffected, and it's simply her arm moving on its own. This, I think, has to be significant in some way.
Are the collars at the legacy estate simply a different model? On the surface there doesn't seem any reason why that couldn't be the case, but on further reflection if that's the case it seems backwards. If there are different models of collar, the legacy estate ought to have the best, most sophisticated and effective type - and yet, the ones on Eric's ship are the subtle ones that warp the wearer's mind into perfect obedience, while the ones at the legacy estate are a crude brute force variety that merely puppets their bodies while not affecting their minds at all? It doesn't fit. Or, perhaps, does it have to do with Rose's line about how the collars only affect keidran - what does that mean for a hybrid? Right now, only Raine's arms and legs are keidran - is that why the collar can make her arm move, but because her body and head (and hence, brain?) are human it isn't affecting her mind?
It is implied that Eric's collars damage the minds of the Keidran under their control, and over time this damage might be permanent. So yes, they force Keidran into submission, but at the cost of mental health of the Keidran. This is not necessarily a desired effect; sure they're less able to rebel, but they'd also be less able to do perform tasks that require intelligence or thought or planning rather than just pure muscle. And it would probably cause them to lose their sanity over time and became useless as slaves.
[Possible retcon idea: "feral" Keidran are actually Keidran who have been under the slave collar so long that their minds couldn't handle it anymore and all their higher intelligence and consciousness just crumpled, leaving them like animals].
Whereas Trace's collars have a far more subtle effect. They are able to control the slave like a puppet, without damaging the mind of the slave. I don't think it's merely "sending nerve signals", I think Raine's brain has to interpret Rose's command of "don't lift your arm" and put that into effect, but it's at a far more subconscious level. Rather than Raine's conscious mind being suppressed, her conscious mind is untouched and hence able to try and fight the command, but her mind is enforcing it at some subconscious level.
So yeah, I think Trace's collars are the more sophisticated ones. They're able to control slaves and keep in them line without actually doing mental damage to the slaves, which allows the slaves to keep doing higher-level more intelligent tasks, and keeps them mentally fit for longer. Whereas it's Eric's collars that take the more "crude / brute force" approach, they just completely force the slave's mind into submission, which would leave them unable to think clearly and unable to do higher-level more intelligent tasks, and eventually "break" the slave, making them useless to humans.
Sick burn, sir. =P If I were her, my agenda would be revenge. However, unlike many who would blow their revenge out of proportion (e.g. indiscriminate malice), I'd carry out mine man-to-man without getting anyone else involved.
Actually Raine needs magical artifacts to keep her in human form, while her "relaxed" state is more often than not keidran.
My explanation is just as true as yours. Yours was what I wrote originally, then I thought about it, and realized that the REASON that rule came into being in the first place among English-speakers is probably because if it were used to shorten "has" in a sentence in which the possessive meaning is used, it would be impossible to tell whether "has" or "is" was meant.AndreRhineDavis wrote: ↑Mon Jun 10, 2019 3:04 amIn other words, you can only write "it's" or "he's" or "I've" etc for "it has" or "he has" or "I have" when the "have" is used as a grammatical particle to express the perfect aspect (e.g. "I have eaten", "it has been a long time"), but NOT when "have" is being used as a normal verb to mean "to possess" (e.g. "I have 3 dogs").
I imagine there are different models for every need. A simple mind control device will be good if all you need is a ship-hand but probably won't work if you need your slave to do your accounting. In any case I also do not understand how is this supposed to help Raine either. As you point out if it was a way for her to realize that the "wolf" is a part of her, no matter her outer form, then it makes sense. But that does not seems to be Rose's idea.MuonNeutrino wrote: ↑Sun Jun 09, 2019 7:19 pm It seems like - and that's strange, because that's not what they seemed to do previously. Before, they were portrayed as acting to break the wearer's mind and will so that they would *voluntarily* do what they were told, not merely puppeteering the wearer's body without direction from their mind. And yet, Raine's mind seems unaffected, and it's simply her arm moving on its own. This, I think, has to be significant in some way.
