Comic for May 25, 2019: Lesson One

[Shockwave07]

...I guess this can give a new meaning to "stop hitting yourself!"

[Rafe]

The most revealing thing we see in this scene is Rose, for the first time (outside of flashbacks) having a genuine intense emotional reaction. She's been so insular and self controlled in her interactions with the others that it's painful to watch. True, she's loosened up a bit with Trace, but she still seems very cautious. This time though, just for a minute, we got to see the real Rose and the pain she's been holding inside.



You can imagine what she was going to tell Raine. The question is, what stopped her? Does she feel as if she might be wrong telling in Raine how badly her father hurt her, and possibly turning Raine against Euchre? Or has she possibly reached a point where she doesn't want to hate Euchre anymore, and might even be having thoughts that she is wrong for not forgiving him while they still have time. (Reminding Rose of her age might have triggered this.)

[Foxx Trotter]

If by "busted", you mean "she still feels bitter about being betrayed by her cousin Euchre", then sure. But, despite this, I think Rose does know better. Otherwise, she would've left Maddie and Karen for dead when they were snooping around the Guardian's Room.

The point The Mouse made was something totally different than what I was implying, but does factor into this conversation. This is more of a devious tactic Rose made on Raine (although for good intentions in this case) which, in a way, makes her no better than something Euchre may do (such as the betrayal)...based on when Raine brought up "family" regarding trust. Rose now feels guilty of taking such a drastic route on her and is having second thoughts about the whole situation. What good is trusting others in your family if you can't even be trusted? Yes...Raine can be a bit dense, but she's also had a sheltered life. Rose is gonna have to try a different approach on things.

[JDEzekude]

What good is trusting others in your family if you can't even be trusted?

That depends on how you badly you betray someone and why. As we've seen earlier, Euchre practically left Rose for dead so that he wouldn't give away his human disguise. Naturally, this strained his interpersonal relationships beyond repair.

Keith had a different reason for initially selling out his friends to the Basidian Empire when it was under Templar influence. His cooperation was seemingly his only hope of getting his old life back. But, in the end, he gave up on all that to rescue his friends and do the right thing. ...And the Basidian Isles can burn for all I care...
The key difference here is that Keith evidently has a bigger conscience, hence his vulnerability and paranoia. Unlike the persuasive and somewhat pretentious Euchre, he doesn't easily get over his misgivings and faults. And, to be honest, neither do I.

[Foxx Trotter]

That depends on how you badly you betray someone and why. As we've seen earlier, Euchre practically left Rose for dead so that he wouldn't give away his human disguise. Naturally, this strained his interpersonal relationships beyond repair.

Keith had a different reason for initially selling out his friends to the Basidian Empire when it was under Templar influence. His cooperation was seemingly his only hope of getting his old life back. But, in the end, he gave up on all that to rescue his friends and do the right thing. ...And the Basidian Isles can burn for all I care...
The key difference here is that Keith evidently has a bigger conscience, hence his vulnerability and paranoia. Unlike the persuasive and somewhat pretentious Euchre, he doesn't easily get over his misgivings and faults. And, to be honest, neither do I.

I was just using the betrayal as an example of mistrust, not actually pertaining as to what Rose was trying to do in helping Raine with her situation using the collar proposal which is obviously a totally different thing and level from Euchre's motives but is also an example of mistrust in this case. That is was I was addressing. Mistrust doesn't have to be betrayal, but can also be misleading someone to think things which aren't actually or exactly true. Also, deceiving someone doesn't necessarily mean betrayal.

[Kyrit]

The most revealing thing we see in this scene is Rose, for the first time (outside of flashbacks) having a genuine intense emotional reaction. She's been so insular and self controlled in her interactions with the others that it's painful to watch. True, she's loosened up a bit with Trace, but she still seems very cautious. This time though, just for a minute, we got to see the real Rose and the pain she's been holding inside

I'd argue that this counts as a pretty genuine and intense emotional reaction. A different sort of emotional reaction, but still pretty intense and one that she also quickly backpedaled away from just a moment later. I'd say it counted as more than loosening up just a little. It's rare, and yes so far it's mostly just been around Trace since finding out he's a different person now, but she has shown a good range of emotion. I would at least agree that this is the first time she's looked sad around anyone but Trace during their private conversations.

