Comic for 2018-07-28: Assassin Siblings, Catching Up, Pt 2

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Comic for 2018-07-28: Assassin Siblings, Catching Up, Pt 2

#1 Post by Tetrahedron »

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Re: Comic for 2018-07-28: Assassin Siblings, Catching Up, Pt 2

#2 Post by BadFoMo »

Natani wrote:What does it matter to them whether or not I have breasts?
I think people tend to look at others differently when they find out the other person was (at their core [if that makes any sense]) something/someone completely different. I mean, how would you react if you found out that Maddie was actually King Adelaide’s son?


Also, it's nice to see that Zen is willingly not going through his sisters thoughts.
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Re: Comic for 2018-07-28: Assassin Siblings, Catching Up, Pt 2

#3 Post by Rafe »

To Natani's comments about Mike and Evals behaving differently - They did seem to be somewhat upset about not knowing the real story (or even believing Natani's new story).
Evals was, after all, still wondering if the "Poor sexy [censored]" might just have talked himself into it after pretending so long.

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Re: Comic for 2018-07-28: Assassin Siblings, Catching Up, Pt 2

#4 Post by Thallium »

It's easy to forget sometimes that things that happened a long time ago for us (Natani's secret coming out) happened pretty recently for the comic characters. That was my first thought when reading this page at least and I guess it translates over to the comic as a whole. How much time has passed since Trace woke up in the forest? A year? Less? Yet us as readers have known these characters for borderline 15 years at this point.

I don't think they'll be too much fallout coming Natani's way from this reveal; after all they are travelling together with an ex magical warlord, an accused parricide and a guy who appreciates keidran a little too much. What's a gender confused wolf on top of that? Besides, I think people know Natani well enough by this point that any weirdness will be gone in a couple of days and then it will be back to business as usual.

Also, Blondie is a great name for Eric, we should all call him that from now on.
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Re: Comic for 2018-07-28: Assassin Siblings, Catching Up, Pt 2

#5 Post by CrRAR »

Happy Birthday Tom!!! Lovely page. Natani obviously dealing with some internal struggles and the the world's view of him out-loud in the presence of, quite honestly, the only person he probably ever would at this point. The sibling bond is strong with these two and Zen is the only to know him intimately before and after their incident. On this particular topic at least. with Keith that even took some liquid courage to get silly about it. Haha.

There's a tinge of resentment toward that last panel, Zen might hop in with some words of encouragement!

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Re: Comic for 2018-07-28: Assassin Siblings, Catching Up, Pt 2

#6 Post by aitaituo »

BadFoMo wrote: Sat Jul 28, 2018 12:11 pm
Natani wrote:What does it matter to them whether or not I have breasts?
I think people tend to look at others differently when they find out the other person was (at their core [if that makes any sense]) something/someone completely different. I mean, how would you react if you found out that Maddie was actually King Adelaide’s son?

Also, it's nice to see that Zen is willingly not going through his sisters thoughts.
How is the cast going to react when they realize Maddie is King Adelaide's daughter? Lynn might know, but no one else seems to. Most don't even know that the Basitin monarchy is non-hereditary.

Did anyone else think Natani's question there was uncharacteristically naive? It's not like she's been isolated enough to be unaware that people treat different sexes differently and treat potential romantic partners differently. She wasn't locked up like Raine was. Natani is very aware that she treats Keith differently than she treats Kat. Even if Natani has completely missed Kat's signals, Natani is still very aware that Kat and Keith are the only two people she has any kind of emotional intimacy with besides Zen.

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Re: Comic for 2018-07-28: Assassin Siblings, Catching Up, Pt 2

#7 Post by amenon »

Thallium wrote: Sat Jul 28, 2018 1:11 pm How much time has passed since Trace woke up in the forest? A year? Less?
The count is at something like two months and a week, but in reality it's probably a month or two more with some time missing somewhere. From spring to turn of winter.

CrRAR wrote: Sat Jul 28, 2018 2:13 pm The sibling bond is strong with these two and Zen is the only to know him intimately before and after their incident.
He certainly didn't know her intimately before, and apparently cases can be made that he somehow failed to know him intimately after, despite being literally in his head :P (leastwise, the cases people are making for Zen being a good brother all seem to me to rest on him being clueless about Natani's mental state to a degree that seems quite unlikely to me what with the link)

aitaituo wrote: Sat Jul 28, 2018 6:18 pm Did anyone else think Natani's question there was uncharacteristically naive? It's not like she's been isolated enough to be unaware that people treat different sexes differently and treat potential romantic partners differently.
It's largely rhetorical. He's sad and frustrated that he's lost control of how people see him, to results that are both predictable and disappointing.

