TwoKinds [of] data
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Re: TwoKinds [of] data
You made a chart showing who talks the most.
I was wondering if you could do one that shows the correlation between then the character is present in the scene and how much they say. For example, Raine isn't going to be talking very much pre-basitin isle arc.
I was wondering if you could do one that shows the correlation between then the character is present in the scene and how much they say. For example, Raine isn't going to be talking very much pre-basitin isle arc.
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Re: TwoKinds [of] data
Sure pal:backonninja wrote: ↑Fri Sep 14, 2018 4:33 am You made a chart showing who talks the most.
I was wondering if you could do one that shows the correlation between then the character is present in the scene and how much they say. For example, Raine isn't going to be talking very much pre-basitin isle arc.
Talking Score
Spoiler!
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Re: TwoKinds [of] data
So a new year and thus more interesting data to analyse!
So for starters I decided to do something a bit simpler some stuff that is been on my backlog for a couple months now:
The timeline and the comic's Popularity:
A kind Timeline
Well that was fun whats is next?
So, how popular is this thing?
So after all that I hope you all have fun or learned something new at least. I am meaning to post more interesting stuff here over the course of the year but it will take some time.
Until then See ya!
So for starters I decided to do something a bit simpler some stuff that is been on my backlog for a couple months now:
The timeline and the comic's Popularity:
A kind Timeline
Spoiler!
So, how popular is this thing?
Spoiler!
Until then See ya!
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Re: TwoKinds [of] data
That timeline... I might have to look into vampirism as a solution to the longevity problem.
If the universe is infinite, does that mean that there is a version of me out there who's thinking the exact same thing?
While we're on the topic of alternate universes, is there one where I'm a lawyer? If yes, then I may be more evil than I thought.
While we're on the topic of alternate universes, is there one where I'm a lawyer? If yes, then I may be more evil than I thought.
Re: TwoKinds [of] data
I appreciate what you did with the popularity graphs, I'd definitely love to see other popular webcomic creators and their respective followings represented alongside it in the future. Tom looks good compared to the folks you've compared him to who are all more or less within their own same circle. I agree it would be unfair to pit them against content creators creating completely different content and media formats like Markiplier and/or Jim [censored] Sterling, but you can put them up against a following the likes of Jeph Jacques of Questionable Content at almost 7k patreons and 80k Twitter followers, and it does put Tom's pond into perspective.
(Interesting to note that QC and TK started only a month separated from one another)
As an aside, I'm always a little surprised seeing John Joseco so low at under 1k followers. HoS is up there for one of my favorites
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Re: TwoKinds [of] data
What does that mean? The only interspecies couple in the entire world that can actually produce fertile offspring would be Trace and Flora.
Haha, he's so tiny! Where is he going?
Re: TwoKinds [of] data
We have no reason to believe that is the case. It doesn't even make much sense considering what Ephemural said - it's kind of rough hanging the existence of a race on ONE child that hadn't even been conceived yet. Particularly since the child would likely be ostracized by both parent races. And if Ephemural can change the rules enough to allow the one couple to create a hybrid, why not allow ANY couple of the same races to do so? That would make things a lot easier and more sure...
Meanwhile... we know that keidran culture and biology allow for teenager-equivalents to be a lot more sexually active than is typical of human cultures; that human teenagers often have contact with keidran teenager-equivalents; that it's generally known that keidran/human hybrids aren't possible, which means that teenagers of both species can have sex freely with zero risk of unwanted children as long as it's interracial; that there's at least one lineage of keidran slaves specifically bred to be attractive sex-toys for humans; that there's a village were - by rumor - keidran and human interact as equals.
It's reasonable to conclude that, no matter what society in general may officially say about it, keidran/human sex is... ahem... not unusual. (Read: most teenagers and many young adults are [censored] like bunnies.)
So right now there are probably a LOT of young ladies of both races wondering why they are showing symptoms of pregnancy...
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Re: TwoKinds [of] data
You know the way i do these graphs makes its very easy to update them.Dadrobit wrote: ↑Mon Jan 21, 2019 12:45 pm I appreciate what you did with the popularity graphs, I'd definitely love to see other popular webcomic creators and their respective followings represented alongside it in the future. Tom looks good compared to the folks you've compared him to who are all more or less within their own same circle. I agree it would be unfair to pit them against content creators creating completely different content and media formats like Markiplier and/or Jim [censored] Sterling, but you can put them up against a following the likes of Jeph Jacques of Questionable Content at almost 7k patreons and 80k Twitter followers, and it does put Tom's pond into perspective.
