Comic for Feb 2nd, 2019: The Dungeons

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Warrl
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Re: Comic for Feb 2nd, 2019: The Dungeons

#46 Post by Warrl »

PanClovek wrote: Sun Feb 03, 2019 12:51 pmPersonally I can relate to Maddie and yeah it really sucks. People here talk about how she shouldn't be feeling bad about her size when her mother is such a big gal, obviously she shouldn't
Shouldn't, I agree. But, given what we've seen of basitin psychology, it would be rather surprising if she didn't.

And here she is, in a situation where measuring up to the standard Mom set would have likely been successful.... and she failed. Ego blow. Plus, where any random basitin would have been evaluated on their own merits, SHE has been evaluated for her entire life by comparison to her mother - and rarely any other standard. (Obviously sometimes a different standard, or she wouldn't be a Lieutenant in Intelligence.)

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Re: Comic for Feb 2nd, 2019: The Dungeons

#47 Post by Ddraig »

You know, leaving aside for the moment Maddie's brittle front finally shattering, There's still the question of why did Rose teleport them to the dungeon?. Maybe it's the only place she can teleport people (because it was only included as a security mechanism), sure, but why would OldTrace have put that limiter on it? (Speaking of which, I'm pretty sure that limit would've been lifted too). There are plenty of other places that would've made more sense to teleport them to - the lobby, their rooms, the infirmary - that I'm seriously questioning why they got teleported to the dungeons. It does make me wonder just how much resentment Rose has built up and if we're about to see her lash out with it now that she isn't held back.

Then there is the question: Assuming that is Rose we saw silhouetted there (Something I doubt, partly due to the hair, partly due to ears), does projection-Rose know what happened to flesh-and-blood-Rose? Are they separate consciousnesses? If they were, are they still? They must have been the same at one point (even if projection-Rose was a 'copy' of flesh-Rose) because projection-Rose has been acting like an older real-Rose the entire time.

back to Maddie: tbh I don't find her sudden switch all that surprising. We already know she really doesn't like being called little, so we know that she caught a lot of flak for that growing up, and in a culture like that of the Basitins, it'd be systemic, not just childhood bullies (esp since she doesn't really have the same protection of being the King's Daughter that she would in any other monarchy). That is not a happy childhood to grow up in, and that tends to result in people forming strong but brittle fronts to hide what they really feel.
Maddie has been holding a (metaphorical) mask for so long that I expect it's practically a part of her. She's been proving that she can handle it, that she is tough enough despite her size, and she got a nice big boost to her how she thought she was doing after fighting Seraphina. Now the day after that success, she gets the [censored] kicked out of her and not only does that tear up the emotional hill she just ascended, but the idea that she can't handle it, that she isn't tough enough, that she can't fight, dug a pit for her to fall into from that hill. Add in the pain and blood she's coughing up (I'm still not entirely convinced by the "I'm a basitin, I'll be fine" bit) and the entire front she's been putting up just shattered like a stained glass window with a giant stone Lizardfolk statue thrown through it. Until she manages to rebuild it (or manages to overcome her prior experiences and go from a ceramic-encased ball of peach-and-strawberry-strength person to a personality/sense-of-self more like an old tree; one that isn't a mask hiding her true feelings, one that bends but doesn't break) she's going to be very vulnerable.


edit: also, the bars on that cage are definitely wide enough that they can just slip out
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Re: Comic for Feb 2nd, 2019: The Dungeons

#48 Post by Hulk10 »

Ddraig wrote: Sun Feb 03, 2019 10:35 pm You know, leaving aside for the moment Maddie's brittle front finally shattering, There's still the question of why did Rose teleport them to the dungeon?. Maybe it's the only place she can teleport people (because it was only included as a security mechanism), sure, but why would OldTrace have put that limiter on it? (Speaking of which, I'm pretty sure that limit would've been lifted too). There are plenty of other places that would've made more sense to teleport them to - the lobby, their rooms, the infirmary - that I'm seriously questioning why they got teleported to the dungeons. It does make me wonder just how much resentment Rose has built up and if we're about to see her lash out with it now that she isn't held back.