I do see what you mean by naive, though. It's like one of those questions asked by children that makes adults uncomfortable because there really is no good enough answer.

I doubt Zen is going to answer that, but I am curious to see if the conversation flows directly off of that comment.

Edit: Forgot to say -- the one thing on this page that stands out to me as odd is Natani in panel 5. It's weird to me that something like that would have changed, and he wouldn't have noticed. But then, the link is... challenging to try to intuit anything about at the best of times, and perhaps Natani has been avoiding delving into it. (Heck, maybe all that the change is is a manifestation of Natani unconsciously not wanting to deal with all this stuff with Zen?)
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Re: Comic for 2018-07-28: Assassin Siblings, Catching Up, Pt 2

#8 Post by Rafe »

amenon wrote: Sat Jul 28, 2018 9:18 pm Edit: Forgot to say -- the one thing on this page that stands out to me as odd is Natani in panel 5. It's weird to me that something like that would have changed, and he wouldn't have noticed. But then, the link is... challenging to try to intuit anything about at the best of times, and perhaps Natani has been avoiding delving into it. (Heck, maybe all that the change is is a manifestation of Natani unconsciously not wanting to deal with all this stuff with Zen?)
Thing is, things have changed. The link was broken for a significant amount of time when Zen was wearing the magic suppressing shackle, and at the same point, the shock sends Natani into unconsciousness and into contact with her past self. Since then, her concept of herself as a separate being has seemed to be stronger. She was, after all, able to regain consciousness and save Kat in the process on her own.

Everything points to Natani, to some degree anyway, being able to rely on her own mind and identity more now, and she seems to like it, or at least is not afraid of relying on herself to a much greater degree than she was.

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Re: Comic for 2018-07-28: Assassin Siblings, Catching Up, Pt 2

#9 Post by Eclipse »

No one knows Natani. Boobs just have that effect on people I guess.

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Re: Comic for 2018-07-28: Assassin Siblings, Catching Up, Pt 2

#10 Post by Technic[Bot] »

Uh a new page, with the whole comic con thing i would thought it would be another week before anything new came out.
Natani wrote: Yeaaah. Pretty much. Well, actually, I’m not sure if Stripes or her human actually saw it, but…
While they’re both a little dense, even if they didn’t notice my scent that day I’m sure word has spread.
Oh come on, i know he is supposed to be brash and all that but "Stripes" is the only reason she is in this place right now and not torn to pieces in some human town. Both Trace and her future Basitin "its complicated" had the good sense to simply leave him behind.
Would have been an interesting alternate scenario though, Zen instead of being a subpar/incompetent assassin would be dead set mission to avenge his fallen brother and then maybe Lau... Nah i am just rambling now...
Besides we have been like 13 pages without Flora, i was starting to forget this come was (mostly) about her...
amenon wrote: Sat Jul 28, 2018 9:18 pm He certainly didn't know her intimately before, and apparently cases can be made that he somehow failed to know him intimately after, despite being literally in his head :P (leastwise, the cases people are making for Zen being a good brother all seem to me to rest on him being clueless about Natani's mental state to a degree that seems quite unlikely to me what with the link)
It is always hard to get THAT close to your family. Even parents have a hard time connecting with their children despite having known them their whole life: Sure they thing their son is quiet and shy but he runs a fight club for money after school, that was just an example by the way.
Besides I do not think he was a good brother by any means, just that he has tried his best given the crap hand in life they were both dealt with. And besides despite his several shortcomings he and his brother are both alive, reasonably healthy, given their jobs, and sane enough...
Also: I have no brothers myself but as far as I know you little bro/sis will always be your little bro/sis that you care and protect no matter if he turns out to be taller, stronger and smarter than you.
amenon wrote: Sat Jul 28, 2018 9:18 pm Edit: Forgot to say -- the one thing on this page that stands out to me as odd is Natani in panel 5. It's weird to me that something like that would have changed, and he wouldn't have noticed. But then, the link is... challenging to try to intuit anything about at the best of times, and perhaps Natani has been avoiding delving into it. (Heck, maybe all that the change is is a manifestation of Natani unconsciously not wanting to deal with all this stuff with Zen?)
The link is implied to be largely experimental. So instead of the run of the mill magic D&D spell which is crystal clear in what it does, this is much more like: "Supposed to patch one mind with another, stress in the supposed part. Sideeffects are unknown and interactions with other spells are even more unknown" I think Tom wrote it this way so it can be a "flexible" spell/plot-device he can shape in the way it serves the story best.
So we now see that Natani has grown enough to not depend physically on her bro's soul to stay sentient to say the least and probably the other wont die if one of them kicks the bucket a bit too early.

