Comic for January 17th, 2019: Between a Rock and a Lizard Place

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Re: Comic for January 17th, 2019: Between a Rock and a Lizard Place

#31 Post by Technic[Bot] »

Yeah Maddie no joke, you could have a perforated lung, some ruptured organs, or maybe you just bit your tongue...
Anyhow I am calling it now:
After some fighting Maddie manages to deactivate the Golem. Trace and Rose to come and find the young Basitin passing out on a pool of blood, since there is no doctor around and going back to town is not a good idea there is not much more
option than to get inside Trace's evil lab to patch the poor rabbit/cougar together. As she is not dead, there is no need to use the dark arts. But now Traces knows there is a secret lab in his mansion and unlike his boring old tower this room is way more dangerous.
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Re: Comic for January 17th, 2019: Between a Rock and a Lizard Place

#32 Post by Neptune »

[ahem]






Maddie [censored] DIES
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Re: Comic for January 17th, 2019: Between a Rock and a Lizard Place

#33 Post by Tetrahedron »

Well, I have not written anything here for a longer time, but this discussion caught my interest.

Well, some people here have the opinion, that something bigger should happen to one of the characters. Heavy injury or even death.
To be honest, I almost agree with them. I am more than OK with a happy, peaceful story. I even enjoy this. For bad news I watch TV.
But this leads to my dilemma. Yes, consequences are needed sometimes. But I often have the feeling that hard consequences in TK are most of the time show. They don't feel real. So in my opinion better don't do them. I like stories even without this "action part". It is a strange comparison, but often I find "diplomacy" stories or movies more interesting than pure action.
And so I have the feeling, that TK relates way to little on this, because the setting is already very good and interesting. The rest is sometimes a little bit artifical.

Edit: I hope you understand, what I mean. And I like my profile picture. It fits perfectly in the moment.

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Re: Comic for January 17th, 2019: Between a Rock and a Lizard Place

#34 Post by Dadrobit »

Tetrahedron wrote: Mon Jan 21, 2019 10:44 pm But I often have the feeling that hard consequences in TK are most of the time show.
^This ^

For a while now I've used the comparison that TK is much like the A-Team for almost the last decade. Lots of action, gunfights, and explosions galore, but at the end of the day nobody ever dies. Even if a truck goes over the side of a cliff and explodes, they follow that up with a scene of the passengers crawling out. And it doesn't matter how deep in Hannibal, Murdock, BA, or Face's antics get them in "serious" trouble, because there's always a way out. TK does much the same.

Example: Seraphina gets potentially vorpaled in twain, but then nope, turns out it was just a scratch and an unfortunate wardrobe malfunction.

The Wolf assassin was smashed by a dragon so hard that even the follow through of the swipe destroyed a stone city wall. But don't worry, he's not dead, just unconscious. Reni made sure of it.

Nibbs is smashed against a tree in such a manner that she absolutely should be de-... Wait no, she's just fine.

Carver gets disinti-... Nope, he gets the ladies. At least the speculation of his death was killed on the same page it was initiated? :mrgrin:

The worst consequence we've seen in recent years is Zen's singed leg, and I'm not convinced that it will result in anything more than a limp and maybe even his character returning to the background like he has been for 95% of his existence in the comic.

I think it was amenon who once made the assertion, (and I certainly agree on this point) that the disconnect between content and tone in this comic is rather dramatic. Things like institutionalized slavery and kangaroo court public executions are a reality of the world of Mekkan, but the audience A) doesn't get to see much of it carried out, and B) largely doesn't really care because, "awww lookit that cute tiger girl galumphing over onto the protagonist! Cutest comic ever!" I think that the disconnect between shown violence and consequences of the violence is just a sort of continuation of this.
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Re: Comic for January 17th, 2019: Between a Rock and a Lizard Place

#35 Post by Technic[Bot] »

Dadrobit wrote: Mon Jan 21, 2019 11:54 pm
Tetrahedron wrote: Mon Jan 21, 2019 10:44 pm But I often have the feeling that hard consequences in TK are most of the time show.
^This ^

For a while now I've used the comparison that TK is much like the A-Team for almost the last decade. Lots of action, gunfights, and explosions galore, but at the end of the day nobody ever dies. Even if a truck goes over the side of a cliff and explodes, they follow that up with a scene of the passengers crawling out. And it doesn't matter how deep in Hannibal, Murdock, BA, or Face's antics get them in "serious" trouble, because there's always a way out. TK does much the same.

