Comic for Feb 2nd, 2019: The Dungeons

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CrRAR
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Re: Comic for Feb 2nd, 2019: The Dungeons

#31 Post by CrRAR »

Technic[Bot] wrote: Sun Feb 03, 2019 3:33 am May I add something?
Maddie wrote:... And the old goats were right ...
I have always pictured basitins as they were some weird cougar/rabbit biological experiment gonna terrible wrong mixup. Add some more cat in the mix to taste, but never I i just can't see any "goat" in the design,and it may be just be me, reading too much into it or it is just a common insult back in maddie's homeland. But still the comment threw me off my feet...
Pero bueno eso significa que si salen unas birrias...
It’s the billy-goat chin goatee.

ALL the old goats are doing it! :P

Also, if anyone deserves to be called a goat it’s Alabastar.
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Re: Comic for Feb 2nd, 2019: The Dungeons

#32 Post by steelabjur »

themunck wrote: Sat Feb 02, 2019 11:10 pm ...Sorry Maddie, but if your species are supposed to age like humans, then 17 is still a kid, or at least certainly not an adult who's finished developing yet. Frankly, getting to a rank where they let you sit in on a tribunal even at that age is astonishing.

But oh well, I guess it's just Twokinds showing its roots again. It's always been somewhat anime/manga inspired, and the common tropes there certainly are 15 = kid, 18 = full adult, 22 = midlife crisis and 30+ = old, with 50+ = grandparent half the size of the 15-year-old and who's seen everything.
in England in the 12th century the legal age for marriage was 12 for girls and 14 for boys. Given the medieval setting of TK, she could very well be considered an adult, and that doesn't even take into consideration Basitin culture (whose militaristic nature would certainly encourage early enrollment into the army) and the connections being the daughter of the king provide.

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Re: Comic for Feb 2nd, 2019: The Dungeons

#33 Post by GaySailors »

Honestly, I'm not surprised about the age thing. She's said before (or at least someone said it about her) that she uses her young appearance to deceive people, which I took as her not actually being young.

The only reason I bring the age up is because if she's 17, and her mother was double her size at her age, than she might not be eligible for the crown. We've learned that the Government isn't a monarchism of some kind, so while she still might be favored for being the daughter of the King, she would still have to earn the title. Based on what Basitins value in leadership, she doesn't stand much of a chance at this rate. I would say that Alaric or the "Meathead" General would stand the best chance, but for some reason I don't see that happening.

This begs a question: who would be next? Adelaide might very well be King for the entire comic, but if she isn't, than who would be? Alabaster's son? My boy Keith?

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Re: Comic for Feb 2nd, 2019: The Dungeons

#34 Post by Eclipse »

GaySailors wrote: Sun Feb 03, 2019 4:43 am Honestly, I'm not surprised about the age thing. She's said before (or at least someone said it about her) that she uses her young appearance to deceive people, which I took as her not actually being young.

The only reason I bring the age up is because if she's 17, and her mother was double her size at her age, than she might not be eligible for the crown. We've learned that the Government isn't a monarchism of some kind, so while she still might be favored for being the daughter of the King, she would still have to earn the title. Based on what Basitins value in leadership, she doesn't stand much of a chance at this rate. I would say that Alaric or the "Meathead" General would stand the best chance, but for some reason I don't see that happening.

This begs a question: who would be next? Adelaide might very well be King for the entire comic, but if she isn't, than who would be? Alabaster's son? My boy Keith?
Alaric wouldn't be King, he's too busy being dead.

Keith though, I could see him becoming King, but probably not until the end of the comic. If he's King, he won't really be able to travel with the rest of the gang, so it'd be difficult to keep him in the story.

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Re: Comic for Feb 2nd, 2019: The Dungeons

#35 Post by MuonNeutrino »

On a mostly-unrelated side note, there ought to be someone else down here in the dungeon, apart from the hapless templar-chickens. I wonder if he'll make a cameo?

Also, for some reason Maddie looks cuter than usual to me in this strip. I'd guess it's partially how she's feeling vulnerable - she looks like she needs a hug, even if she probably wouldn't accept it - inspiring protectiveness, but for some reason I just want to boop her nose in the 4th panel. :grin:
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Re: Comic for Feb 2nd, 2019: The Dungeons

#36 Post by Shockwave07 »

You know I doubt Keith could have handled the stone lizard either...