(Interesting to note that QC and TK started only a month separated from one another)
As an aside, I'm always a little surprised seeing John Joseco so low at under 1k followers. HoS is up there for one of my favorites
Spoiler!
What you said pal!Warrl wrote: ↑Tue Jan 22, 2019 2:13 am We have no reason to believe that is the case. It doesn't even make much sense considering what Ephemural said - it's kind of rough hanging the existence of a race on ONE child that hadn't even been conceived yet. Particularly since the child would likely be ostracized by both parent races. And if Ephemural can change the rules enough to allow the one couple to create a hybrid, why not allow ANY couple of the same races to do so? That would make things a lot easier and more sure...
Meanwhile... we know that keidran culture and biology allow for teenager-equivalents to be a lot more sexually active than is typical of human cultures; that human teenagers often have contact with keidran teenager-equivalents; that it's generally known that keidran/human hybrids aren't possible, which means that teenagers of both species can have sex freely with zero risk of unwanted children as long as it's interracial; that there's at least one lineage of keidran slaves specifically bred to be attractive sex-toys for humans; that there's a village were - by rumor - keidran and human interact as equals.
It's reasonable to conclude that, no matter what society in general may officially say about it, keidran/human sex is... ahem... not unusual. (Read: most teenagers and many young adults are [censored] like bunnies.)
So right now there are probably a LOT of young ladies of both races wondering why they are showing symptoms of pregnancy...
However i would not put it past Ephemural to forget/omit turning the baby button "on" on everyone else. After that over-convoluted mess of a plan to use Flora for... uhm... something after making Trace break her heart. It is clear evil machinations ain't this guy forte. Even Willie Coyote had better plans, at least more straightforward, he just had to procure better hardware, but I digress.
On the other hand for what we knowi I am not sure if i would use the phrase "not unusual" but rather: a bit uncommon. There is still a whole lot of prejudice around.
I would suggest trying cybernetics, I think it is a more plausible way...NuclearBird wrote: ↑Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:04 am That timeline... I might have to look into vampirism as a solution to the longevity problem.
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Re: TwoKinds [of] data
Eh, I don't really see it as much of a "problem" per se. I think it's good to have this perspective. Especially when the original inquiry is about the comic's popularity, (and Tom by proxy) I think then it's more prudent to compare him to others within the webcomic spectrum that have active followings for their comics rather than general anthro artists that happen to be within his sphere of influence like Moom and kiit0s. No shade intended of course! I just think it's more relevant, and that the consistency of a webcomic and its ongoing story just generally begets a larger investment in the comic and artist by their viewers over someone who only does random commissions.Technic[Bot] wrote: ↑Wed Jan 23, 2019 4:08 am
You know the way i do these graphs makes its very easy to update them.
https://i.imgur.com/rIsaabY.png
Also i hope you see the problem. Now you can't see the others bars...
But if you have more data point suggestions I am all ears!
Other popular webcomics you may consider adding to the table off the top of my head:
Zach Weinersmith of SMBC. Twitter 103k Patreon 3368
Rick Griffin of Housepets. Twitter 11.5k Patreon 493
Jon Rosenberg of Goats and Scenes From A Multiverse. Twitter 18.5k Patreon 1094
Trudy Cooper and Doug Bayne of OGLAF. Twitter 35.7k Patreon 1641
Der-shing Helmer of Mare Internum and The Meek. Twitter 17.6k Patreon 757
Rich Burlew of Order of the Stick. Twitter 14.7k. No Patreon.
Randall Munroe of xkcd. Twitter 203k. RIP your graph. No Patreon.
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Re: TwoKinds [of] data
You ask and i shall graph!