Example: Seraphina gets potentially vorpaled in twain, but then nope, turns out it was just a scratch and an unfortunate wardrobe malfunction.

The Wolf assassin was smashed by a dragon so hard that even the follow through of the swipe destroyed a stone city wall. But don't worry, he's not dead, just unconscious. Reni made sure of it.

Nibbs is smashed against a tree in such a manner that she absolutely should be de-... Wait no, she's just fine.

Carver gets disinti-... Nope, he gets the ladies. At least the speculation of his death was killed on the same page it was initiated? :mrgrin:

The worst consequence we've seen in recent years is Zen's singed leg, and I'm not convinced that it will result in anything more than a limp and maybe even his character returning to the background like he has been for 95% of his existence in the comic.

I think it was amenon who once made the assertion, (and I certainly agree on this point) that the disconnect between content and tone in this comic is rather dramatic. Things like institutionalized slavery and kangaroo court public executions are a reality of the world of Mekkan, but the audience A) doesn't get to see much of it carried out, and B) largely doesn't really care because, "awww lookit that cute tiger girl galumphing over onto the protagonist! Cutest comic ever!" I think that the disconnect between shown violence and consequences of the violence is just a sort of continuation of this.
You know everyone quotes Nibbly non death as the point Twom decided to not kill anyone else. But i am not so sure. Honestly i think is was just a way to hint that Nibbly is no ordinary squirrel, granted it was a Ham fisted way of doing it but effective not less. I doubt Tom ever intended to kill her on the first place, had she been designed to be a normal squirrel from the get-go Carver would have simply tossed her aside and not smashed her into the tree line. Thought just for comparison i once meet a squirrel with half his leg missing and was casually climbing the trees.
Then there is the second instance of "Naaaah everyone is ok!" Zen's leg. And the most egregious to me. That shackle was presumably made of steel and it was shown as a red hot and beginning to melt. Steel melting point depends on the specifics of the alloy but it is around 1500 °C. So not only it would have ate straight through Zen's leg but he would have been set alight and burned to dead consuming all oxygen inside the force field in the process killing everyone inside...
And that brings me to my other point "rating" for lack of a better word. No not like page views but like PG-13 and such. Sure the comic has deaths and is more "suggestive" than a lot of other media i know but nobody has been burned alive ,that we know of. That little scene i describe would have made the comic R-rated in an instant.
And that scene with Seraphina? Well having her being turned into a lizard shish-kebab by one of the main characters no less would have a similar effect. Besides we still do not know why she attacked Keith and death women rarely talk.
And despite all i said i have to agree with you. Personally i think Tom never intended this world to have such a tone, i think he was going for a more fantasy-adventure romantic-comedy vibe at first, sure a few dark and serious moments here and there like ephemural posession but nothing that dark. Alas over those first years of drawing the comic he inadvertedly made Mekkan a much worse place than he intended to be, after all the protagonist was basically a much more effective version of Hitler a few months ago.
But even thought I agree with Amenon's assertion I have to respect Tom for sticking with his guns instead of retconing his own work.
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Re: Comic for January 17th, 2019: Between a Rock and a Lizard Place

#36 Post by Dadrobit »

Technic[Bot] wrote: Sun Jan 27, 2019 2:52 am
You know everyone quotes Nibbly non death as the point Twom decided to not kill anyone else. But i am not so sure. Honestly i think is was just a way to hint that Nibbly is no ordinary squirrel, granted it was a Ham fisted way of doing it but effective not less. I doubt Tom ever intended to kill her on the first place, had she been designed to be a normal squirrel from the get-go Carver would have simply tossed her aside and not smashed her into the tree line. Thought just for comparison i once meet a squirrel with half his leg missing and was casually climbing the trees.