Then there is the question: Assuming that is Rose we saw silhouetted there (Something I doubt, partly due to the hair, partly due to ears), does projection-Rose know what happened to flesh-and-blood-Rose? Are they separate consciousnesses? If they were, are they still? They must have been the same at one point (even if projection-Rose was a 'copy' of flesh-Rose) because projection-Rose has been acting like an older real-Rose the entire time.

back to Maddie: tbh I don't find her sudden switch all that surprising. We already know she really doesn't like being called little, so we know that she caught a lot of flak for that growing up, and in a culture like that of the Basitins, it'd be systemic, not just childhood bullies (esp since she doesn't really have the same protection of being the King's Daughter that she would in any other monarchy). That is not a happy childhood to grow up in, and that tends to result in people forming strong but brittle fronts to hide what they really feel.
Maddie has been holding a (metaphorical) mask for so long that I expect it's practically a part of her. She's been proving that she can handle it, that she is tough enough despite her size, and she got a nice big boost to her how she thought she was doing after fighting Seraphina. Now the day after that success, she gets the [censored] kicked out of her and not only does that tear up the emotional hill she just ascended, but the idea that she can't handle it, that she isn't tough enough, that she can't fight, dug a pit for her to fall into from that hill. Add in the pain and blood she's coughing up (I'm still not entirely convinced by the "I'm a basitin, I'll be fine" bit) and the entire front she's been putting up just shattered like a stained glass window with a giant stone Lizardfolk statue thrown through it. Until she manages to rebuild it (or manages to overcome her prior experiences and go from a ceramic-encased ball of peach-and-strawberry-strength person to a personality/sense-of-self more like an old tree; one that isn't a mask hiding her true feelings, one that bends but doesn't break) she's going to be very vulnerable.


edit: also, the bars on that cage are definitely wide enough that they can just slip out
I too doubt its Rose in that secret room. And yeah they could slip out of those bars. But Maddie isn't coughing anymore.
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Re: Comic for Feb 2nd, 2019: The Dungeons

#49 Post by Technic[Bot] »

MuonNeutrino wrote: Sun Feb 03, 2019 4:19 am Well, I wasn't referring specifically to her face, but her appearance as a whole. She's not only shorter than a human, but she's also shorter than other basitin, even Keith who is only two years her senior. She's also very petite and not busty/curvy in the slightest, which of course isn't definitive but is at least suggestive. I did think she was older than 13, but her general appearance led me to think she still wasn't fully physically mature, hence my guessing she might have been 15 or so.

As for Adelaide, my own bet is that the general basitin toughness and vitality are acting to mitigate the usual issues with gigantism, because she's just too frigging enormous for me to believe otherwise, especially given how not-enormous her daughter is. (Also, note that basitins are already shorter than humans, so 2.18m for a basitin is a more extreme variation than 2.18m for a human.)
What i was trying to say is that most of the time the face can give a better idea about the age of an individual but such features would be obscured on Maddie. Also there is a lot of variance in how old people look compared to their real age, I once meet a 15 year old girl who looked 21 and a 19 year old woman that looked 12 whenever she decided not to use make up.
Also related to height I still think there would not be that many problems at her height with or without her Basitins physiology. The problem of being too large is structural, bones and muscles can't carry that much. As a rule of thumb bones and muscle strength grows cuadratically with size but mass grows cubically, that is why giant monsters can't exists. But 2.2 m is not that much in that context: i have a 2 friends around 2 meters tall and both are as healthy as they can get. There is other problem though, pumping the blood, if your limbs are too far from your heart it need to pump harder eventually leading to cardiologic issues, but again she is not "that" tall and if her heart scaled appropriately I imagine she won't have much problems specially if her physiology is more resilient: denser bones and stronger muscles.
Ddraig wrote: Sun Feb 03, 2019 10:35 pm You know, leaving aside for the moment Maddie's brittle front finally shattering, There's still the question of why did Rose teleport them to the dungeon?. Maybe it's the only place she can teleport people (because it was only included as a security mechanism), sure, but why would OldTrace have put that limiter on it? (Speaking of which, I'm pretty sure that limit would've been lifted too). There are plenty of other places that would've made more sense to teleport them to - the lobby, their rooms, the infirmary - that I'm seriously questioning why they got teleported to the dungeons. It does make me wonder just how much resentment Rose has built up and if we're about to see her lash out with it now that she isn't held back.

Then there is the question: Assuming that is Rose we saw silhouetted there (Something I doubt, partly due to the hair, partly due to ears), does projection-Rose know what happened to flesh-and-blood-Rose? Are they separate consciousnesses? If they were, are they still? They must have been the same at one point (even if projection-Rose was a 'copy' of flesh-Rose) because projection-Rose has been acting like an older real-Rose the entire time.

edit: also, the bars on that cage are definitely wide enough that they can just slip out
I am pretty sure it was the first thing on her head, and considered Karen was about to have her brains bashed in by the golem I am sure there was no time to set a more comfortable destination, that was good and safe enough.
And drawing enough bars to prevent them from escaping is too time consuming and would get in the way of the viewer.
MuonNeutrino wrote: Sun Feb 03, 2019 5:16 am On a mostly-unrelated side note, there ought to be someone else down here in the dungeon, apart from the hapless templar-chickens. I wonder if he'll make a cameo?