You made me work this time, I no longer wanted to use the approximated follower count Twitter displays on its site so I scraped directly the API so now i have more precise numbers. And i changed the graphing library to get nicer bar plots:
Curiously enough I knew both xkcd and SMBC too. I am not a fan either but I am certainly aware of them. But I am not sure they are good comparisons, both thematically and stylistically to what Twokinds/Tom is: A serialized fantasy story with talking dog people that, hopefully, will eventually end. I find both xkcd and SMBC content to be closer to PhDComics, a strip about (post-)graduate school, and again that has little to do with Twokinds too. But it does give me a good excuse to add James Rolfe the AVGN to the graph so i am keeping them.
You do have a good point on comparing against webcomics in general. As I mentioned I am not well versed on webcomics, anthro art, or digital artist in general to pick good comparisons. And instead of doing proper research for the graphs i went the easy way and simply check wich artworks/artist could be directly found referenced by Twokinds. Shame on me!
Also that inserts a curious bias on the data, because lest be honets here, I don't think Tom would link to a more popular web-comic than his, that is simply bad marketing.
You made me work this time, I no longer wanted to use the approximated follower count Twitter displays on its site so I scraped directly the API so now i have more precise numbers. And i changed the graphing library to get nicer bar plots:
Spoiler!
You do have a good point on comparing against webcomics in general. As I mentioned I am not well versed on webcomics, anthro art, or digital artist in general to pick good comparisons. And instead of doing proper research for the graphs i went the easy way and simply check wich artworks/artist could be directly found referenced by Twokinds. Shame on me!
Also that inserts a curious bias on the data, because lest be honets here, I don't think Tom would link to a more popular web-comic than his, that is simply bad marketing.
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Re: TwoKinds [of] data
Is there some three graph limit coming up genie wish style?
You do bring up a very good point! Certainly within its own environment even the media classification "webcomic" has its own sub-classifications that create some rather extreme variance. Like you mentioned, gag-a-day comics are appreciably different compared to Tom's story based visual novel. Almost like Garfield to Batman I suppose.Technic[Bot] wrote: ↑Sun Jan 27, 2019 2:21 am But I am not sure they are good comparisons, both thematically and stylistically to what Twokinds/Tom is: A serialized fantasy story with talking dog people that, hopefully, will eventually end.
It makes sense then that those styles may attract a larger audience simply on format alone. Often they have characters who maintain their own recognizable traits and ideals, and that retains readership, but the format of gag-a-day means that every interaction is isolated, bite-sized, and manageable which is inviting for new readers. Those characters can largely be understood just by reading the last dozen or so strips, if that. The up front investment of reading through 2000+ pages is something of a requirement when coming into a story based comic like TK. I would imagine that that may increase fan commitment of those who run the gauntlet, but it is a bit of a barrier to entry decreasing the overall potential readership.
The shame is shared!
Even excluding marketing different comics, I think the author's style of Twitter engagement by itself introduces some serious complications. Folks like Tom and John Joseco largely use Twitter almost solely for marketing their own comic. But then you also have people like Jeph Jacques (Or Joseph depending on the graph lol) who also largely use Twitter as a platform just to speak their mind, garnering not only fans of the comics but also folks who've never even read them and simply agree with the authors' various opinions. It really obfuscates the data when trying to study the -Comic's- popularity.Technic[Bot] wrote: ↑Sun Jan 27, 2019 2:21 amAlso that inserts a curious bias on the data, because lest be honets here, I don't think Tom would link to a more popular web-comic than his, that is simply bad marketing.
Cue Avril Lavigne's "Complicated".
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Re: TwoKinds [of] data
No of course not! I am always eager to get more Topics to discuss in this little thread here and any inquiries or ideas are very welcome. Also since my system is now mostly automated i only need to write the twitter handles and the rests is automatic.
Indeed there is also the fact that this comic in particular is pretty old, by internet standard at least, so it has a leg up comparing to more recent comics/artwork. Now that you mention it there is the idea of intra-class similarity, meaning, in this case, how Tom compares to other fantasy webcomics preferably of similar style and themes regardless of followers, this lets us examine how relevant is TK among its peers, and then there is inter-class similarity, that is comparing all Twitters accounts with a similar follower numbers regardless of topic wich let us know how popular is Twokinds in a global scope, for example who would have thought Tom has more followers than Geoffrey Hinton one of the fathers of modern artificial intelligence?Dadrobit wrote: ↑Sun Jan 27, 2019 3:25 am You do bring up a very good point! Certainly within its own environment even the media classification "webcomic" has its own sub-classifications that create some rather extreme variance. Like you mentioned, gag-a-day comics are appreciably different compared to Tom's story based visual novel. Almost like Garfield to Batman I suppose.