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Re: Comic for Feb 2nd, 2019: The Dungeons

#37 Post by Neptune »

I honestly think that it would be really interesting if Maddie seemed to be fine after she got hit, but her punctured lung then caused her to slowly die from internal bleeding. I mean, it would cause outrage but he should really just do it at this point. Would give the comic some bottom.
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Re: Comic for Feb 2nd, 2019: The Dungeons

#38 Post by amenon »

And I had it at

1) Her stated age
or
2) Thirty

... so she got me twice :P

SirJahar wrote: Sat Feb 02, 2019 10:54 pm While I'll grant that Maddie has been kinda obsessed about her supposed detriments compared to her mother since the morning, it still seems bizarre that she's been on this "I'm an adult" charade since they got to port. Before then, she was content to appear however someone saw here as long as it played even vaguely to her benefit, usually involving getting people to give her a pass or at least underestimating her.
And I will still call back to the time I made a list of all the different heights Maddie has had since her introduction, making anything we are told feel, well, cheap.
I think what you might be missing here is Karen. I don't think Maddie generally minds being seen as a kid, but Karen -- who Maddie sees as being below her level -- treating Maddie as being below her level has been steadily getting under her skin.

tony1695 wrote: Sun Feb 03, 2019 1:42 am
themunck wrote: Sat Feb 02, 2019 11:10 pm ...Sorry Maddie, but if your species are supposed to age like humans, then 17 is still a kid, or at least certainly not an adult who's finished developing yet. Frankly, getting to a rank where they let you sit in on a tribunal even at that age is astonishing.
You're basing your assumption on our society. We don't know how Basitin society works in this regard. Enlistment (or conscription) could begin at 12, or even younger. Weapons training might start even younger yet, given a (likely non-canon) piece where Keith was gifted a spear at a young age.
AndreRhineDavis covered the basitin military angle, but in addition, human adulthood in TK is 16.

Combak wrote: Sun Feb 03, 2019 3:13 am BTW, we’ve seen an “older” version of Maddie in some of the sketches. Assuming Maddie isn’t lying, she will never become that person... I think. So, what should we call this Maddie who isn’t Maddie? Madelynn?

Oh, and for the Maeve and Maddie shippers: Their ages work out in about three years.
Hmm... now you've got me thinking. Have we actually ever seen other people for scale in those sketches? What if it's that Maeve just turns out to be shorter than everyone expects? :grin:

Edit: Though! Maddie's last line on this page 'My mother was twice my size at my age' seems to me to imply that her mother wasn't yet fully grown, so maybe Maddie isn't either.

CrRAR wrote: Sun Feb 03, 2019 4:34 am
Technic[Bot] wrote: Sun Feb 03, 2019 3:33 am May I add something?
Maddie wrote:... And the old goats were right ...
I have always pictured basitins as they were some weird cougar/rabbit biological experiment gonna terrible wrong mixup. Add some more cat in the mix to taste, but never I i just can't see any "goat" in the design,and it may be just be me, reading too much into it or it is just a common insult back in maddie's homeland. But still the comment threw me off my feet...
Pero bueno eso significa que si salen unas birrias...
It’s the billy-goat chin goatee.

ALL the old goats are doing it! :P
As Tom(?) once put it on IRC: 49% cat, 49% rabbit, 2% goat (chin-tuft)

Context might have been this page, where Natani said Keith looks like a goat :grin:

CrRAR wrote: Sun Feb 03, 2019 4:34 am Also, if anyone deserves to be called a goat it’s Alabastar.
Kathrin's got you covered.

GaySailors wrote: Sun Feb 03, 2019 4:43 am This begs a question: who would be next? Adelaide might very well be King for the entire comic, but if she isn't, than who would be? Alabaster's son? My boy Keith?
Aster (Alabaster's son) almost for sure. He's the new Master General by implication, so by basitin logic almost certainly the next in line, and he's just the most basitin basitin to ever basitin. In contrast to everyone else in their leadership, King Adelaide included, he actually Does As He's Supposed To.

Should he come to power, stable and boring shall be his reign.
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Re: Comic for Feb 2nd, 2019: The Dungeons

#39 Post by Panther »

The old goats are dumb peoples (and alabastard a criminal) ; don't listen them , Maddie : you're not Adelaide but yourself :Maddie:
Man is a wolf for man ........ Don't insult the wolves :natani:

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Re: Comic for Feb 2nd, 2019: The Dungeons

#40 Post by steelabjur »

Eclipse wrote: Sun Feb 03, 2019 3:27 am
SirJahar wrote: Sun Feb 03, 2019 2:29 am Yet in that same scene we saw him NOT kill her, despite said orders. And if the orders addiction is so strong, why didn't she go into withdraw sooner? Or are you going to say she was still riding the high of meeting Keith?
That was explained, Western Basitins aren't biological compelled to follow orders and Keith's mother was Western.