[DragnMastralex]

lesson two, rose steps out saying she needs some air because of the family remark.... red steps in a moment later not knowing what went down and sees rayne almost full wolf again and tells her she can kiss that idea goodbye and the collar she's wearing misunderstands and she begins to kiss Red.

[Rafe]

...I'd argue that this counts as a pretty genuine and intense emotional reaction. A different sort of emotional reaction, but still pretty intense and one that she also quickly backpedaled away from just a moment later...

I agree with your point. The only difference is probably that in your example, she saw her reaction coming and had a little time to decide how to react. In this latest one, Rose doesn't even realize what she's said until she's already said it. She seems to have let her fear and pain slip out and then realized "...Oh, gods! What did I just say? I can't let Raine see this part of me!".

[Brith0s]

Raine finds herself in a quite uncomfortable spot. She is guest at Legacy estate. As in Trace Legacy, former Grand Templar, who overthrew her mother. A disquieting Rose has just collared her and has control over. The very same Rose betrayed on the gallows by her father…

Trace is more of a friend and protector to Raine at this point than Euchre.

Is he?
I am really bugged by the Trace vs. Raine interaction (or better, the lack of it). She is what? 18, if we accord canon status to reference sheets. So she was 14 when Trace overpowered Mary. Old enough to remember her mother’s disappearance. Maybe Trace’s plot has never been exposed and he has never been blamed for Mary’s disappearance, but I feel rather unlikely that Raine didn’t link the two facts and she must at least have suspicions. In her place, I wouldn’t buy amnesia as a valid reason to forgive Trace’s actions, even if she was explained the changes in his attitude.
So why she goes willingly at all with the others? I can see the reasons to stay at Trace’s of Red, Karen and Maren, who are old acquaintances. Zen is badly wounded and needs to recover, so he has not much choice either.
Sythe and Raine are the two most likely to walk away from the party, with the weakest reasons to stick at the estate (unless we jump merrily on the shipping wagon…). They, at the moment, have simply no better place to go, with the war with the Wolves rampaging.
It doesn’t make much sense for Trace and co. to keep Raine with them as well. For all they know, she could well harbor strong resentment towards Trace. Once she achieves magic control, she could prove herself a dangerous foe. So the theme of Raine confronting Trace still has to be played out: for me, Raine is simply too powerful and involved to remain on the sidelines of this war.
Note that we never had a real interaction between Raine and Trace. When Reni arrives to rescue Zen and the others, the two don’t exchange a single word. There is only one panel where the two are portrayed together, and it is on page 1020. (well, there is also the Girls Bathes scene, way back on p. 59!). Not much love lost between the two. I think this is author’s intention all along, and I look forward to see meaningful interaction develop between the two in due course.

P.S. first post, so please be nice and do not stone the noob.

[aitaituo]

Regardless of Trace and Raine's feelings towards each other, Trace is currently giving her food, clothing, shelter, security from hostile Templar, and access to her only decent relative who can teach her to control her transformations, which is Raine's number one concern at the moment. I'm not saying Trace is consciously lifting a finger to help her, I'm just saying Euchre isn't doing anything at all for his daughter. Euchre didn't even bother to ask Rose to take care of her, IIRC.

[Technic[Bot]]

I've seen reverse psychology backfire before, but this is a new level of fail.

Also good point on signaling another BIG flaw we tend to forget about Raine: she's far too naive. Thanks to her awful parents she has spent her youth stuck inside home and never learned who she could or should trust. And in the world of TK, where most if not all the characters actually advancing their plans are manipulative [censored] (good or evil) it could prove deadly soon enough.
I mean, the whole "sparing Zen because killing is bad" was already a bad idea. Sure it did proved to be the good choice but only AFTERWARD. And made sense only from our point of view. In practice she just advocated for sparing a professional killer bent on murdering all of them for money when her group was obviously not disposing of the means to keep such a prisoner in check just because she didn't like the idea of killing him... and Zen did escape his bonds after that. That's called tempting fate.
And that's not even mentioning sparing Carver, which may end up being a problem later on (despite the geographic distance).