It makes sense then that those styles may attract a larger audience simply on format alone. Often they have characters who maintain their own recognizable traits and ideals, and that retains readership, but the format of gag-a-day means that every interaction is isolated, bite-sized, and manageable which is inviting for new readers. Those characters can largely be understood just by reading the last dozen or so strips, if that. The up front investment of reading through 2000+ pages is something of a requirement when coming into a story based comic like TK. I would imagine that that may increase fan commitment of those who run the gauntlet, but it is a bit of a barrier to entry decreasing the overall potential readership.
The shame is shared!
Yeah again some more "insightful" data such as pageviews would be way more better alas you rarely have such high quality data "in the wild" and have to settle for whatever you can get you hand into to answers your question. And now that you mention it. Gauging the comic popularity is just one idea, something more interesting that I have been asking myself is: What is the probability of finding a TK reader on the general population? As you can imagine this is a very difficult question that i am pretty sure i can not answer but well a man can dream right?Dadrobit wrote: ↑Sun Jan 27, 2019 3:25 am Even excluding marketing different comics, I think the author's style of Twitter engagement by itself introduces some serious complications. Folks like Tom and John Joseco largely use Twitter almost solely for marketing their own comic. But then you also have people like Jeph Jacques (Or Joseph depending on the graph lol) who also largely use Twitter as a platform just to speak their mind, garnering not only fans of the comics but also folks who've never even read them and simply agree with the authors' various opinions. It really obfuscates the data when trying to study the -Comic's- popularity.
Cue Avril Lavigne's "Complicated".
( and yeah sorry the name thing was a typo...)
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Timeline Addendum
Adendum
Well I could have sworn i already posted this here but turns out it was most likely some dream.
Anyhow a couple months ago i posted the twokinds timeline which compared the time passage in real life, it was definitely a joke i took way too far. But still i thing there is potential there. So a couple weeks after I posted that Tom began doing some sketchest about Maddie and Maeve. Like this suggesting those two might end up together or that at least he liked the couple conceptually. A lot of people seemed to like the concept too. So o told myself:
So I did exactly that. I used the same methodology from before so I can compare it with real years. For a quick refresher I concluded, I am using the word very lightly now, that time in Mekkan runs 45 times faster than in real life.
That was fun wasn't it?
Well I could have sworn i already posted this here but turns out it was most likely some dream.
Anyhow a couple months ago i posted the twokinds timeline which compared the time passage in real life, it was definitely a joke i took way too far. But still i thing there is potential there. So a couple weeks after I posted that Tom began doing some sketchest about Maddie and Maeve. Like this suggesting those two might end up together or that at least he liked the couple conceptually. A lot of people seemed to like the concept too. So o told myself:
Myself wrote: Wouldn't it be interesting to graph that relationship? Specially since they age at different rate.
So I did exactly that. I used the same methodology from before so I can compare it with real years. For a quick refresher I concluded, I am using the word very lightly now, that time in Mekkan runs 45 times faster than in real life.
Spoiler! Without further ado:
Spoiler! Standard time
Spoiler! Basitin and Keidran
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Re: TwoKinds [of] data
I like your timelines, even though this one was a little grim.
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Re: TwoKinds [of] data
Sorry about that.
Believe it or not i made these thinks because i find it fun and i hope people may find it interesting and/or informative not to make people feel sad nor kill their favorite ship or anything.
But yeah lifespan difference is something usually overlooked in the comic yet the timeline puts it front and center. And at the end of the day, Keith, potentially Maddie and by extension Trace are gonna end up being pretty young widows. Which is indeed quite grim...
In any case i you want a bit more precision about the dates i compile the graph in tabular format:
Believe it or not i made these thinks because i find it fun and i hope people may find it interesting and/or informative not to make people feel sad nor kill their favorite ship or anything.
But yeah lifespan difference is something usually overlooked in the comic yet the timeline puts it front and center. And at the end of the day, Keith, potentially Maddie and by extension Trace are gonna end up being pretty young widows. Which is indeed quite grim...
In any case i you want a bit more precision about the dates i compile the graph in tabular format:
Spoiler!
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