I've always held that Nibbly is something of a red herring. Everyone cites her maybe above average intelligence as evidence that she's special up to and including speculation that she's a dragon. But honestly, she's not all ~that~ bright. She's in and around the intelligence, and has the mannerisms of a puppy, but I think that's just to give her a non-zero amount of a personality and reason to exist with the party.

The scene of her resurrection (in my opinion) was not so much a hint to the power of Nibbly, but a hint to the power of Raine. I think it was Raine who managed to exhibit powers unbeknownst to her and the audience which healed Nibbly and will become a revelation at a later date somehow to give a point of reference to her abilities. The last panel where Raine is somewhat stupefied at Nibbly's recovery while maintaining her faintly glowing eyes really sells an inference of author duplicity for me.

Technic[Bot] wrote: Sun Jan 27, 2019 2:52 amThen there is the second instance of "Naaaah everyone is ok!" Zen's leg. And the most egregious to me.
I don't have a screenshot of the quote, but Tom mentioned in Picarto chat in and around the time of the Carver scenes that due to the magical nature of the interactions going on with the shackle, it was not the same kind of melting metal due to regular heat and that the melting point of the metal was drastically reduced by said magics.

Of course, good luck to anyone not in chat at the exact moment of that quote for figuring that out. Unfortunately it's just one of a hundred and more quotes and bits of world building that Tom has stated in chats and forums that are completely lost to the average reader...
Technic[Bot] wrote: Sun Jan 27, 2019 2:52 amBut even thought I agree with Amenon's assertion I have to respect Tom for sticking with his guns instead of retconing his own work.
*pushes up glasses* Well Ackshually....

There have been a number of retcons in recent years which have gone towards making the comic less dark and suggestive. These include moments from Sythe explaining that Trace had killed hundred of thousands of keidran being dropped to only hundreds, and the intelligence general no longer murdering his subordinate, to the removal of Kat's extraordinarily suggestive pink crotch and Keith openly specifying his "intentions" with Natani while she was in heat instead of leaving his "I wonder if she'd be mad if I tried to... Erg, no... I can't think that way!" open to interpretation. And many many more! (One of my favorites is that Flora used to be royalty, but that was after a retcon that changed her from being a slave in the company of a rich dragonrider named Vincent Galhand. :mrgrin: )

But there are still of course moments of serious brutality like Trace straight up murdering a bunch of children and the musclehead general actually just being exploded. S'why I specified the tone of the comic as of the last almost ten irl years. Ever since the boat ride home Tom has been trying to make the comic more tame resulting in the A-Team effect as some things just can't be retconned so easily while Tom still insists on violence being a major driving force in the comic, even if it no longer results in any real danger. Which is kind of too bad really. Personally it gives me a vibe of "style over substance" in these scenarios since at this point any threat of danger can almost just be shrugged off.

**EDIT**

Oh, and I figured Seraphina was a pretty self contained mini-arc. She gave a bit of world building with the Dragon cult, and she attacked them because she knew they had a wolf with them, (which really helped impose the seriousness of the anti-canine sentiment of the town) and because she's a "hot" headed dragon wannabe lady alongside the wannabe guard and the wannabe Templar Mage. But as far as she's concerned towards the overall story, there's not much left to go on outside of maybe slapstick shenanigans with her troupe of imposters. And I don't think we really need any more of that do we?
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Re: Comic for January 17th, 2019: Between a Rock and a Lizard Place

#37 Post by Technic[Bot] »

Dadrobit wrote: Sun Jan 27, 2019 4:54 am
I've always held that Nibbly is something of a red herring. Everyone cites her maybe above average intelligence as evidence that she's special up to and including speculation that she's a dragon. But honestly, she's not all ~that~ bright. She's in and around the intelligence, and has the mannerisms of a puppy, but I think that's just to give her a non-zero amount of a personality and reason to exist with the party.