I'm actually wondering if Maddie is also half-Western. If anything she seems to be even more rebellious than Keith. Would explain why her father doesn't seem to be in the picture, you can only imagine how huge a scandal it would be to the Basitins if that got out.
Adelaide seems to play rather fast and loose with the rules herself, from what little we've seen of her personality in the comic. Maybe some Western blood runs through the top brass of the Basitin Empire?

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Re: Comic for Feb 2nd, 2019: The Dungeons

#41 Post by BadJoke »

Oh my god... I have to say it i'm in utter love with this page. How long is it been since we had such emotion? Such sense of dread? Of injustice? Of maturity? Not since the basitin island for sure. Strange how basitins always better the story every time they come in focus... :grin:

Because since then,yeah we got drama, and some good one (keith and Natani building a real relationship, Flora and Trace been remembered that beyond their love the world is still in a bad bind...) but nothing like that. It was (almost) always separated from the world-building or the stakes. Or was far too sugary to give any sense of urgency (the entire adventure of group B...).

Here we've got not only a deeper view into a character who was until now nothing more than a comic relief / ditzy kid, view that doesn't contradict the rest of what we know of her but also establishes clearly some stuff barely mentioned until now, some being really dark, like a reminder that, yes, that world is not all sexy people and charming romances:

- yes she lied concerning her age, establishing for good that she falsely accused Eric of being a pedophile: a dirty move who didn't help her on the long run

- yes being overspecialized in stealth WILL be a problem when you're in a situation out of this domain

- yes Trace had a dungeon where keidrans died, say hello to the skull in the background (okay this one was clear from the beginning)

- basitins are a proud warrior race, very cool... except that lead to eugenist practices, with a literal discrimination of those judged "unfit" (and even racist... remember Keith, judged "biologically tainted"); and even more unhealthy as you think about it: "maybe next time" sounds an awful lot like "hurry up to lay another baby, we're getting short on cannon fodder, and choose someone physically worthy this time". Must be quite the pleasure to grow into such an environment (sarcasm)... also, theory: it's possible they pressured Adelaide to force her into mating more in the hopes she'd have more "super basitins" like her; but it fell short because she was in such a position of power it was impossible to impose anything to her.

- and once intruders are turned into animals by Trace's estate Rose locks them up into the dungeon to break their mind and reduce them to easily controllable live stock.... :shock:

Now little silly hypothesis: Karen notices the scared little chicken and adopts it. And now team A has its own pet, a poor templar forced to "play" with Mrs. Nibbly. :P
Criminals are less dangerous than virtuous people: they kill less.

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Re: Comic for Feb 2nd, 2019: The Dungeons

#42 Post by PanClovek »

^up
Good thinking with that eugenics thing, I wouldn't be suprised at all if that was the truth. The chicken thing, good lord, NO !!! :grin:
IHeartMaeve wrote: Sun Feb 03, 2019 1:41 am Not to ramble on about myself for the sake of explanation or anything, but I lately seem to have some sort of ability to relate emotionally to fictional characters, even if I have had no life experiences that would enable me to do so. (Half-joking tone follows) Maybe one could call it “Reality-Proof Empathic Capacity.” (Back to normal tone) Or maybe Tom is just that good a writer, or maybe it’s both; I don’t know!
It means you are able to put yourself in someone's shoes ^^ Personally I can relate to Maddie and yeah it really sucks. People here talk about how she shouldn't be feeling bad about her size when her mother is such a big gal, obviously she shouldn't but I look at it in a different way; Tom could of easily made her problems appear more serious ( rather than size make it about smarts, quick thinking, leadership, strategic abilities, hard work etc. ) but I can see why he wouldn't want to do that, such deep problems wouldn't fit into the nature of the webcomic ( in his mind, that is ) ... that or Tom plain mishandled it lol.

Also in my opinion that problem she has justifies her weird actions, why would she be getting into all of those bad situations like getting on that boat, messing with people, wandering around etc. ? She wants get into a fight and prove herself, solve some problems and show that she's just as tough as her mom.