On a last note: Who is this Blondie she is talking about last time i checked....
Thallium wrote: Sat Jul 28, 2018 1:11 pm Also, Blondie is a great name for Eric, we should all call him that from now on.
Oh i get it now... Indeed great nickname!
Eclipse wrote: Sun Jul 29, 2018 1:47 am No one knows Natani. Boobs just have that effect on people I guess.
Wish i had a better response but: Yeah pretty much. Even the mythbusters discussed back in the day
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Re: Comic for 2018-07-28: Assassin Siblings, Catching Up, Pt 2

#11 Post by AmigaDragon »

Thallium wrote: Sat Jul 28, 2018 1:11 pmI don't think they'll be too much fallout coming Natani's way from this reveal; after all they are travelling together with an ex magical warlord, an accused parricide and a guy who appreciates keidran a little too much. What's a gender confused wolf on top of that? Besides, I think people know Natani well enough by this point that any weirdness will be gone in a couple of days and then it will be back to business as usual.
Not this group. They've already seen some of her capabilities and don't seem to have the anti-female bias attributed to wolf society. And while group B has only heard about Zen's "brother", a quick explanation can clear things up with most of them too (not sure yet about Sythe, though he has been traveling with mostly females for a while now, one a powerful--though untrained--magic user). The only serious negative fallout from her secret would be if the wolves' assassins guild find out (which Clovis could probably instigate if so desired, or Carver if he ever escapes the basitins and finds his way back).
Rafe wrote: Sat Jul 28, 2018 10:51 pmThing is, things have changed. The link was broken for a significant amount of time when Zen was wearing the magic suppressing shackle, and at the same point, the shock sends Natani into unconsciousness and into contact with her past self. Since then, her concept of herself as a separate being has seemed to be stronger. She was, after all, able to regain consciousness and save Kat in the process on her own.

Everything points to Natani, to some degree anyway, being able to rely on her own mind and identity more now, and she seems to like it, or at least is not afraid of relying on herself to a much greater degree than she was.
It didn't break the link, it just blocked/suppressed it to a fairly high (though not complete) degree. While unconscious she could supposedly see him (through a barrier), and later they got some broken communications through when the magic pool (and Zen's fiddling?) was disrupting it.
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Re: Comic for 2018-07-28: Assassin Siblings, Catching Up, Pt 2

#12 Post by Tyger42 »

Thallium wrote: Sat Jul 28, 2018 1:11 pmWhat's a gender confused wolf on top of that?
I'm going to nitpick terminology here. I know you didn't mean anything negative by it... But there's no confusion about it. At least on Natani's part. He's a he. Just happens to have a female body. And some of the talking with his "old self" indicates that he was likely always that way deep down.

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Re: Comic for 2018-07-28: Assassin Siblings, Catching Up, Pt 2

#13 Post by Hulk10 »

Tyger42 wrote: Sun Jul 29, 2018 11:13 pm
Thallium wrote: Sat Jul 28, 2018 1:11 pmWhat's a gender confused wolf on top of that?
I'm going to nitpick terminology here. I know you didn't mean anything negative by it... But there's no confusion about it. At least on Natani's part. He's a he. Just happens to have a female body. And some of the talking with his "old self" indicates that he was likely always that way deep down.
Natani may be a 'he' mentally now, but they were born female.
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Re: Comic for 2018-07-28: Assassin Siblings, Catching Up, Pt 2

#14 Post by Ran-san »

Tyger42 wrote: Sun Jul 29, 2018 11:13 pm
Thallium wrote: Sat Jul 28, 2018 1:11 pmWhat's a gender confused wolf on top of that?
I'm going to nitpick terminology here. I know you didn't mean anything negative by it... But there's no confusion about it. At least on Natani's part. He's a he. Just happens to have a female body. And some of the talking with his "old self" indicates that he was likely always that way deep down.
Actually, I'm not too sure. Pre-coma Natani definitely self identified as male. Post-coma Natani may be more Gender Fluid, though. Male in some situations, female in others. Definitely more female around Keith.