The scene of her resurrection (in my opinion) was not so much a hint to the power of Nibbly, but a hint to the power of Raine. I think it was Raine who managed to exhibit powers unbeknownst to her and the audience which healed Nibbly and will become a revelation at a later date somehow to give a point of reference to her abilities. The last panel where Raine is somewhat stupefied at Nibbly's recovery while maintaining her faintly glowing eyes really sells an inference of author duplicity for me.
Not entirely sold on your theory but i do have to say it is an interesting possibility. It has been hinted that Raine is extremely powerfull and had she been properly trained in all things magical™ she could give old Trace a run for his money.
Dadrobit wrote: Sun Jan 27, 2019 4:54 am
I don't have a screenshot of the quote, but Tom mentioned in Picarto chat in and around the time of the Carver scenes that due to the magical nature of the interactions going on with the shackle, it was not the same kind of melting metal due to regular heat and that the melting point of the metal was drastically reduced by said magics.

Of course, good luck to anyone not in chat at the exact moment of that quote for figuring that out. Unfortunately it's just one of a hundred and more quotes and bits of world building that Tom has stated in chats and forums that are completely lost to the average reader...
If that is the case he could have used electrical sparks: Such bolts would cause severe second degree burns in the area and the overall shock would greatly damage the person, without the "OMG I am on burning". I assume Tom simply thought it looked cool and then he realized the implications...
Dadrobit wrote: Sun Jan 27, 2019 4:54 am
*pushes up glasses* Well Ackshually....

There have been a number of retcons in recent years which have gone towards making the comic less dark and suggestive. These include moments from Sythe explaining that Trace had killed hundred of thousands of keidran being dropped to only hundreds, and the intelligence general no longer murdering his subordinate, to the removal of Kat's extraordinarily suggestive pink crotch and Keith openly specifying his "intentions" with Natani while she was in heat instead of leaving his "I wonder if she'd be mad if I tried to... Erg, no... I can't think that way!" open to interpretation. And many many more! (One of my favorites is that Flora used to be royalty, but that was after a retcon that changed her from being a slave in the company of a rich dragonrider named Vincent Galhand. :mrgrin: )

But there are still of course moments of serious brutality like Trace straight up murdering a bunch of children and the musclehead general actually just being exploded. S'why I specified the tone of the comic as of the last almost ten irl years. Ever since the boat ride home Tom has been trying to make the comic more tame resulting in the A-Team effect as some things just can't be retconned so easily while Tom still insists on violence being a major driving force in the comic, even if it no longer results in any real danger. Which is kind of too bad really. Personally it gives me a vibe of "style over substance" in these scenarios since at this point any threat of danger can almost just be shrugged off.

Well you have been around since 2008 (according to your profile) and I have only been here for barely a year, that kind of long term dependencies are lost to me. Personally i think Tom is still going for a lighter tone overall but that does not mean we won't see more deaths in the comic. Maybe again Tom is herding us into a false sense of security and when we least expect it someone will die. Honestly i doubt the whole party will survive the whole comic but I assume those deaths are/will be thoroughly planned, he does not usually does sad sketches but when he does , Well suffice to say i am surprised by his thematic range but he is not the kind of author to kill another character every 2 encounters.

Also pink What?! Thankfully he changed that, had I seen that i would have simply regarded the comic as Smut and stopped reading altogether...
Dadrobit wrote: Sun Jan 27, 2019 4:54 am Oh, and I figured Seraphina was a pretty self contained mini-arc. She gave a bit of world building with the Dragon cult, and she attacked them because she knew they had a wolf with them, (which really helped impose the seriousness of the anti-canine sentiment of the town) and because she's a "hot" headed dragon wannabe lady alongside the wannabe guard and the wannabe Templar Mage. But as far as she's concerned towards the overall story, there's not much left to go on outside of maybe slapstick shenanigans with her troupe of imposters. And I don't think we really need any more of that do we?
Well both the fake guard and the fake Templar were shown "spying" into the manor at some point so I am pretty sure we will see them again. Team rocket style!
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Re: Comic for January 17th, 2019: Between a Rock and a Lizard Place

#38 Post by amenon »