If I could tell Maddie one thing I'd tell her it's rather Adelaides fault she raised her that way, if we really need someone to blame... Which makes me wonder about Maddie's childhood, was she just raised by nannies all day ? I imagine Adelaide wouldn't have that much time to spend with her, ( what happened to her father anyway ) ? Maybe the reason her mom is strong is because her parents were rough on her, made her train all day, eat a lot forced her into competitions and she didn't want to be that way to Maddie and tried to be the opposite of her bad parents by being the nicest mom she could be ? Not too far fetched for origins type story right ?

My theory for what will happen next: Maddie will be irrationally angry at Rose for stopping the fight and thus taking away her opportunity to defeat the statue and prove how cool she is or something like that.

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Re: Comic for Feb 2nd, 2019: The Dungeons

#43 Post by Dadrobit »

SirJahar wrote: Sun Feb 03, 2019 1:50 am
Dadrobit wrote: Sun Feb 03, 2019 1:19 am *unpublished side comic snip*
Ok, so stuff nobody would know about, and can, and some would argue SHOULD, be disregarded due to its unpublished status. And all this is STILL at-odds with her characterization prior to landfall.
Not exactly. What I've mentioned about it here is nothing that was solely discussed in private, only what Tom was willing to be talking about publicly. This particular conversation took place around a year ago.
Spoiler!
Image
And as others have said prior to this, she hasn't just suddenly switched personalities out of the blue. Firstly, her demeanor could have been largely a front to her true identity as an aspect of her profession as a infiltrator/spy, so it's viable that at least some decent part of that was simply just a ruse. And secondly this swap to melancholy Maddie is absolutely fair considering how much her pride just took a hit. She likely had minimal truly honest self-esteem for herself beforehand with the major players of the Basitin hierarchy literally calling her a "waste" and holding out on hope for a still yet unborn next child over giving Maddie a chance.

The way she was beaten wasn't just just a straw that broke the Basitin's back, it was the whole damned bale of hay. I'l give her a pass personally on this.
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Re: Comic for Feb 2nd, 2019: The Dungeons

#44 Post by Introbulus »

I went and re-activated my old forum account specifically to say this:

The Bastians are incredibly short-sighted if they're all disappointed in Maddie.

Their King gives birth to a Bastian with an absolutely brilliant mind, and they squander it by only focusing on how strong or how big she is.

"Wise as a dragon" indeed. >:V
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Re: Comic for Feb 2nd, 2019: The Dungeons

#45 Post by Eclipse »

steelabjur wrote: Sun Feb 03, 2019 12:34 pm
Eclipse wrote: Sun Feb 03, 2019 3:27 am That was explained, Western Basitins aren't biological compelled to follow orders and Keith's mother was Western.

I'm actually wondering if Maddie is also half-Western. If anything she seems to be even more rebellious than Keith. Would explain why her father doesn't seem to be in the picture, you can only imagine how huge a scandal it would be to the Basitins if that got out.
Adelaide seems to play rather fast and loose with the rules herself, from what little we've seen of her personality in the comic. Maybe some Western blood runs through the top brass of the Basitin Empire?
Eh, I'm not as sure about that. Adelaide doesn't seem to be blatantly disobedient (and really, how can she be? She's top dog, who can she disobey?), she just seems to exploit loopholes like Alaric. There's a difference between exploiting loopholes and disobedience.
BadJoke wrote: Sun Feb 03, 2019 12:42 pm basitins are a proud warrior race, very cool... except that lead to eugenist practices, with a literal discrimination of those judged "unfit" (and even racist... remember Keith, judged "biologically tainted"); and even more unhealthy as you think about it: "maybe next time" sounds an awful lot like "hurry up to lay another baby, we're getting short on cannon fodder, and choose someone physically worthy this time". Must be quite the pleasure to grow into such an environment (sarcasm)... also, theory: it's possible they pressured Adelaide to force her into mating more in the hopes she'd have more "super basitins" like her; but it fell short because she was in such a position of power it was impossible to impose anything to her.
Good theory. Adelaide is seen as the idealized version of a Basitin by her people, so they'd definitely want more like her. And yeah, I can't imagine Adelaide being too happy with that suggestion, she probably doesn't want to be treated as glorified livestock or anything (man, that would be getting into some REALLY messed up territory there. inb4 r34).
Introbulus wrote: Sun Feb 03, 2019 3:34 pm I went and re-activated my old forum account specifically to say this:

The Bastians are incredibly short-sighted if they're all disappointed in Maddie.

Their King gives birth to a Bastian with an absolutely brilliant mind, and they squander it by only focusing on how strong or how big she is.

"Wise as a dragon" indeed. >:V
Welcome to Mekkan. None of the societies are exactly open minded or progressive at this point in their history.

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