You now I kinda respect Raine on that regard.
Sure sparing Zen made zero sense given her situation, in fact had the collar not broke the link with Natani I am sure he would have killed them once he managed to take it off, Also while on that topic, were we given a reason why Zen decided to forgo his contract, beside his bro falling into a coma and all that.
Raina understood that, she new it was a bad idea yet for her killing Zen while bound and defeated was not morally acceptableand decided to look for alternatives. It is easy being nice and good on optimal situations, not so much in the middle of war. She choose to held her values over her safety, a bit naive and not safe at all but i have to respect that decision.
Unlike Flora, she decided to let Nat accompany simply cause she is too dense to actually comprehend that is a bad idea. She was not upholding any ideal she just wasn't paying enough attention to realize how terrible idea it was.

I am really bugged by the Trace vs. Raine interaction (or better, the lack of it). She is what? 18, if we accord canon status to reference sheets. So she was 14 when Trace overpowered Mary. Old enough to remember her mother’s disappearance. Maybe Trace’s plot has never been exposed and he has never been blamed for Mary’s disappearance, but I feel rather unlikely that Raine didn’t link the two facts and she must at least have suspicions. In her place, I wouldn’t buy amnesia as a valid reason to forgive Trace’s actions, even if she was explained the changes in his attitude.
So why she goes willingly at all with the others? I can see the reasons to stay at Trace’s of Red, Karen and Maren, who are old acquaintances. Zen is badly wounded and needs to recover, so he has not much choice either.
Sythe and Raine are the two most likely to walk away from the party, with the weakest reasons to stick at the estate (unless we jump merrily on the shipping wagon…). They, at the moment, have simply no better place to go, with the war with the Wolves rampaging.
It doesn’t make much sense for Trace and co. to keep Raine with them as well. For all they know, she could well harbor strong resentment towards Trace. Once she achieves magic control, she could prove herself a dangerous foe. So the theme of Raine confronting Trace still has to be played out: for me, Raine is simply too powerful and involved to remain on the sidelines of this war.
Note that we never had a real interaction between Raine and Trace. When Reni arrives to rescue Zen and the others, the two don’t exchange a single word. There is only one panel where the two are portrayed together, and it is on page 1020. (well, there is also the Girls Bathes scene, way back on p. 59!). Not much love lost between the two. I think this is author’s intention all along, and I look forward to see meaningful interaction develop between the two in due course.

P.S. first post, so please be nice and do not stone the noob.

If I am not mistaken after overthworing Mary. Trace sent her and Raine to be sold as slaves, they were subsequently saved byEuchre. So I am pretty sure Raine now who Trace is and what he did. Yet Trace has probably no idea who is this white haired chick that is hanging with [Foreign key error], Maren, Sythe and company and no one has bothered to tell him. On the other hand i do not think nobody has told Raine where is she, for what she knows she might think is in Reni's castle. And even if she knew I am pretty sure she has her head full, from taking care of Sythe ,trying to stay human, and meeting the only family she has left.
But you do have a very good point, eventually there has to be some sort or Interaction between the amnesiac genocide and the naive white wolf and it definitely can't be all sugar and rainbows.
What i would like to see is that Raine bonds with her aunt while training and meanwhile Trace, as luck would have it, finds his real lab and goes all psychopath again. Of course the first thing is to remove Rose from the equations as she has too much control now. Since that is all she has Raine tries to defend her and on a emotional outburst manages to ovepower dark Trace. Or something like that

[AndreRhineDavis]

Raine finds herself in a quite uncomfortable spot. She is guest at Legacy estate. As in Trace Legacy, former Grand Templar, who overthrew her mother. A disquieting Rose has just collared her and has control over. The very same Rose betrayed on the gallows by her father…

Trace is more of a friend and protector to Raine at this point than Euchre.