Dadrobit wrote: Mon Jan 21, 2019 11:54 pm
Tetrahedron wrote: Mon Jan 21, 2019 10:44 pm But I often have the feeling that hard consequences in TK are most of the time show.
^This ^

For a while now I've used the comparison that TK is much like the A-Team for almost the last decade. Lots of action, gunfights, and explosions galore, but at the end of the day nobody ever dies. Even if a truck goes over the side of a cliff and explodes, they follow that up with a scene of the passengers crawling out. And it doesn't matter how deep in Hannibal, Murdock, BA, or Face's antics get them in "serious" trouble, because there's always a way out. TK does much the same.
I think this is a misguided view. Sure it's been ten years or whatever in realtime, but for the characters, it's been barely any time at all. If you had lost people in your life a month ago, would you feel like you were living in some halcyon period of puppies and rainbows? (Or indeed A-Team, which... is basically the same thing :grin:) If more kept dropping, how well could you cope?

And if people kept dying in the comic, how long before either the heaviness of it dragged the entire story down, or a continued cheerfulness took on a kind of sociopathic, demented tone?

I do expect there to still be one or more major character deaths in Twokinds... but when the narrative is ripe for it, not just for shock value or to play to the edgy contingent. And the narrative doesn't run in realtime, or even by page count.

Dadrobit wrote: Mon Jan 21, 2019 11:54 pm I think it was amenon who once made the assertion, (and I certainly agree on this point) that the disconnect between content and tone in this comic is rather dramatic. Things like institutionalized slavery and kangaroo court public executions are a reality of the world of Mekkan, but the audience A) doesn't get to see much of it carried out, and B) largely doesn't really care because, "awww lookit that cute tiger girl galumphing over onto the protagonist! Cutest comic ever!" I think that the disconnect between shown violence and consequences of the violence is just a sort of continuation of this.
I can't quite decide if I'd say the two things are unrelated, or deeply related. Because I think the violence is just the combat running on anime physics, like it always has... but then, it could certainly be argued that there's also something anime-ish about the content/tone divide.

But yeah, the thing I always point to is Alaric and Keith breaking a stone bridge during their swordfight. Fights in Twokinds have meaning in the general way they play out (Alaric holding back gave Keith an opening; the basitins worked together to defeat Seraphina), but the specifics are all rule of cool.

Technic[Bot] wrote: Sun Jan 27, 2019 2:52 am And that scene with Seraphina? Well having her being turned into a lizard shish-kebab by one of the main characters no less would have a similar effect. Besides we still do not know why she attacked Keith and death women rarely talk.
And Keith would have her blood on his hands. It would have been a fair fight and all, but he is one regret-prone basitin, and he has some preeeetty unhappy memories of killing people as is. So I for one I'm glad he didn't need to deal with that, in addition to everything else. He's been wobbly enough without that weight on him.

(Come to think of it, this current brouhaha with Maddie is probably going to be Less Than Restful for Keith, too, depending on how it plays out from his perspective. The story occasionally seems damn-near calibrated to keep him at the breaking point.)

Dadrobit wrote: Sun Jan 27, 2019 4:54 am (One of my favorites is that Flora used to be royalty, but that was after a retcon that changed her from being a slave in the company of a rich dragonrider named Vincent Galhand. :mrgrin: )
Oh, come on. You can't count pre-canon things as retcons :P

Technic[Bot] wrote: Mon Jan 28, 2019 3:20 am Also pink What?! Thankfully he changed that, had I seen that i would have simply regarded the comic as Smut and stopped reading altogether...
Hey, what's wrong with smut >:3

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Re: Comic for January 17th, 2019: Between a Rock and a Lizard Place

#39 Post by Hulk10 »

amenon wrote: Sun Feb 03, 2019 4:18 pm
Dadrobit wrote: Mon Jan 21, 2019 11:54 pm
Tetrahedron wrote: Mon Jan 21, 2019 10:44 pm But I often have the feeling that hard consequences in TK are most of the time show.
^This ^

For a while now I've used the comparison that TK is much like the A-Team for almost the last decade. Lots of action, gunfights, and explosions galore, but at the end of the day nobody ever dies. Even if a truck goes over the side of a cliff and explodes, they follow that up with a scene of the passengers crawling out. And it doesn't matter how deep in Hannibal, Murdock, BA, or Face's antics get them in "serious" trouble, because there's always a way out. TK does much the same.
I think this is a misguided view. Sure it's been ten years or whatever in realtime, but for the characters, it's been barely any time at all. If you had lost people in your life a month ago, would you feel like you were living in some halcyon period of puppies and rainbows? (Or indeed A-Team, which... is basically the same thing :grin:) If more kept dropping, how well could you cope?