Also, for some reason Maddie looks cuter than usual to me in this strip. I'd guess it's partially how she's feeling vulnerable - she looks like she needs a hug, even if she probably wouldn't accept it - inspiring protectiveness, but for some reason I just want to boop her nose in the 4th panel. :grin:
Yeah Maddie is usually adorable, but better be carefull with the hugs we do not want to break ,more, her ribs!
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Re: Comic for Feb 2nd, 2019: The Dungeons

#50 Post by Tyger42 »

themunck wrote: Sat Feb 02, 2019 11:10 pm ...Sorry Maddie, but if your species are supposed to age like humans, then 17 is still a kid, or at least certainly not an adult who's finished developing yet. Frankly, getting to a rank where they let you sit in on a tribunal even at that age is astonishing.
Depends on the society. There are real world societies now and in the past that considered 17 an adult. Spartans would have been full warriors well before that, for example. Drop your America-centric pre-conceived notions.

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Re: Comic for Feb 2nd, 2019: The Dungeons

#51 Post by Hulk10 »

Truthfully 17 doesn't mean you are fully mature biologically. Yes its true that Spartans were considered men at 15 or 16. And if the Basitin society is like the Spartans then Maddie is considered an adult. But being considered an adult doesn't mean you biologically are an adult. She is old enough to be considered an adult by others of her kind but she is still not yet fully developed. Humans aren't fully developed until they reach their 20's so Maddie is still not yet physically mature. Mentally she is due to her upbringing. But physically no.
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Re: Comic for Feb 2nd, 2019: The Dungeons

#52 Post by Murphy »

The leftmost guy among the "old goats" looks suspicious.

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Re: Comic for Feb 2nd, 2019: The Dungeons

#53 Post by Tyger42 »

Hulk10 wrote: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:00 am Truthfully 17 doesn't mean you are fully mature biologically. Yes its true that Spartans were considered men at 15 or 16. And if the Basitin society is like the Spartans then Maddie is considered an adult. But being considered an adult doesn't mean you biologically are an adult. She is old enough to be considered an adult by others of her kind but she is still not yet fully developed. Humans aren't fully developed until they reach their 20's so Maddie is still not yet physically mature. Mentally she is due to her upbringing. But physically no.
If we're talking physical maturity, by 17, the major growth spurt is coming to an end for most people. Not quite over yet, but it's clear she's not going to come anywhere close to her mom's size. That's where her concern lies, I believe.

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Re: Comic for Feb 2nd, 2019: The Dungeons

#54 Post by amenon »

Ddraig wrote: Sun Feb 03, 2019 10:35 pm You know, leaving aside for the moment Maddie's brittle front finally shattering, There's still the question of why did Rose teleport them to the dungeon?. Maybe it's the only place she can teleport people (because it was only included as a security mechanism), sure, but why would OldTrace have put that limiter on it? (Speaking of which, I'm pretty sure that limit would've been lifted too). There are plenty of other places that would've made more sense to teleport them to - the lobby, their rooms, the infirmary - that I'm seriously questioning why they got teleported to the dungeons. It does make me wonder just how much resentment Rose has built up and if we're about to see her lash out with it now that she isn't held back.
They were somewhere they weren't supposed to be. It did make me initially raise my eyebrows, too, but isn't it a pretty fine place to put them just on those grounds alone? Presumably Rose would be able to tell that Maddie isn't seriously injured. (Assuming she cares.)

Murphy wrote: Mon Feb 04, 2019 9:55 am The leftmost guy among the "old goats" looks suspicious.
By implication that would be a previous Master General...

... or maybe not, since this can't be the generals when Maddie was born. Keith's father (or at least somebody other than Musclehead) would have been Arms. And Maddie (if she is in fact 17 :P) would have been 11 or so when Cornelius died, so certainly she'd remember him.

I guess it's still probably the previous Master General, but I can't really figure out why Maddie would come up with these three in particular. Cornelius definitely had more Old Goat Energy than the apparently rather affable Musclehead.

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Re: Comic for Feb 2nd, 2019: The Dungeons

#55 Post by detrius »

Honestly, I believe the only reason why Maddie thinks she's small is because her mother is freakishly large for a basitin.

How did that happen anyway? Did Adelaide fall into a cooking pot full of ent-drought when she was a cub?