Is he?
I am really bugged by the Trace vs. Raine interaction (or better, the lack of it). She is what? 18, if we accord canon status to reference sheets. So she was 14 when Trace overpowered Mary. Old enough to remember her mother’s disappearance. Maybe Trace’s plot has never been exposed and he has never been blamed for Mary’s disappearance, but I feel rather unlikely that Raine didn’t link the two facts and she must at least have suspicions. In her place, I wouldn’t buy amnesia as a valid reason to forgive Trace’s actions, even if she was explained the changes in his attitude.
So why she goes willingly at all with the others? I can see the reasons to stay at Trace’s of Red, Karen and Maren, who are old acquaintances. Zen is badly wounded and needs to recover, so he has not much choice either.
Sythe and Raine are the two most likely to walk away from the party, with the weakest reasons to stick at the estate (unless we jump merrily on the shipping wagon…). They, at the moment, have simply no better place to go, with the war with the Wolves rampaging.
It doesn’t make much sense for Trace and co. to keep Raine with them as well. For all they know, she could well harbor strong resentment towards Trace. Once she achieves magic control, she could prove herself a dangerous foe. So the theme of Raine confronting Trace still has to be played out: for me, Raine is simply too powerful and involved to remain on the sidelines of this war.
Note that we never had a real interaction between Raine and Trace. When Reni arrives to rescue Zen and the others, the two don’t exchange a single word. There is only one panel where the two are portrayed together, and it is on page 1020. (well, there is also the Girls Bathes scene, way back on p. 59!). Not much love lost between the two. I think this is author’s intention all along, and I look forward to see meaningful interaction develop between the two in due course.

P.S. first post, so please be nice and do not stone the noob.

Yeah it's weird... so when Raine first met group B she had become separated from her mother, as they were on the run together.
So you'd think her main goal would be to reunite with Mary. But after some initial resistance, Raine seems pretty happy just to chill with group B without any particular goal in mind.
She and Mary finally reunite during the whole fiasco as Ephemural takes over Flora, but then Mary's like "well good luck on your travels Trace, cya", and the next time we see Raine (or group B at all!) is when the wolves are attacking the village.
So after Raine and Mary met up after they were separated, Mary just... idk... up and left? (where has she been and what has she been doing since this point anyway?), and Raine's just been hanging with group B as her new family? I mean, until the wolf attack, group B had just been hanging at the tavern, living their lives, and Raine is still chilling with them. I guess she forgot about / doesn't care about rejoining her mother now? But I mean, Raine lived the first 14 years of her life alone, and then the next 4 years as a slave with her mother until they were freed by Euchre... and then went to Lyn'knoll??? Actually, where does that fit in to this? (Also for the people saying that the residents of Lyn'knoll wouldn't be too happy with Trace Legacy joining them, we know that they did accept the ex-Grand Templar it seems!). According to Raine's story, she and her mother were sold into slavery as Keidran by Trace, then Euchre freed them, then as they were escaping they got separated and Raine bumped into group B. So where does Lyn'knoll fit into all this? It's confusing. I guess we could chalk it up to Tom not having planned / developed the story and the characters back then as consistently as he does today. Either way, Raine seems to be pretty happy with her "new family" in group B, and she has shown little inclination to want to leave them. For someone who has spent so much of their life alone, it must be nice for Raine to have found a group of friends to live with. <shrug>.

I don't see Raine harbouring any resentment towards Trace, she seems too nice and sweet to hate anyone. I mean, we saw how nice she was to Zen, the wolf who literally tried to kill group B. The main question is how much she knows about Trace's amnesia and him being all "nice" now. Like you said, she has had little to no direct interaction with Trace. However, we know that Mary (through Ephemural) was directly involved with the whole giving Trace amnesia thing. Actually, this scene brings up more questions. Was Mary still with Raine at this point? Did Raine know about Mary's deal with Ephemural? Or was it the deal with Ephemural that led Mary to leave Raine and pursue this whole other course, which Raine thinks is just them "getting separated" while on the run. So many questions...
Either way, Mary clearly knows exactly what the deal is with Trace, and so if she didn't tell Raine directly, I'm sure Raine would have heard from the others in group B how Trace is acting all different now and how he lost his memories. Not to mention that when Raine and Mary met up again, it was in the whole big battle when Emphemural was telling everyone how they stole Trace's memories to make him fall in love with Flora, etc etc etc.

To be honest, I kind of wish that Tom could go back and rewrite the earlier chapters of TwoKinds to make all the characters and story and lore etc less confusing and more consistent with his current plan xP

Also, welcome to the forums Brith0s! :D

[patchesrips]

Family... I still wish that "April Fool's Day joke" would turn out to be true and Rose really is Red's mother.