And if people kept dying in the comic, how long before either the heaviness of it dragged the entire story down, or a continued cheerfulness took on a kind of sociopathic, demented tone?

I do expect there to still be one or more major character deaths in Twokinds... but when the narrative is ripe for it, not just for shock value or to play to the edgy contingent. And the narrative doesn't run in realtime, or even by page count.

Dadrobit wrote: Mon Jan 21, 2019 11:54 pm I think it was amenon who once made the assertion, (and I certainly agree on this point) that the disconnect between content and tone in this comic is rather dramatic. Things like institutionalized slavery and kangaroo court public executions are a reality of the world of Mekkan, but the audience A) doesn't get to see much of it carried out, and B) largely doesn't really care because, "awww lookit that cute tiger girl galumphing over onto the protagonist! Cutest comic ever!" I think that the disconnect between shown violence and consequences of the violence is just a sort of continuation of this.
I can't quite decide if I'd say the two things are unrelated, or deeply related. Because I think the violence is just the combat running on anime physics, like it always has... but then, it could certainly be argued that there's also something anime-ish about the content/tone divide.

But yeah, the thing I always point to is Alaric and Keith breaking a stone bridge during their swordfight. Fights in Twokinds have meaning in the general way they play out (Alaric holding back gave Keith an opening; the basitins worked together to defeat Seraphina), but the specifics are all rule of cool.

Technic[Bot] wrote: Sun Jan 27, 2019 2:52 am And that scene with Seraphina? Well having her being turned into a lizard shish-kebab by one of the main characters no less would have a similar effect. Besides we still do not know why she attacked Keith and death women rarely talk.
And Keith would have her blood on his hands. It would have been a fair fight and all, but he is one regret-prone basitin, and he has some preeeetty unhappy memories of killing people as is. So I for one I'm glad he didn't need to deal with that, in addition to everything else. He's been wobbly enough without that weight on him.

(Come to think of it, this current brouhaha with Maddie is probably going to be Less Than Restful for Keith, too, depending on how it plays out from his perspective. The story occasionally seems damn-near calibrated to keep him at the breaking point.)

Dadrobit wrote: Sun Jan 27, 2019 4:54 am (One of my favorites is that Flora used to be royalty, but that was after a retcon that changed her from being a slave in the company of a rich dragonrider named Vincent Galhand. :mrgrin: )
Oh, come on. You can't count pre-canon things as retcons :P

Technic[Bot] wrote: Mon Jan 28, 2019 3:20 am Also pink What?! Thankfully he changed that, had I seen that i would have simply regarded the comic as Smut and stopped reading altogether...
Hey, what's wrong with smut >:3

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Re: Comic for January 17th, 2019: Between a Rock and a Lizard Place

#40 Post by Technic[Bot] »

Oh Hi Mr Amenon!
amenon wrote: Sun Feb 03, 2019 4:18 pm I think this is a misguided view. Sure it's been ten years or whatever in realtime, but for the characters, it's been barely any time at all. If you had lost people in your life a month ago, would you feel like you were living in some halcyon period of puppies and rainbows? (Or indeed A-Team, which... is basically the same thing :grin:) If more kept dropping, how well could you cope?

And if people kept dying in the comic, how long before either the heaviness of it dragged the entire story down, or a continued cheerfulness took on a kind of sociopathic, demented tone?