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Re: Comic for 2018-07-28: Assassin Siblings, Catching Up, Pt 2

#15 Post by amenon »

Technic[Bot] wrote: Sun Jul 29, 2018 3:18 am Oh come on, i know he is supposed to be brash and all that but "Stripes" is the only reason she is in this place right now and not torn to pieces in some human town. Both Trace and her future Basitin "its complicated" had the good sense to simply leave him behind.
Not using people's names is just a part of how Natani keeps his distance from others. It's why it mattered when he called Kat Kathrin instead of Spots.

Technic[Bot] wrote: Sun Jul 29, 2018 3:18 am Besides we have been like 13 pages without Flora, i was starting to forget this come was (mostly) about her...
I don't think it's ever been mostly about Flora. Trace was pretty clearly the main protagonist early on, and then it spiraled from there.

Technic[Bot] wrote: Sun Jul 29, 2018 3:18 am It is always hard to get THAT close to your family. Even parents have a hard time connecting with their children despite having known them their whole life: Sure they thing their son is quiet and shy but he runs a fight club for money after school, that was just an example by the way.
Oh, for sure. I mostly give Zen [censored] when it comes to youngtani because of how critically off-base he was. And the narrative has been waiting some seven of their years to drop the other shoe on it, so there's a certain... height from which it's coming.

It was his desire to protect her that did this, and that's pretty much a perfect tragedy for all involved.

As for current Natani, I don't think any normal intuitions about sibling or familial relationships can apply because of the link. Especially the early times, but even this page reinforces that Zen going through Natani's memories is still the normal state of things (which, of course, we've seen on occasion in the comic.) It is unthinkable to me that he wouldn't understand Natani as completely as anyone has ever understood another person, which makes his giving Natani [censored] about any shred of femininity he shows -- which is the very source of his trauma -- that Zen caused -- just... whoo-ee.

Technic[Bot] wrote: Sun Jul 29, 2018 3:18 am Also: I have no brothers myself but as far as I know you little bro/sis will always be your little bro/sis that you care and protect no matter if he turns out to be taller, stronger and smarter than you.
My own aspirational position is that perhaps at some point we should all come face to face with people as they are, rather than as they once were in relation to our adolescent egos, lest we forever leave the other side picking up the slack for us in maintaining the relationship :P


Technic[Bot] wrote: Sun Jul 29, 2018 3:18 am The link is implied to be largely experimental. So instead of the run of the mill magic D&D spell which is crystal clear in what it does, this is much more like: "Supposed to patch one mind with another, stress in the supposed part. Sideeffects are unknown and interactions with other spells are even more unknown" I think Tom wrote it this way so it can be a "flexible" spell/plot-device he can shape in the way it serves the story best.
Yup. It was just unexpected to me that this -- Zen not being able to read him willy-nilly -- is something Natani would not have grasped without being told.

AmigaDragon wrote: Sun Jul 29, 2018 6:41 am (not sure yet about Sythe, though he has been traveling with mostly females for a while now, one a powerful--though untrained--magic user).
Sythe is easy to be sure about. (Or well, at least easy to reasonably suppose about.)

AmigaDragon wrote: Sun Jul 29, 2018 6:41 amThe only serious negative fallout from her secret would be if the wolves' assassins guild find out (which Clovis could probably instigate if so desired, or Carver if he ever escapes the basitins and finds his way back).
I think the subtext with the Carver scene was that they definitely can't count on Clovis et al. keeping the secret anymore. And the implication of that would be that the reason Clovis didn't move against them earlier is that Clovis thought they knew something damaging about him, and the implication of that is that... you get the idea :P

But yeah, either way, the secret is now sufficiently out that they would not ever be able to return and assume there was no way word would reach the wolves. And they really would not want that to happen when they're actually themselves physically there. So they can't go back, not that they probably have any intention to.

Observation: Zen has not as of yet mentioned anything to Natani about Carver/Clovis threatening them.
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