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Re: Comic for Feb 2nd, 2019: The Dungeons

#56 Post by GaySailors »

amenon wrote: Sun Feb 03, 2019 7:06 am Aster (Alabaster's son) almost for sure. He's the new Master General by implication, so by basitin logic almost certainly the next in line, and he's just the most basitin basitin to ever basitin. In contrast to everyone else in their leadership, King Adelaide included, he actually Does As He's Supposed To.

Should he come to power, stable and boring shall be his reign.
Just as Basitins like it... unless you happen to have an affinity for wolves or something. :keith: :natani:

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Re: Comic for Feb 2nd, 2019: The Dungeons

#57 Post by Technic[Bot] »

amenon wrote: Mon Feb 04, 2019 3:16 pm
They were somewhere they weren't supposed to be. It did make me initially raise my eyebrows, too, but isn't it a pretty fine place to put them just on those grounds alone? Presumably Rose would be able to tell that Maddie isn't seriously injured. (Assuming she cares.)
She did mention : "... if you really care about the lives of others..." in a rather worried tone so i am gonna assume yes she cares, even if only because they are her evil overlord boss guests. As I mentioned probably fastest or most accessible place in that particular moment. But now that you mention is highly likely she knows Maddie saw something, since it is on everyone best interest Traces never hears about it I wonder if she will try to "silence" maddie

Also:
amenon wrote: Sun Feb 03, 2019 7:06 am Aster (Alabaster's son) almost for sure. He's the new Master General by implication, so by basitin logic almost certainly the next in line, and he's just the most basitin basitin to ever basitin. In contrast to everyone else in their leadership, King Adelaide included, he actually Does As He's Supposed To.

Should he come to power, stable and boring shall be his reign.
Regarding the Basitin hierachy lack of foresight regarding Maddie and her up-bringing. I always imagined Basitins had very strict anti-nepotism laws hence Maddie benefited little from her mother's title. But then How did Aster got where he ended? Granted At that point half of the hierarchy was dead and in disarray but at that point but still it seems a bit fishy... Also we know Basitin law is far from perfect and full of loopholes, Keith "friend", his name eludes my memory, managed to get him into an important position of power despite being a) An exile b) At that point a traitor.
Also "an army marches over it stomach" there are several positions that are vital for an army to operate yet do not see combat, I imagine Maddie would excel at any of those, from tactician, to logistics or intelligence.
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Re: Comic for Feb 2nd, 2019: The Dungeons

#58 Post by Warrl »

Ddraig wrote: Sun Feb 03, 2019 10:35 pm You know, leaving aside for the moment Maddie's brittle front finally shattering, There's still the question of why did Rose teleport them to the dungeon?. Maybe it's the only place she can teleport people (because it was only included as a security mechanism), sure, but why would OldTrace have put that limiter on it? (Speaking of which, I'm pretty sure that limit would've been lifted too). There are plenty of other places that would've made more sense to teleport them to - the lobby, their rooms, the infirmary - that I'm seriously questioning why they got teleported to the dungeons.
Because Rose did not do the teleport - she only activated a preset spell, and that's where the spell was set to take things.

Same with the Templar at the front door, except there it was actually the Templar that activated it by entering without Trace's permission.

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Re: Comic for Feb 2nd, 2019: The Dungeons

#59 Post by Hulk10 »

Tyger42 wrote: Mon Feb 04, 2019 3:03 pm
Hulk10 wrote: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:00 am Truthfully 17 doesn't mean you are fully mature biologically. Yes its true that Spartans were considered men at 15 or 16. And if the Basitin society is like the Spartans then Maddie is considered an adult. But being considered an adult doesn't mean you biologically are an adult. She is old enough to be considered an adult by others of her kind but she is still not yet fully developed. Humans aren't fully developed until they reach their 20's so Maddie is still not yet physically mature. Mentally she is due to her upbringing. But physically no.
If we're talking physical maturity, by 17, the major growth spurt is coming to an end for most people. Not quite over yet, but it's clear she's not going to come anywhere close to her mom's size. That's where her concern lies, I believe.
Yeah I agree. I was simply stating that she wasn't quite finished developing.
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Re: Comic for Feb 2nd, 2019: The Dungeons

#60 Post by Murphy »

amenon wrote: Mon Feb 04, 2019 3:16 pm
Murphy wrote: Mon Feb 04, 2019 9:55 am The leftmost guy among the "old goats" looks suspicious.
By implication that would be a previous Master General...
I dunno, the visual cue of him chewing on a stalk gives me a deja vu (can't figure it out).

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