I do expect there to still be one or more major character deaths in Twokinds... but when the narrative is ripe for it, not just for shock value or to play to the edgy contingent. And the narrative doesn't run in realtime, or even by page count.
↑↑↑↑↑↑ This ↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑
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amenon wrote: Sun Feb 03, 2019 4:18 pm
Hey, what's wrong with smut >:3

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Oh Sorry no offense to you or your work intended. One thing I like about Twokinds it is that is by no means prudish, yeah we know some off the cast is doing the horizontal tango off screen, but it is never explicitly or overly in your face. That would have simply threw me off my feet and made me question my interest on the comic.
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Re: Comic for January 17th, 2019: Between a Rock and a Lizard Place

#41 Post by amenon »

Technic[Bot] wrote: Mon Feb 04, 2019 4:15 am Oh Sorry no offense to you or your work intended.
No worries, I'm just marketing. Like always :grin:

For the record, this is what Dadrobit was talking about -- contrast with the current version. (Yes, I would characterize that as 'approximately nothing.')

But my own personal favorite is Keith's Towel Boner, which actually got inadvertently restored back into canon. (Panel 5:) old / now-and-originally-as-far-as-the-towel-itself-is-concerned.

(The accompanying thread is probably my favorite instance of The Twokinds Fandom being The Twokinds Fandom, and I can only laugh when I imagine how Tom must have felt when it was going down. And it even contains bonus young avwolf obsessing over Keith's hips :grin:)

((Oh, and it generated this poll as well!))
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Re: Comic for January 17th, 2019: Between a Rock and a Lizard Place

#42 Post by Technic[Bot] »

amenon wrote: Mon Feb 04, 2019 3:39 pm No worries, I'm just marketing. Like always :grin:

For the record, this is what Dadrobit was talking about -- contrast with the current version. (Yes, I would characterize that as 'approximately nothing.')

But my own personal favorite is Keith's Towel Boner, which actually got inadvertently restored back into canon. (Panel 5:) old / now-and-originally-as-far-as-the-towel-itself-is-concerned.

(The accompanying thread is probably my favorite instance of The Twokinds Fandom being The Twokinds Fandom, and I can only laugh when I imagine how Tom must have felt when it was going down. And it even contains bonus young avwolf obsessing over Keith's hips :grin:)

((Oh, and it generated this poll as well!))
I probably would have never even noticed that have not know it was there. But once you see it you can't unsee it... Y sí ya me dio cosa
On the other hand It does seems you had a lot of fun back in the day. Also when you said:
Mr Amenon wrote: ...is probably my favorite instance of The Twokinds Fandom being The Twokinds Fandom...
The little statistician inside me perked its ears and poke its head out. Sorry for the request but could you elaborate on what you mean by "being" the TK fandom?
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Re: Comic for January 17th, 2019: Between a Rock and a Lizard Place

#43 Post by Hulk10 »

Dadrobit wrote: Sun Jan 27, 2019 4:54 am
Technic[Bot] wrote: Sun Jan 27, 2019 2:52 am
You know everyone quotes Nibbly non death as the point Twom decided to not kill anyone else. But i am not so sure. Honestly i think is was just a way to hint that Nibbly is no ordinary squirrel, granted it was a Ham fisted way of doing it but effective not less. I doubt Tom ever intended to kill her on the first place, had she been designed to be a normal squirrel from the get-go Carver would have simply tossed her aside and not smashed her into the tree line. Thought just for comparison i once meet a squirrel with half his leg missing and was casually climbing the trees.

I've always held that Nibbly is something of a red herring. Everyone cites her maybe above average intelligence as evidence that she's special up to and including speculation that she's a dragon. But honestly, she's not all ~that~ bright. She's in and around the intelligence, and has the mannerisms of a puppy, but I think that's just to give her a non-zero amount of a personality and reason to exist with the party.

The scene of her resurrection (in my opinion) was not so much a hint to the power of Nibbly, but a hint to the power of Raine. I think it was Raine who managed to exhibit powers unbeknownst to her and the audience which healed Nibbly and will become a revelation at a later date somehow to give a point of reference to her abilities. The last panel where Raine is somewhat stupefied at Nibbly's recovery while maintaining her faintly glowing eyes really sells an inference of author duplicity for me.