[Technic[Bot]]

Yeah it's weird... so when Raine first met group B she had become separated from her mother, as they were on the run together.
So you'd think her main goal would be to reunite with Mary. But after some initial resistance, Raine seems pretty happy just to chill with group B without any particular goal in mind.
She and Mary finally reunite during the whole fiasco as Ephemural takes over Flora, but then Mary's like "well good luck on your travels Trace, cya", and the next time we see Raine (or group B at all!) is when the wolves are attacking the village.
So after Raine and Mary met up after they were separated, Mary just... idk... up and left? (where has she been and what has she been doing since this point anyway?), and Raine's just been hanging with group B as her new family? I mean, until the wolf attack, group B had just been hanging at the tavern, living their lives, and Raine is still chilling with them. I guess she forgot about / doesn't care about rejoining her mother now? But I mean, Raine lived the first 14 years of her life alone, and then the next 4 years as a slave with her mother until they were freed by Euchre... and then went to Lyn'knoll??? Actually, where does that fit in to this? (Also for the people saying that the residents of Lyn'knoll wouldn't be too happy with Trace Legacy joining them, we know that they did accept the ex-Grand Templar it seems!). According to Raine's story, she and her mother were sold into slavery as Keidran by Trace, then Euchre freed them, then as they were escaping they got separated and Raine bumped into group B. So where does Lyn'knoll fit into all this? It's confusing. I guess we could chalk it up to Tom not having planned / developed the story and the characters back then as consistently as he does today. Either way, Raine seems to be pretty happy with her "new family" in group B, and she has shown little inclination to want to leave them. For someone who has spent so much of their life alone, it must be nice for Raine to have found a group of friends to live with. <shrug>.

I don't see Raine harbouring any resentment towards Trace, she seems too nice and sweet to hate anyone. I mean, we saw how nice she was to Zen, the wolf who literally tried to kill group B. The main question is how much she knows about Trace's amnesia and him being all "nice" now. Like you said, she has had little to no direct interaction with Trace. However, we know that Mary (through Ephemural) was directly involved with the whole giving Trace amnesia thing. Actually, this scene brings up more questions. Was Mary still with Raine at this point? Did Raine know about Mary's deal with Ephemural? Or was it the deal with Ephemural that led Mary to leave Raine and pursue this whole other course, which Raine thinks is just them "getting separated" while on the run. So many questions...
Either way, Mary clearly knows exactly what the deal is with Trace, and so if she didn't tell Raine directly, I'm sure Raine would have heard from the others in group B how Trace is acting all different now and how he lost his memories. Not to mention that when Raine and Mary met up again, it was in the whole big battle when Emphemural was telling everyone how they stole Trace's memories to make him fall in love with Flora, etc etc etc.

To be honest, I kind of wish that Tom could go back and rewrite the earlier chapters of TwoKinds to make all the characters and story and lore etc less confusing and more consistent with his current plan xP

Also, welcome to the forums Brith0s!

For what I gather, after Trace deposes Mary and turned her into a wolf she send her and Raine to live as slaves somewhere. However before they arrived where rescued by Euchre who somehow managed to keep that hidden from our favorite genocidal maniac. Then they went to Lyn'knoll since it was probably the only safe place for a shapeshifter and her transformed mother. Some years later Ephemural decided to cheat on the mask global risk game contact Mary and offer her revenge against Trace in one of the most convoluted plans i have ever seen. Probably at this point she took Raine with her and went to confront the our now amnesiac blue haired hero, eventually getting separated from each other.
Who knows what Mary is up to now. Personally I reckon she left Raine with Maren anc company since she thought it was safer for her. Since after all she is still the deposed, and probably presumed dead, grand templar. Even if Trace is no longer a threat, he still is though, his psychopathic Posee still roams the kingdom trying to fill the power vacuum Trace filled. On top of that the continent was on the brink of war. And since no one really know who or what is Raine it was safer to let her stay on a cozy tavern in the middle of nowhere than having her next to the former Grand Templar.
But yeah Tom's story telling is a bit "over the place" I think that is the technical term. But i respect his decision not to retcon his story and keep working with the limitations he imposed himself so many years ago. Also the comic has a peculiar narrative structure That compounds the issue: Most stories start by explaining the world and setting and then the characters finally set out to do something. Here since our protagonist is amnesiac we have giant holes in world-building and setting which are very slowly filled as the story moves forward.

[Insomniac]

I feel the need to say...The slashfic writes itself.