Are the collars at the legacy estate simply a different model? On the surface there doesn't seem any reason why that couldn't be the case, but on further reflection if that's the case it seems backwards. If there are different models of collar, the legacy estate ought to have the best, most sophisticated and effective type - and yet, the ones on Eric's ship are the subtle ones that warp the wearer's mind into perfect obedience, while the ones at the legacy estate are a crude brute force variety that merely puppets their bodies while not affecting their minds at all? It doesn't fit. Or, perhaps, does it have to do with Rose's line about how the collars only affect keidran - what does that mean for a hybrid? Right now, only Raine's arms and legs are keidran - is that why the collar can make her arm move, but because her body and head (and hence, brain?) are human it isn't affecting her mind?
Either way, I still think there's something a bit weird going on here. Rose should know what the collars do. We have seen no indication previously that it's possible to resist them - in fact, they've been presented as terrifying free-will destroying mind control devices. When all we had seen of this comic after Tom drew it last week was the art, before the dialog was added, I had been thinking that perhaps Eclipse was right in his comment from a couple comics ago -- that the point of the collar was not *actually* to help Raine with her ability, but to show Raine that the 'keidran-only' collar still affected her and therefore force her to confront her skewed mindset and admit that her wolf heritage really is part of her rather than being some sort of 'other'. But the dialog for this page goes in another direction, and one that honestly still doesn't make sense to me. Why does Rose think that Raine would be able to resist the collar? "Everyone has an agenda", eh Rose? What's yours, then?
I think Trace's collars would be the most sophisticated to the point they are custom made and have different "settings":AndreRhineDavis wrote: ↑Mon Jun 10, 2019 3:04 am You could argue that Trace's collars *are* a more sophisticated and effective type than Eric's collars.
It is implied that Eric's collars damage the minds of the Keidran under their control, and over time this damage might be permanent. So yes, they force Keidran into submission, but at the cost of mental health of the Keidran. This is not necessarily a desired effect; sure they're less able to rebel, but they'd also be less able to do perform tasks that require intelligence or thought or planning rather than just pure muscle. And it would probably cause them to lose their sanity over time and became useless as slaves.
[Possible retcon idea: "feral" Keidran are actually Keidran who have been under the slave collar so long that their minds couldn't handle it anymore and all their higher intelligence and consciousness just crumpled, leaving them like animals].
Whereas Trace's collars have a far more subtle effect. They are able to control the slave like a puppet, without damaging the mind of the slave. I don't think it's merely "sending nerve signals", I think Raine's brain has to interpret Rose's command of "don't lift your arm" and put that into effect, but it's at a far more subconscious level. Rather than Raine's conscious mind being suppressed, her conscious mind is untouched and hence able to try and fight the command, but her mind is enforcing it at some subconscious level.
So yeah, I think Trace's collars are the more sophisticated ones. They're able to control slaves and keep in them line without actually doing mental damage to the slaves, which allows the slaves to keep doing higher-level more intelligent tasks, and keeps them mentally fit for longer. Whereas it's Eric's collars that take the more "crude / brute force" approach, they just completely force the slave's mind into submission, which would leave them unable to think clearly and unable to do higher-level more intelligent tasks, and eventually "break" the slave, making them useless to humans.
I would argue the her base form is neither and both. She seems to change under external stressors, such as life or death situations, if her magic suppression is not turned on. Just like some people get the hiccups when stressed. And stays in a form until something makes her change.Brith0s wrote: ↑Mon Jun 10, 2019 7:30 pmActually Raine needs magical artifacts to keep her in human form, while her "relaxed" state is more often than not keidran.
We do not have IMHO enough information on Euchre or Rose ancestry to rule out they are hybrids as well.
So I wouldn't consider a given Raine's base form as human.