Technic[Bot] wrote: Sun Jan 27, 2019 2:52 amThen there is the second instance of "Naaaah everyone is ok!" Zen's leg. And the most egregious to me.
I don't have a screenshot of the quote, but Tom mentioned in Picarto chat in and around the time of the Carver scenes that due to the magical nature of the interactions going on with the shackle, it was not the same kind of melting metal due to regular heat and that the melting point of the metal was drastically reduced by said magics.

Of course, good luck to anyone not in chat at the exact moment of that quote for figuring that out. Unfortunately it's just one of a hundred and more quotes and bits of world building that Tom has stated in chats and forums that are completely lost to the average reader...
Technic[Bot] wrote: Sun Jan 27, 2019 2:52 amBut even thought I agree with Amenon's assertion I have to respect Tom for sticking with his guns instead of retconing his own work.
*pushes up glasses* Well Ackshually....

There have been a number of retcons in recent years which have gone towards making the comic less dark and suggestive. These include moments from Sythe explaining that Trace had killed hundred of thousands of keidran being dropped to only hundreds, and the intelligence general no longer murdering his subordinate, to the removal of Kat's extraordinarily suggestive pink crotch and Keith openly specifying his "intentions" with Natani while she was in heat instead of leaving his "I wonder if she'd be mad if I tried to... Erg, no... I can't think that way!" open to interpretation. And many many more! (One of my favorites is that Flora used to be royalty, but that was after a retcon that changed her from being a slave in the company of a rich dragonrider named Vincent Galhand. :mrgrin: )

But there are still of course moments of serious brutality like Trace straight up murdering a bunch of children and the musclehead general actually just being exploded. S'why I specified the tone of the comic as of the last almost ten irl years. Ever since the boat ride home Tom has been trying to make the comic more tame resulting in the A-Team effect as some things just can't be retconned so easily while Tom still insists on violence being a major driving force in the comic, even if it no longer results in any real danger. Which is kind of too bad really. Personally it gives me a vibe of "style over substance" in these scenarios since at this point any threat of danger can almost just be shrugged off.

**EDIT**

Oh, and I figured Seraphina was a pretty self contained mini-arc. She gave a bit of world building with the Dragon cult, and she attacked them because she knew they had a wolf with them, (which really helped impose the seriousness of the anti-canine sentiment of the town) and because she's a "hot" headed dragon wannabe lady alongside the wannabe guard and the wannabe Templar Mage. But as far as she's concerned towards the overall story, there's not much left to go on outside of maybe slapstick shenanigans with her troupe of imposters. And I don't think we really need any more of that do we?
Your link to prove your point about Kathryn doesn't show a suggestive pink crotch. And as for Mrs. Nibbly, yeah she ain't all that smart as she got too close to Sythe's mouth. That was a funny moment. lol.
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Re: Comic for January 17th, 2019: Between a Rock and a Lizard Place

#44 Post by aitaituo »

Technic[Bot] wrote: Tue Feb 05, 2019 1:43 am The little statistician inside me perked its ears and poke its head out. Sorry for the request but could you elaborate on what you mean by "being" the TK fandom?
Request denied. Your punishment is incarceration in the perv box until you read the entirety of the panel shuffle thread.

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Re: Comic for January 17th, 2019: Between a Rock and a Lizard Place

#45 Post by Ddraig »

Hulk10 wrote: Tue Feb 05, 2019 2:15 am[Dadrobit quote]

Your link to prove your point about Kathryn doesn't show a suggestive pink crotch. And as for Mrs. Nibbly, yeah she ain't all that smart as she got too close to Sythe's mouth. That was a funny moment. lol.
Amenon was kind enough to link the original version:
amenon wrote: Mon Feb 04, 2019 3:39 pm No worries, I'm just marketing. Like always :grin:

For the record, this is what Dadrobit was talking about -- contrast with the current version. (Yes, I would characterize that as 'approximately nothing.')
"Light thinks it travels faster than anything, but it's wrong. No matter how fast light travels, it always finds that darkness has gotten there first, and is waiting for it."

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